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Leica 90/f2.8 or CV 75/f2.5?
Old 11-30-2007   #1
Paul Jenkin
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Leica 90/f2.8 or CV 75/f2.5?

This might not look like a match on paper but the focal length difference doesn't bother me. Should it? Anyway, for about the same money, I can get a s/hand Elmarit 90/f2.8 (in optically perfect condition) or a Voigtlander 75/f2.5.

Clearly, there'll be a difference but I suspect they'll both be brilliant lenses. I currently have an M6 with a Canadian Leica Summicron-M 35/f2 and a CV Ultron Asph. 28/f1.9.

If you were in my shoes and had £300 (US$600) which would you go for? Is there a better choice for the same money? I want to use it for portraits (candid and posed) and landscapes.

PS - anyone got any suggestions as to what would be a decent bag (that doesn't shout 'I've got a load of expensive camera gear in me' to haul an M6, 3 lenses and half a dozen rolls of film?

Your advice and suggestions would be gratefully received.

Thanks. Paul.
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Old 11-30-2007   #2
Uwe_Nds
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Paul,
Did you consider a M-Hexanon 90/2.8?
I like mine very much.

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Old 11-30-2007   #3
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Hi Paul,

Quote:
If you were in my shoes and had £300 (US$600) which would you go for?
I've been in similar shoes and I went for a CV 75/2.5 (used on my M6), and I love it.
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Old 11-30-2007   #4
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I've owned both the 75mm Heliar and the 90mm Elmarit-M (also used with an M6, and also alongside a 28mm Ultron and 35mm Canadian 'cron). The Heliar was a really nice lens, but the 75mm frames on the M6 are no fun at all to use and, to be honest, the Elmarit was just a better lens, so that's the one I kept. It's fiercely sharp even wide open, and has a beautiful character to it. Elmarit example (excuse the ropey festival crowd subject matter!):

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Old 11-30-2007   #5
ferider
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The Elmarit. Not because the Heliar is a bad lens (it is a great lens),
but because I dislike the M6 75mm framelines.

However: I have the same lenses/camera as you: consider
a faster 90 to match the 35/2 and Ultron. Like the Summicron 90/2 v3.
Or maybe even a fast 50mm like the Nokton - works well for landscapes
and portrait.

Best,

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Old 11-30-2007   #6
J J Kapsberger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_phillip
.....to be honest, the Elmarit was just a better lens...and has a beautiful character to it
I did a side-by-side test of the two lenses in question, and Mr. Phillip has it right--the Elmarit-M 90/2.8 is in a league above the CV Heliar 75/2.5 (not to say that the Heliar is a bad lens; it certainly isn't). What I love about the Elmarit is its very high acutance which, along with its relatively shallow DOF, can make a subject float.

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Old 11-30-2007   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J J Kapsberger
I did a side-by-side test of the two lenses in question, and Mr. Phillip has it right--the Elmarit-M 90/2.8 is in a league above the CV Heliar 75/2.5 (not to say that the Heliar is a bad lens; it certainly isn't). What I love about the Elmarit is its very high acutance which, along with its relatively shallow DOF, can make a subject float.
Which version ? The E46 version is optically significantly different from the
E39 version. I also doubt the E46 version can be had for US 600.
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Old 11-30-2007   #8
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EDIT to remind myself: Self, engage brain before shooting off fingers on keyboard.

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Last edited by venchka : 11-30-2007 at 14:09.
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Old 11-30-2007   #9
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I only have the cv; it's OK

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Old 11-30-2007   #10
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What the heck, I'll tackle the less glamorous (I have no experience with either lens) and more contentious bag recommendation...

I bought a Crumpler 5 million dollar house and cut the Crumpler logo off it. In black it looks pretty much like everyone's little sling bag so it definitely doesn't get much attention. The padding inside is good and I find it perfectly fits my RF plus three lenses, film and a notebook.

I also grabbed a couple of sheets of this cool wrap stuff. I wrap a sheet around the camera with attached lens and another around a 2nd lens (different colours help me know which is which). Then I throw both in any bag I want with some loose film and voila I have an instant camera bag without any fuss. I actually use this solution more often if I am going out to shoot since the camera will generally be around my neck/wrist so I only need something to wrap the alternative lens.
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Old 11-30-2007   #11
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In my view, the best small, unobtrusive camera bag for a Leica M with a couple extra lenses, some film, filters, etc., is the Domke F-5XB. Lots of discussion and pictures of it on this site if you want to do a search.

As for which lens to get, that's a tougher one. First of all, it depends upon what you want to use the lens for, where you typically shoot, etc. And yeah, Roland is right that the 75mm framelines are small on the M6. But the 75 is perhaps a closer fit or smaller jump from the 28 and 35mm lenses that you already have. But then, if you're primarily a 28/35 shooter and only want a longer lens for significant reach, perhaps a 90 is a better length for you (in which case I would also push you to consider the Hexanon M 90/2.8). Guess what I'm saying is the starting point is what focal length is right, and only then worry about which lens to get. Of course, venchka has made you a mightly sweet offer so that's definitely something to consider. The good news overall is that you can't go too far wrong with any of the lenses you're considering or are being proposed and you can generally sell them here for what you paid so you aren't really risking much to try things till you get where you want to be.

Good luck,
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Old 11-30-2007   #12
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Sparrow,

That is way more better than OK.
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Old 11-30-2007   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferider
Which version ? The E46 version is optically significantly different from the
E39 version. I also doubt the E46 version can be had for US 600.
Good point. Mine's the E46 version (i.e., current). If I had $600 to spend and had to 'settle' for the CV Heliar 75/2.5, I'd hardly be suicidal.

Love your shots, Monz.
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Old 11-30-2007   #15
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WOW...!! That's a heck of a lot of extremely interesting and helpful guidance, guys. I'm still not 100% sure what to do but, despite the stunning photo (and model) posted by Sparrow, the consensus seems to be that the 75mm bright lines are less than good. Maybe that discounts the CV 75mm. Maybe.

I would like to get an f2 (or very close) to match the Cron and the Ultron - but a Leica in good order is probably at bit of a stretch at the minute.

L39UK's link to Ebay looks very interesting (I prefer the finality of a 'buy it now' price. At least you know what you're up against and whether you're getting a bargain. However, my M6 is black (I know, I know, it makes no difference....!) and I'd rather go for a lens to match. It is mighty tempting, though.

I'm not familiar with the Hexanon lenses but will defer to your individual and collective greater knowledge than mine.

Mr Phillip and JJ Kapsberger might have swung the day (at least for now) as the photos they posted as well as those from Monz Ahmed, are enviable to say the least. If I can get my hands on something that will turn in a performance like that (and then learn to use it) I will be a very happy man.

I'll check out the Domke and Crumpler bags. I don't mind having a bit of colour - but I've got a few Lowepros that I use for my Nikon DSLR gear and just want something I can commute with and that won't instantly mark me out as a photographer.

Thank you again for all your assistance and if anyone has anything further / different to add, I'm a willing listener.

Best wishes. Paul.
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Old 11-30-2007   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jenkin
I'll check out the Domke and Crumpler bags. I don't mind having a bit of colour - but I've got a few Lowepros that I use for my Nikon DSLR gear and just want something I can commute with and that won't instantly mark me out as a photographer.

Best wishes. Paul.
Ah, in that case I would recommend you check out the Domke 803 bag. Looks like a slightly undersized satchel rather than a camera bag. Lots of folks on this forum use it as their daily carry bag to/from work. Here's a link to a discussion of it on this forum: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ead.php?t=2284

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Old 11-30-2007   #17
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Hi Paul,

Quote:
Mr Phillip and JJ Kapsberger might have swung the day (at least for now) as the photos they posted as well as those from Monz Ahmed, are enviable to say the least.
No disrespect intended to those fine folk, but you absolutely cannot judge a lens from a very small jpeg image posted in an online forum - you need to see what it looks like full frame, full resolution. And don't be swayed by a seductive subject - that tells you nothing about the lens.
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Old 12-01-2007   #18
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Hi Paul,

Optical qualities aside, you might find 28-35-75 a better balanced set than 28-35-90.

Happy shooting,

Dirk
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Leica 90/f2.8 or CV 75/f2.5?
Old 12-01-2007   #19
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Smile Leica 90/f2.8 or CV 75/f2.5?

They say a week's a long time in politics. Well, here I am a few hours after posting my query and having just agreed to acquire a............CV 75f2.5

Only time will tell whether I've bought the right lens but (a) at the price it was offered second-hand and (b) bearing in mind the comment made that I could probably re-sell it for about what I paid for it, I'm going for it as it looks like a bargain.

Thank you all so much for your help and advice and I hope to post some results from it in due course.

Best wishes. Paul.
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Old 12-01-2007   #20
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If you decide to change your mind, I have a nice Elmarit for sale well within your price bracket and it's in the UK.

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Old 12-01-2007   #21
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Hi Kim and thanks for the note. As I've already done the deal and made arrangements to pick the lens up tomorrow morning, I must honour that commitment. I'm also trying to convince myself that the 75mm bright line issue won't be an issue and that the 28/35/75 combination makes more sense than 28/35/90......
Kind regards.
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Old 12-01-2007   #22
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Hi Paul,

congratulations, it is optically a really good lens - I have never read
a negative comment about it. Plus it fits the 35/2 real well.

If the framelines bother you, I can recommend you add the external CV 75mm
finder which is 1:1 and great quality.

Best,

Roland.
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Old 12-01-2007   #23
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Cheers Roland. I'm really pleased with the prospective purchase and, so long as it is in as good condition as advertised, I'll be pleased to use it.

With everything in life, I'm more interested in what it produces than the brand name. That said, I get the impression when you're comparing lenses of the quality of Leica, Voigtlander, Hexanon, etc. it'd be difficult to pick a bad one - it's just shades of excellence...!

The good news is that as a second-hand lens, I won't be tempted to 'baby' it. It will certainly see some use and I'm determined to improve my approach to and execution of street portraiture. There definitely seems to be an art to it...

Best wishes. Paul.
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