Non Konica lenses on Hexar RF... Yes? No?

[ksah]

Hi Gang,

many of you have much more experience with M lenses than I. What's the story here? Will the KM mount cause M lenses to front/back focus? I get conflicting info from the interwebs.

I'm thinking about getting a Nokton Classic 40mm f/1.4 and possibly other Leica glass, but I'm unsure putting them on a Hexar will work.

Any insight appreciated. Thanks!

SK

[rogers]

As a new user of a Hexar RF, I've had no problems with a CV Nokton 50mm f/1.5. Who knows what the truth is, but the information on the web seems kinda nebulous, suggesting that it may be based more on speculation than fact...

[ksah]

Thanks Rogers. I really want to believe this as it would make things easy. The Hexar is an awesome rf. It seems most on this forum are sticking to Konica lenses when using an Hexar RF...

Anyone else want to chime in?

Thanks

[pvdhaar]

When it comes to non-Konica lenses; I've used the CV25/4 and the CV90/3.5 on a Hexar-RF. Both focus fine, although for the 25/4 it's a bit of a cheat cause it's scale focus only. At least it indicated there's no gross error. The 90 is a better judge, and was spot on over the entire distance range (1.0m-infinity).

[Matthew Allen]

I wouldn't worry about it unless you start noticing consistent problems with a given lens. Have you read Dante Stella's views on the issue?:

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/hexarrf.html

(Dante, if you're reading this I hope you don't mind me quoting you.)

Most users do not know what they are looking for. Film-flange distance issues arise with fast wideangle lenses, generally of 21mm focal length and less. This is due to the fact that at infinity with these lenses, the lens travel front-to-back is much shorter. If the flange-film distance is a tiny bit longer, focus will fall well short of infinity. Problems with fast telephoto lenses close-up, where small changes in distance require large front-to-back lens movements, are more likely the result of rangefinder alignment problems. On any Leica-type rangefinder, whether labeled "Leica," or "Konica," accuracy decreases dramatically inside 1m, to the point where even Leicas do not focus Summilux 75s correctly at 0.7m.

A more technical explanation is here:

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/flange.html

I'm happily using my Leitz Summitar on my Hexar without problems but then it's not the sort of lens that would have issues anyway. As a bonus it even collapses fully into the body.

I think one reason Hexar RF users often use the M-Hexanon lenses is that they are a great deal cheaper than new Leica glass, and are generally recognised to be very good performers.

Matthew

[Keith]

I've used a variety of lenses on my Hexar without problems ... 50mm f1.5 Nokton, 35mm Nokton, 75mm Heliar, 50mm collapsable Sumicron, 50mm Canon f1.2 and a couple I can't think of at the moment. As said though with the excellent Hexanon lenses being so inexpensive it's not hard to own the dedicated lenses for this fine camera. I have 50mm and 35mm Hexanons which have become my most used lenses on all my M mount bodies. They're superb ... sharp, almost totally flare resistant and great build quality.

[Berliner]

Leica, ZM, CV on my Haxar RF--no problems at all. Ironically, the only M lenses I have not had on my Hexar Rf are the Konica ones...

[awilder]

A properly calibrated Hexar RF has no back focus issue with any M lens I've used regardless of brand. As long as it's rangefinder is in agreement with your other M body or it focuses properly at infinity, you'll be fine.

[furcafe]

Ditto. I've had no issues whatsoever using non-Konica lenses on my Hexar RF, which is a good thing because the only Konica lens I have is the 50/2 M-Hexanon.

Originally Posted by awilder

A properly calibrated Hexar RF has no back focus issue with any M lens I've used regardless of brand. As long as it's rangefinder is in agreement with your other M body or it focuses properly at infinity, you'll be fine.

[aizan]

no problems with the hexar rf and any of my nikkor and canon ltms, or leica m lenses.

[JonasYip]

35 lux ASPH, 50 lux, 28 cron, various VC... no problems...

j

[maddoc]

Noctilux, 35 Summilux pre-ASPH, Summicron-C, DR Summicron, Super-Angulon-M, Tele-Elmarit: all used without any problem

[ksah]

To all who have replied: Thank you!

I will ignore what I read on the web about non-konica lenses beign a problem with the Hexar.

Sk

[hlockwood]

Originally Posted by ksah

Hi Gang,

many of you have much more experience with M lenses than I. What's the story here? Will the KM mount cause M lenses to front/back focus? I get conflicting info from the interwebs.

I'm thinking about getting a Nokton Classic 40mm f/1.4 and possibly other Leica glass, but I'm unsure putting them on a Hexar will work.

Any insight appreciated. Thanks!

SK

Leica 35mm cron asph., no problem.

Harry

[johnbay]

I am a happy owner of a Hexar RF and have been using a CV Nokton 40mm f/1.4 for the past three years without any problems. Terrific lens.

[Issy]

I and Lutz Konnerman have seen it -- (Leica and Leica copy versus Hexanon lense). You probably read one of our threads on photo.net.

It is easy enough to tell, and something I do everytime I mount a lens on the Hexar RF... infinity check.

Set the lens to infinity, point at something at infinity, does the focus patch jive. I am not suggesting they all do, and evidence would bear out that they don't. But I have see it.

[amateriat]

Even though my main glass is my trio of M-Hex lenses (28/50/90), I've used a few very early Leica M-mount examples (3.5cm & 5cm) on my Hexars in the past without incident.


- Barrett

[furcafe]

Yes, but I don't believe that failure to reach infinity in the RF is restricted to the mounting of non-Hexanons on Hexar RF bodies. I've seen the same w/certain Leica & non-Leica lenses when mounted on different Leica M bodies, all of which are properly aligned, etc., e.g., I have some lenses that align @ infinity w/some bodies, but not w/others. My theory is that it has to do with what I would call the "accumulation of tolerances": a given lens or body may be within spec, but combined together, there's enough error or misalignment for something to be off. Bottom line w/me is that it has never proven to be a problem in real-world use, w/the exception of my 75/1.4 Summilux, which focuses properly on all of my M bodies except the M8, where it only focuses properly @ the minimum distance.

Originally Posted by Issy

I and Lutz Konnerman have seen it -- (Leica and Leica copy versus Hexanon lense). You probably read one of our threads on photo.net.

It is easy enough to tell, and something I do everytime I mount a lens on the Hexar RF... infinity check.

Set the lens to infinity, point at something at infinity, does the focus patch jive. I am not suggesting they all do, and evidence would bear out that they don't. But I have see it.

[kevin m]

The technical explanation is that the specs for the flange focal depth differ slightly between Leica and Konica. You would never experience the rumored "back focus" problems with anything but a fast, wide-angle lens, and then only if your camera was at the extreme limit of it's adjustment specs.

FYI, camera's back focus distances can change with age, temperature, etc.. With motion picture cameras, bodies are usually checked for spec with a micrometer when they come back from a job. Adjustments are made by removing the lens mount and adding/subtracting shims.

[Issy]

Actually, there are two "issues" that often get blurred into one.

1) flange distance --- film plane to lens mount plane distance...this is what Dante Stella talks about at length, and mentioned in the last reply. For me, I believe this is a non-issue.

2) Camming differences -- how the camming of the lens engages the lever that controls the patch alignment when you focus the lens. Lutz and I both felt that, at least on our Hexars, that there was either differences on how the caming interacted with a Leica lens versus the Hexanon, or how the cam/wheel on the camera engages each lens, or as someone pointed out, additive tolerances.

e.g. I put my Leica 35 on the Hexar RF, focused at infinity, set the horizontal alignment of the patch to be correct. If I then mount a 35 Hexanon and set it to infinity (based on lens scale), the patch is off.

My Hexar RFs are set up (patch aligned) for Leica lenses, and as long as I use Leica or Leica copy (i.e. VC), no issues. This is what I meant by "checking infinity" in my previous reply.

I know, and I stress, that there are others who have tried both "types" of lens and both sets are dead on with the patch. I have no idea why we were different.

Reference link here:
http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00DAzK

Bill

[Krosya]

I use 28, 50, 90 M-Hexanons, as well as CV Nokton 35/1.2 as well as several LTM lenses with Leica adapters - Canon 50/1.2, Summitar, J-9, Nikkor 105/2.5, etc on my Hexar RF. I also used ZM Planar 50, Rigid Summicron, current Summicron 50, Leica Fat TE 90 on it and never had any issues with patch/focus. Go figure.

[thegadsby]

Hi there

have Leica M's Hexar Rf and RD-! also approx 15 LM mount lens including F2.0 LM

never had any rangefinder issues with any of the lens body combinations

Remember that the Leica Mafia cannot contemplate any other camera or lens being in same league as the great God Leitz!!! so the always try and find some suprious argument to put you off buying a substitute for the original.

I of course think that Leica make some of the best RF equipment but the heaxar RF Epson and ZM and VM equipment is in the same league.

Ignore most of the items posted by the Leica mafia and have a go with the RF its a superb bit of kit and lens are very fine. Get a better lens hood for the 50 f2.0 as the pull out is too short but quality is of the best.

John

[Never Satisfied]

I've had 2 Hexar RFs, the 1st had major focus issues with any lens other than the supplied Hexanon 50mm as did the Hexanon lens on other M bodies, ie a matched set. My second body was brilliant with any lens i fitted to it. Andrew

[Bobfrance]

No problems here.
I've used 40mm Rokkor, various VC lenses and the Zeiss Planar.

And I'm still yet to find a camera I like using better.

[rocheung]

I have used my VC , CZ, Konica 50 F1.2 all Leica M lens even the Elmar C 90 on my RF, no problem was found so far.