Which Zeiss Ikon Folder ? ? ? :)

[dcsang]

There's something strangely sexy about folders.
Ya, I know, call me weird, but I think they've got this awesome allure that makes them, well, sexy.

That said, I was wondering, as I browse the umpteen ebay auctions out there for Zeiss Ikon folders, which Zeiss Ikon folder would be recommended for a folder neophyte/fetishist?

I mean, there's the 6x4.5, the 6x6, the 6x9 etc. etc. but which one is the one that folks seem to feel would offer the "best bang for the buck"?

Oh.. and while I find these things so sexy and desirable, I'm not the neophyte/fetishist that's asking about this... nope.. not me.. not at all.. I'm too prim and proper for that sort of carnal stuff.... honest...

Cheers,
Dave

[pschauss]

My personal favorite is the Super Ikonta 530 (or 531)A. It is a 6x4.5 format and not significantly larger than a Barnack Leica.

[batterytypehah!]

Um, would that person mainly be interested in fondling, or actual picture-taking?

If the latter, I would start with the negative format to narrow down the choices. And bigger is not necessarily better there. A 6x9 chrome is a thing of beauty but sharpness to the corners can be a problem. Also gives you only 8 shots per roll.

[dcsang]

The person is more interested in picture taking.
Fondling is, while necessary, a secondary pleasure.

Dave

[hanskerensky]

When you just want to make splendid medium format photos i would suggest starting with a Zeiss Ikon 518/16 Nettar in good condition. This will teach you all the basics of folder photography for a bargain price.

When you talk about the sexy appearance of a folder you should take one of the big impressive Zeiss Super Ikontas ;-)

[batterytypehah!]

Okay, so here's my rough take on it. Just until ZeissFan can weigh in, of course.

Bare bones - Nettar
Better - Ikonta
Top of the line - Super Ikonta

Only the Supers are RF, of course. Post-war you typically start to see all kinds of film advance features, too. Nice if they work but inherently less reliable than in 35mm, because of the unperforated film.

No doubt you have noticed the price differences already.

Personally, I'm content with a Nettar for 6x9 because, really, I don't think any of these are particularly fast and easy shooters. So I use it for landscapes, on a tripod, stopped down to help the triplet lens. I don't miss the RF and working slowly like that I even remember to advance, most of the time.

[Borghesia]

I have a few Super-Type folder, like the Super-Isolette (great camera), Iskra and a Super Ikonta.
But the simple Zeiss Ikon Nettar 518/16 gave me refined graphical results.
This mint camera costed me only 15 euro's, but has proven to have its own specific character.


Zeiss Ikon Nettar 518/16, a Harbor in The Netherlands, No PS.

[batterytypehah!]

Forgot to mention that I wouldn't rate any Zeiss particularly sexy. Let's say you see Certo Dolly Super-Sport sitting in a bar with her friends Super Ikonta and Super Isolette. Which one would you want to pick up?

[ZeissFan]

I think the 6x6 folders are the best place to start, because they're the easiest to hold and easiest to use.

That includes a range of cameras from Nettars to Ikontas to Super Ikontas.

In general:

-- Nettars (zone focus) will have triplets (Novar or Nettar Anastigmat) in simpler shutters (Derval, Telma or Pronto and occasionally Compur)

-- Ikontas (zone focus) will have either a triplet (Novar) or a four-element Tessar in either a Pronto or a Compur. The Tessar with the Compur is considered the premium setup.

-- The Mess Ikonta 524/16 has an uncoupled rangefinder and either a coated Novar or a coated Tessar in a Synchro-Compur shutter. Can't recall if there also was one with a Pronto shutter. This is a body made of lighter-weight alloy. There is no autoframing. Film advance is accomplished by using the red window.

-- The Super Ikonta is divided into three groups (or four, depending ...).

First is the Super Ikonta B 530/16 with separate windows for focusing and composing. It always came with an uncoated Tessar and a Compur shutter. This introduced autoframing to the film advance and gave 11 shots on 120 film.

The second is the Super Ikonta B 532/16, which features a unified rangefinder/viewfinder and either an uncoated Tessar or a coated Tessar in a Compur shutter. It also gives 11 shots. A later variation of this body style is the Super Ikonta BX, which has a selenium meter housing. It's a honking big camera, and a change to the film advance yields 12 shots.

The third is the Super Ikonta III and IV, using the same body type as the Mess Ikonta. It has either a coated Novar or coated Tessar set in a Synchro-Compur shutter. The IV has a selenium meter. Both have coupled rangefinders, an autoframing film advance and give 12 shots on 120 film.

[ZeissFan]

By the way, all of the 6x6 Zeiss Ikon folders had a "/16" at the end of the model number.

No number for 6x4.5
xxx/16 = 6x6
xxx/2 = 6x9
xxx/18 = VP127 film
xxx/15 = 116 film
xxx/24 = 35mm

I don't know the number for plate film.

[hanskerensky]

Originally Posted by batterytypehah!

Forgot to mention that I wouldn't rate any Zeiss particularly sexy. Let's say you see Certo Dolly Super-Sport sitting in a bar with her friends Super Ikonta and Super Isolette. Which one would you want to pick up?

Absolutly right ! Would probably go for the Certo. I have a weak for these cute little folders like the Welta Weltax or the Voigtländer Perkeo 1.

[Solinar]

Originally Posted by ZeissFan

The third is the Super Ikonta III and IV, using the same body type as the Mess Ikonta. It has either a coated Novar or coated Tessar set in a Synchro-Compur shutter. The IV has a selenium meter. Both have coupled rangefinders, an autoframing film advance and give 12 shots on 120 film.

These two would be my choice for people photography. A lens coupled-RF and an auto-framing film advance speed up the composition process and readiness for subsequent exposures considerably.

For landscape and architectural work, I'm more partial to 6x9 even if it means forgoing the use of a coupled-RF and an automat type film advance. Here the medium format folder becomes a compact alternative to a field camera, with a good bit of slow, deliberative, tripod work.

My Agfa Super Isolette generally sees more use in town. In the back country, my Agfa Record III 6 x 9'er gets more use.

Also, unless you luck into a Mamiya Six - don't forget to tension the shutter before taking the shot.

[ethics_gradient]

For those of you in the know about Super Ikontas, is cleaning the viewfinder window something that can be done at home (and if so, where can I find directions)? The rangefinder patch is fine, but in general the viewfinder itself hazy as hell. It's useable, but not much fun. It's got a combined VF/RF window, but without flash sync.

[Nikon Bob]

I'll second the Super Ikonta 531. Great little take anywhere med format folder with coupled finder.

Bob

[ZeissFan]

Originally Posted by ethics_gradient

For those of you in the know about Super Ikontas, is cleaning the viewfinder window something that can be done at home (and if so, where can I find directions)? The rangefinder patch is fine, but in general the viewfinder itself hazy as hell. It's useable, but not much fun. It's got a combined VF/RF window, but without flash sync.

The Mess Ikontas (524/2 and 524/16) use mirrors, while the others used prisms.

I can't recall what the Super Ikonta III and IV used. Certain models require that you remove the eyepiece in order to remove the housing for the prism.

So, it depends on what model camera you have.

[hanskerensky]

Originally Posted by ethics_gradient

For those of you in the know about Super Ikontas, is cleaning the viewfinder window something that can be done at home (and if so, where can I find directions)? The rangefinder patch is fine, but in general the viewfinder itself hazy as hell. It's useable, but not much fun. It's got a combined VF/RF window, but without flash sync.

For the Super Ikonta III (531/16) have a look at 2 of my sets :

Removing the topcover :



A look at the Rangefinder :

[ethics_gradient]

Oops, mine's a 532/16. I'm guessing I'd need to remove the top leatherette to get to the VF window? If that's the case it's a no-go, I've still got a return option with the seller. (Was having a weird film fogging issue as well, first 7-8 frames of every roll were fogged, last 3-4 were fine)

[dave61]

With all the different types and styles of 120 folders out there-I have to ask-WHY does it HAVE TO be Zeiss Ikon? Have you considered an Agfa? A Voightlander? What about a 1940's Mamiya-6? Or, for something completely different, an Ensign Auto-Range or Selfix.
Why does everyone start out wanting a Zeiss?

[batterytypehah!]

Nah, it sounds like our man Dave is into black leather That plasticky stuff Agfa used for bellows is a turn-off.

And prone to pinholes, for the prim and proper argument.

[ZeissFan]

Originally Posted by dave61

Why does everyone start out wanting a Zeiss (Ikon)?

For one thing, they're plentiful and cover a wide range -- from lower-priced Nettars to the premium Super Ikontas.

The Zeiss Ikon cameras are well made and were intended to be serviced. That means disassembly is relatively easy.

I've found that the less expensive the camera was (and is), the more difficult they can be to service. Some camera makers used rivets rather than screws or snap rings rather than threaded collars, making it complex and sometimes impossible to disassemble a camera.

However, I agree that there are a lot of other cameras that shouldn't be ignored.

[thirteen]

Hi Dave - I have 4 folders - each have their +'s and -'s but at the end of the day I love each one!
- my first was a Franka Solida III - 6x6 - uncoupled rangefinder - coated Schneider lens
- then I got a Welta Weltax 6x6 - no rangefinder - coated Tessar lens - a really well-made camera - no depth of field scale (make your own)
- then I got a Voigtlander Perkeo II 6x6 - no rangefinder - coated Color Skopar lens - smallest of the bunch - auto film advance - very well made
- then I got a Zeiss Mess Ikonta 6x9 - huge negs - coated Tessar - uncoupled rangefinder - priciest of the bunch
I also got a Voigtlander rangefinder that can sit on the camera accessory thingy.

I got them all from Jurgen aka Certo6. His site has a wealth of info on folders. Great guy to deal with.
http://www.certo6.com/
I get my processing done at The Image Lounge in Markham - know the place?

If you want to see them/try them just let me know and we'll arrange something.

All the best
Dave

[dcsang]

Thanks again folks

Dave, I'm processing my own negs right now so thanks for the tip re: Image Lounge

The folder does not HAVE to be a Zeiss Ikon but the Zeiss one's I've seen are not only functional but sexy looking too .. the "Mac" of the camera world perhaps?

I currently have an old Braun Norca III folder. No rangefinder. Scale focusing. 6x6 or 6x9 but with a slow 105mm lens(f6.3)

Cheers,
Dave

[wlewisiii]

If I buy another folder, it will be a 6x4.5 Ikonta or 6x6 Mess Ikonta with Tessar & Compur. I'd want something more compact than my Bessa but lighter & less fragile than the Super Ikontas are at this point. An uncoupled RF is a nice thing; I only wish Zeiss had made a 6x4.5 Mess Ikonta as that would have been the best of all possibilities to me.

William

[FallisPhoto]

Originally Posted by dcsang

There's something strangely sexy about folders.
Ya, I know, call me weird, but I think they've got this awesome allure that makes them, well, sexy.

That said, I was wondering, as I browse the umpteen ebay auctions out there for Zeiss Ikon folders, which Zeiss Ikon folder would be recommended for a folder neophyte/fetishist?

I mean, there's the 6x4.5, the 6x6, the 6x9 etc. etc. but which one is the one that folks seem to feel would offer the "best bang for the buck"?

Just don't get the Ercona with the Tempor shutter. Tempors are junk. That said, the Prontor-S version is a nice camera. Another thing to consider is that the 6x4.5 format is close enough to the 35mm format that it is kind of disappointing if you are expecting a dramatic difference. Personally, I prefer the 6x9 format cameras. You only get 8 photos, but WHOA! If you do everything right, and if your camera is working like it should, the photos will knock your socks off -- especially if you're used to shooting 35mm or small format digital cameras.

Charles

[sahe69]

If small size is what you'd prefer I would suggest either a 6x4.5 Super Ikonta or Voigtländer Perkeo E (6x6, but w/ uncoupled rangefinder). If image quality/larger negs are higher in priority then go for a 6x9 Super Ikonta with an Opton-Tessar T-coated lens.