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120 / 220 film RF's 120 / 220 format rangefinders including Fuji, Koni-Omega, Mamiya Press, Linhof 6x7/6x9 cameras, Mamiya 6/7 among others, but excluding the 120 folders and the Voigtlander 667 cameras that have their own forums.

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Old 02-18-2008   #41
tripod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Lime
I'll take one of the 6x7 models, but I would really love to see a miniature 6x4.5 version. Now that would be a camera you could stick in your jacket pocket. 16 shots per roll is great for traveling.
Fuji has already made this camera: the GS645. Replace the original bellows, and there you go. Great lens, rangefinder, meter, and viewfinder.

I'm excited about the 6x7 format, as I rarely print square, and 645 is just 1/2 frame in 120. That's a great travel camera since you're bound to carry a bag with travel stuff anyway.
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Old 02-18-2008   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pvdhaar
Indeed, the more expensive it becomes, the less film they'll sell for it..
Exactly. Eventually you have to ask the question, "Look, do you want more people to buy your camera or not?"

I get irritated these days when I think of Leica, the Epson RD1 and Nikon's limited run of their new S3. All have contributed to making it a norm that any camera other than an SLR will now command an exorbitant premium and in the case of the RD1 and S3, be of so limited a production run that even many willing people won't have time to think about saving up for one before they're all sold and start commanding even more exorbitant premiums on eBay.

The whole thing stinks of an appalling shortsightedness and lack of confidence, even in the face of strong sales. As I read, Nikon's reincarnated S3 flew off the shelves. Epson's unique RD1 got terrific reviews stateside even though it wasn't being officially sold here. I don't know any figures about Epson's sales, but has anybody heard about unsold RD1 stock being put on firesale because nobody wanted them? I didn't think so.

Cosina might not be getting rich off their Voigtländer bodies and lenses, but they're several generations of product in and still selling away. They've got the market for reasonably-priced 35mm rangefinders in current production zipped up since <i>nobody else is doing it.</i>

Fuji, if you're out there, please, look to Cosina's example and actually plan to make a camera you intended to sell to many people over many years instead of a handful over one or two years.
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Old 02-18-2008   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oftheherd
Good grief sitemistic, howdid they do that? They are't making any new cameras (yet anyway). Most of their film line should long since have amortized and be returning pure profit. How much is 43 Billion yen in dollars? 10 billion at least I would suppose.
http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/i...ort/index.html
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Old 02-18-2008   #44
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I really do hope the camera happens.

It does suprise me, however, that a camera like this could hit the market after so many years. Especially when the availability of film seems to be so iffy. I hope there isn't some market speculation of some sort happening and we won't ever see the thing hit the market.

So, I wait.
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Old 02-18-2008   #45
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If Fuji decides to build this camera, heck even if they are thinking about it, the future of film can't be too bleak. We're not talking incompetent Kodak here, this is Fuji. That's the way I see it.
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Old 02-18-2008   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripod
If Fuji decides to build this camera, heck even if they are thinking about it, the future of film can't be too bleak. We're not talking incompetent Kodak here, this is Fuji. That's the way I see it.
I hope this is true.

Think "Fuji Folder" really really hard.
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Old 02-18-2008   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripod
IWe're not talking incompetent Kodak here, this is Fuji. That's the way I see it.
What? AFAIK, Kodak makes money on film, not loses money. Yes the profit from film is dropping, but they have even invested in more R&D (note the recent new emulsions, and don't be surprised if you see more) and rejigged production to concentrate all film coating in a hyper-modern, efficient facility here in Rochester. Film is still a cash cow for Kodak that helps support the pathetic margins on digital products.

If Fuji is bleeding cash from film, then it's likely because Kodak "owns" the motion picture film market. And there's no denying that motion picture is keeping analog film alive.

I hope Fuji makes this camera. I'll load it with TMY-2.

Edit: If you look at the Imaging Division portion of Fuji's annual report here, my reading is that the Imaging Division lost the Y43B, not film. The imaging division includes digital imaging products, and there was bleeding there. Colour film declined in sales volume, but colour paper volume and market share was up. The way I read it, colour analog products still made money.

Is this the Y43B you were referring to, sitemistic?
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Last edited by Trius : 02-18-2008 at 17:30.
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Old 02-18-2008   #48
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Fuji's folder idea may be a sound one; there doesn't seem to be a huge enough surplus of MF rangefinders out there to cause prices to fall. And if there is a reason for that it must be that users of MF rangefinders aren't stopping using film. Is there another possible explanation? I think the company's explanation for considering it holds at least some water.
As for Fuji's losses, the only area the report shows as having grown within the imaging division is color paper and chemistry sales.
Looking at that report, it says nothing about B+W film. Why? Is that not part of the imaging division, or was something lost in a translation?
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Old 02-19-2008   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce
As for Fuji's losses, the only area the report shows as having grown within the imaging division is color paper and chemistry sales.
Looking at that report, it says nothing about B+W film. Why? Is that not part of the imaging division, or was something lost in a translation?

Color paper is used as digital output media for Frontiers and Noritsus. So it doesn't say that analogue is still alive when Crystaljet paper sales increase. Fuji sells Epson printers as well and Fuji-Hunt has a large catalog of digital media. Fuji is also in the sign printing business that is now 80% digital. I thought 5 years ago a 6x9 folder produced in China at a quality like an Iskra would be nice as a stop gap solution to wait for that ultimate digital rangefinder. The last isn't still there but the folder is too late.


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Old 02-19-2008   #50
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That annual report notes that Fujifilm's loss in the imaging division is "mainly due to structural reform charges. Excluding these charges...operating income grew CONSIDERABLY to 17.5 billion yen, a LARGE increase of 15.8 billion yen year on year."

Translation: they are writing down equipment, consolidating operations and maybe laying some people off, but still have a very positive cash flow in the imaging division. The same is true in the '06 annual report: a large operating profit against which they've taken some large write-downs.
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Old 02-19-2008   #51
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