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Rangefinder Photography Discussion General discussions about Rangefinder Photography. This is a great place for questions and answers that are not addressed in a specific category. Take note there is also a General Photography forum.

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Old 09-18-2011   #26
chris00nj
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Along with the aforementioned Rollefilex, Speed Graphic, and Leica M, the Fuji Quicksnap was first popular disposable camera.

Ditch the Sony Alpha: no different than any other DSLR.
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Old 09-18-2011   #27
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In spite of the fact that it was a film camera already struggling for survival in a digital world on it's release I would have been tempted to include the Nikon F6. That camera does as much as can possibly be done with film and deserves a place because of this IMO!
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Old 09-18-2011   #28
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I would take several cameras OFF of that list and DEFINITELY include the OM-1, the Spotmatic, Canon F-1, Kodac Retinas in all its forms, Contax IIa, etc
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Old 09-18-2011   #29
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But influence of 126 was a dead end. They came, they conquered, they died a prolongued, drawn out death as auto-loading 35mm cameras came on the market. And now, what legacy have they left? Lots of half used magicubes, and millions and millions of unuseable cameras.

The Instamatic's influence is ultimately trivial I think.
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Old 09-18-2011   #30
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I agree that the OM-1 is a significant camera but really it was only a refinement of what was already out there. Maitani's Pen series was probably more ground breaking with it's vision of a miniature SLR that maximised use of an available format with a unique design and high quality optics ... if any Olympus product deserves a place in this list it would be the Pen F for me!
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Old 09-18-2011   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSU View Post
Guess it good that I didn't mention the whole APS thing....
APS is something altogether different. However there is 110... which is also a dead format now.
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Old 09-18-2011   #32
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Right, the "instant" camera, the Polaroid. Maybe that camera had one of the greatest influences on photography as a medium. No darkroom (or inkjet printer), no 1 hr photo service, no nothing. Take your shot, and there's a photo in your hand a minute later. It's still magical just thinking about that, and it's been how many years since that camera was developed? Unfortunately, the less-than-stellar image quality, large and cumbersome cameras, and small print sizes kept it from running over all the other competition.
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Old 09-18-2011   #33
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Did not the Argus C-3 bring 35mm to the fore front?
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Old 09-18-2011   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunalegs View Post
But influence of 126 was a dead end. They came, they conquered, they died a prolongued, drawn out death as auto-loading 35mm cameras came on the market. And now, what legacy have they left? Lots of half used magicubes, and millions and millions of unuseable cameras.
Aside from the 'auto-loading' statement, could not the same be said for Polaroid cameras? Polaroid, while popular, really wasn't influential—in the sense that it spawned a bunch of copycat cameras or a branch of instant cameras. It was pretty much a proprietary formula that only Polaroid used. Kodak was certainly influenced by it—enough so to steal it and later be successfully sued.

Polaroid certainly had an IMPACT on photography—changing the way pros worked, etc. But influential?? Maybe if you can make a link between Polaroid and digital....



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Old 09-18-2011   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
Right, the "instant" camera, the Polaroid. Maybe that camera had one of the greatest influences on photography as a medium.
Spot on! Edwin had the vision...."Don't undertake a project unless it is manifestly important and nearly impossible."

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Old 09-18-2011   #36
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Quote:
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Maybe if you can make a link between Polaroid and digital.... /
Yes, Polaroid and digital give you instant gratification but with Polariod you also get the print!

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Old 09-18-2011   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayPA View Post
Aside from the 'auto-loading' statement, could not the same be said for Polaroid cameras? Polaroid, while popular, really wasn't influential—in the sense that it spawned a bunch of copycat cameras or a branch of instant cameras. It was pretty much a proprietary formula that only Polaroid used. Kodak was certainly influenced by it—enough so to steal it and later be successfully sued.

Polaroid certainly had an IMPACT on photography—changing the way pros worked, etc. But influential?? Maybe if you can make a link between Polaroid and digital....
Instant cameras are still around though. 126 and its little brother 110, are not.


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Did not the Argus C-3 bring 35mm to the fore front?
I think the Argus line in general did. Kodak tried to introduce 828 as a "consumer" 35mm film, but the success of the Argus line meant the 135 cartridge gained ground far more rapidly than 828. I think Kodak thought that the complexities of loading and rewinding film were going to be too much for casual photographers... this mindset lead to the eventual creation of 126 (126 BTW is essentially 828 film in a cartridge - 35mm wide, with a single indexing perf. per frame and paper backed). 126 did a pretty good job of killing off 120/620/127/616 etc. in the casual snapshooter market. But it still couldn't keep people away from 35mm.

Whether or not another company would have taken up 35mm like Argus did would only be speculation, but as it sits, there's no denying that they sold millions of 35mm cameras - and in doing so influenced many other companies to develop cameras for 135. So it is kind of silly I think not to have at least one Argus on a list of influential cameras.

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Once 35mm film is gone, how may hundreds of millions of unuseable cameras will there be?
Many more, made over a much longer period than those for 126. I think that pretty much says enough.
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Old 09-18-2011   #38
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This guy has obviously never been asked the eternal question - 'Is that a Hasselblad?'.
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Old 09-18-2011   #39
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I would have put these ones in there:

Canon ae1 - sold heaps of them, first program SLR
Sigma dp1/Olympus e-p1 - the beginning of the big sensor in compact digital camera revolution.
Canon 5d - the first affordable full frame 35mm DSLR, one of the most used professional DSLRs in the world.
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Old 09-18-2011   #40
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If you change your question to the 'most influential 35mm camera company of all time' I would say Olympus. They made more cameras that were great from entry level to prosumer with more innovation than any other company. Plus, they put great lenses in their low end cameras which the two big boys never did.
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Old 09-18-2011   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdigital View Post
I would have put these ones in there:

Canon ae1 - sold heaps of them, first program SLR
Sigma dp1/Olympus e-p1 - the beginning of the big sensor in compact digital camera revolution.
Canon 5d - the first affordable full frame 35mm DSLR, one of the most used professional DSLRs in the world.

I agree. EXCEPT:

Canon ae1 - sold heaps of them, first program SLR
Panasonic G1 - the beginning of the mirrorless, interchangeable lens, multi-mount digital camera systems
Canon 5d - the first affordable full frame 35mm DSLR, one of the most used professional DSLRs in the world.



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Old 09-18-2011   #42
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Quote:
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Canon ae1 - sold heaps of them, first program SLR
Small correction: AE-1 (1976) had shutter-priority AE but no program. AE-1 Program (1981) added program, but still no aperture-priority! World's first program-mode AE was Canon A-1 (1978) with all AE modes implemented.

Ref:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_ae1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_AE-1_Program
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_A-1
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Old 09-19-2011   #43
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The K1000 may not have been as absolutely great like the OM-1 or Nikon F but it was the entry level camera of its day. Some starving student somewhere probably took up photography because the K1000 was available.
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Old 09-19-2011   #44
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The first digital full frame should make it as well (was it a Nikon D3?)
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Old 09-19-2011   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuhi View Post
The first digital full frame should make it as well (was it a Nikon D3?)
As per wikipedia:

Contax N Digital (2002)
Canon EOS-1Ds (2002)
Kodak DCS Pro 14n (2003)
Kodak DCS Pro SLR/n (2004)
Kodak DCS Pro SLR/c (2004)
Canon EOS-1Ds Mark II (2004)
Canon EOS 5D (2005)
Nikon D3 (2007)

The 5d and 1ds were the first really popular ones, and really the first ones without some sort of major usability problem.
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Old 09-19-2011   #46
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Quote:
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The K1000 may not have been as absolutely great like the OM-1 or Nikon F but it was the entry level camera of its day. Some starving student somewhere probably took up photography because the K1000 was available.
You are probably right, I bought one for my son when he was in High School. He still uses it, and I like to use it when I visit. If you cut away all this firsts stuff; the K1000 may have been the most influential camera. At least in the last 50 years, some kind of Brownie probably for the 50 years before that.
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Old 09-19-2011   #47
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Old 09-19-2011   #48
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Influential to whom?

I'd like to understand whether the status of, say the Minolta, is because they happened to be first to market or if they had technology no one else did and therefore prompted them to develop it. If they hadn't produced this camera when they did would Canon or Nikon or Pentax have been the first to market? Were they being innovative in their design or only fortunate in their product launch timing?

On that basis the Nikon F must have a place as a game-changer in showing that an SLR worked as a replacement for the Rangefinders and TLR press cameras, which the earlier SLRs despite technological innovation did not. The F wasn't so much about being an SLR as a true professional-quality system camera. This would also lead to the inclusion of the Hasselblad system.

You could also argue that the Leica M3 was also influential as it prompted other manufacturers to develop alternative technologies as they couldn't replicate the Leica, even though it was something of a by-water in camera design.
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Old 09-19-2011   #49
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Well, I've know Jason for many years, and I've no doubt that he could (a) defend this at length and (b) give you a different list if you asked him the same question in a month's time.

The absence of the Autoreflex T (first auto-exposure SLR with focal plane shutter and interchangeable lenses) is obviously a major flaw; but then, when we were amiably arguing over this in the 80s, he said, "There's always some obscure Lithuanian tinsmith to whom you can point as the originator". We were talking about the (Hungarian) Gamma Duflex at the time, and the earlier patents for the Wrayflex.

Other obvious omissions are the Sanderson and the Rollei 35. He has his views; I have mine; and I doubt that either of us would claim that his list is indisputably superior.

Cheers,

R.
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Old 09-19-2011   #50
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What about the first compact SLR - the brilliant Olympus OM1, but hang on, isn't this a rangefinder forum? Most influential rangefinder cameras of all time, could be an all Leica list.
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