Leica M8 Test Dead On

[POINT OF VIEW]

Popular Photography did a Leica M8 lab test. P.H Feb. 07. I cant believe there is no mention on the magazine cover. Here is one of the most innovative designed products in this century, and they bury the article in the middle of the magazine, page 58. With all of that said, being a M8 owner, the article is right on. The only thing I find that is not a issue for me, is the purple cast on black, in low light. They did say they used a preproduction M8 for there first test. It’s not clear to me if the test included the, preproduction and production, or just the production. There is a big difference between the Nov. 06 M8, and the 07 production model. I use a prototype model in Oct. 06. The M8 camera I received Jan. 07, is noticeably improved over the preproduction. I tend to shoot low light, hand held. With a Noctilux lens on a M8, setting the camera at B&W at ISO, 2500, nothing can come close to it’s performance, in low, almost no light. I swear, it seams as though it adds light to the lens. By no means is this a camera for the masses. Any photographer that wants automation and auto focus and programmed settings would think, this camera is a antique. If you don’t want to buy the PH mag. Go to www.PopPhoto.com. Bill

[jlw]

I also thought this was a very good overview for the person who might be interested in an M8 but somehow missed all the Internet controversy. (I guess there are people who spend most of their time taking pictures instead of reading websites about picture-taking topics! In fact, sometimes I wish I were one of them...)

The report does a good job of summarizing all the things about the M8 that would appeal to someone who likes RF cameras, but it's hardly a valentine -- the concluding paragraph is brutally frank.

I wish they had tested it with more lenses, though. And in the old, more technical days of Pop, they wouldn't have just noted that the EXIF data doesn't include the f/stop "for some reason"... they would have explained the reason (which is that the lenses don't have an aperture coupler, and there's no way for a working aperture meter system to determine the f/stop without either information from the lens or a non-TTL reading as a reference.)

[jaapv]

Indeed a very fair test.

[furcafe]

I agree re: the review, but have to @ least partially disagree w/you re: your statement below. In my experience, in the noise department (not that noise, or lack thereof, is everything), the M8 (firmware v. 1.09) lags behind not only the Canon 5D @ ISO's above 800, but even the Epson R-D1 & the Nikon D200. IMHO, the M8 does very well @ ISO 640, & is decent @ 1250, but I would only use the 2500 as a last resort (yes, I have a Noctilux, so it's not like I need to go there everyday, but I am forced to shoot w/ISO 3200 film regularly). That said, a lot of my low light shooting is under stage lights & similar environments w/a lot of IR-heavy incandescent lighting, so perhaps my free B+W 486 filters (when they arrive) will improve things.

I wish Leica made @ least 2 different versions of the M8: the current version for daylight shooters & an "available darkness" model w/an IR cut filter on the sensor & improved noise reduction (perhaps in consultation w/Fuji, Nikon, etc.).

Originally Posted by POINT OF VIEW

I tend to shoot low light, hand held. With a Noctilux lens on a M8, setting the camera at B&W at ISO, 2500, nothing can come close to it’s performance, in low, almost no light. I swear, it seams as though it adds light to the lens. Bill

[Richard Marks]

I agree this article is a nice overview, but there really is noting here that is new or original. The 4 pictures arent that inspiring either!

[Athena]

A good review in "Pop Photography"?

Wow, isn't that surprising (ironically speaking of course)?

Have you ever seen a bad review in Pop Photo?

That magazine is a bigger sl*t than Aphrodite!

BTW: anyone notice how the thread starter joined here in December - shortly after the M8 "problems" arose.

How many shills are on this site anyway?

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by Athena

How many shills are on this site anyway?

You've come to save us. Why don't you tell us every single step of the way, old buddy?

[TJV]

I haven't read the review yet but I can say that since being reunited with my M8 on Tuesday I have indeed noticed a good increase in performance, both in colour reproduction and digi noise. IR is still a massive issue so I can't really do anything important with the camera yet, but JR's profiles are working wonders on files I've shot for fun, and I'll shoot with it in conjunction with my M7 until the free filters arrive. I received the letter from Leica yesterday and the prices I got were the wrong, VAT inclusive prices. But I knew that seeing as I already received an e-mail about it from M8 Support. If had no warning, I'd be seriously annoyed! I emailed the Leica people here in NZ to see if something can be done to enable me to use credit owing to me at my local shop on a new lens instead of having to order it from Germany. We'll see. But, back on topic, I think this camera will be a really good tool once the filters and firmware have landed and I can trust the colours. Until then, I reserve my final judgement on quality. If only if had of been returned to me with a cloth shutter... The shutter noise bothers me, but I can live with it. That's really my only complaint at the moment.

Tim

[jlw]

Originally Posted by Athena

A good review in "Pop Photography"?
Wow, isn't that surprising (ironically speaking of course)?
Have you ever seen a bad review in Pop Photo?
That magazine is a bigger sl*t than Aphrodite!
BTW: anyone notice how the thread starter joined here in December - shortly after the M8 "problems" arose.
How many shills are on this site anyway?

Well, I guess we have to expect someone who sprang fully armored from Zeuss's brow to be a bit cranky. Talk about birth trauma!

Still, while I can't vouch for the original poster, I agree that it was a useful and frank review -- and I think I've been on here long enough and have posted enough stuff to qualify as NOT a shill.

As to "bad" (I assume you mean negative) reviews in Pop Photo, well, I don't recall their ever saying something absolutely s*cks... but they've always said that if a camera just plain doesn't work or isn't minimally acceptable, they just don't publish a test on it. Yeah, you could say it would be more frank to publish a detailed review saying "The _____ was a piece of junk that didn't work to begin with and then fell apart"... but on the other hand, why waste magazine space on that? If they publish a test, you can assume that the camera is at least minimally usable, and if they don't, well, then, you're on your own.

And when you come right down to it, while I've seen lots of cameras with what I considered to be ill-conceived features or indifferently-designed controls, I can't think of any mainstream cameras I've owned or seen in recent years that were just plain unusable junk. We've come a long way from the days of the Finetta 99 or the Pigeon 35, for example -- cameras that either couldn't make a decent picture right out of the box, or were likely to break at any time.

In fact, I'd say the M8 review was one of the more tart ones I've read in Pop in recent years. For those who haven't read it either in the magazine or on the website, they describe the camera, discuss how it works (warts and all -- they explicitly note such points as its lack of weather sealing, low magnification, and easily-smeared LCD), evaluate its performance both quantitatively and qualitatively (including a concise discussion of the IR, banding and ghosting issues and Leica's fixes for them) and then make a general conclusion.

It's in this concluding note especially that Pop shows its backbone a bit, noting that the need for IR cutoff filters "raises a serious question" about the camera, and concludes that "at nearly $5,000 for just the M8 body, that question shouldn't have to be asked." I'd call that both fair and pretty darn astringent for a mainstream magazine!

[jlw]

I cant believe there is no mention on the magazine cover.

There's a big banner right across the front cover, reading "M8 TEST: REAL LEICA OR REAL LEMON?"

However, you can only see it when you look at the magazine through an infrared cutoff filter...















...put your 486 filters away, people, I was only joking!

[POINT OF VIEW]

After 50 years of pressing a shutter button, I finally received a back handed compliment. To be accused of being a shill, of course means somehow I’m on the Leica payroll. You have no idea how I would like to make that claim, to be true. Unfortunately being a retired machinists, the only connection I have with Leica, is sending them most of what little money I have left. One finale small point, to whom it may concern. I am new to the M8 thread because the M8 is new, dah. I probably sound over enthusiastic because at my age the only thing I get excited about is a new Leica. Thank you Shill Bill

Originally Posted by Athena

A good review in "Pop Photography"?

Wow, isn't that surprising (ironically speaking of course)?

Have you ever seen a bad review in Pop Photo?

That magazine is a bigger sl*t than Aphrodite!

BTW: anyone notice how the thread starter joined here in December - shortly after the M8 "problems" arose.

How many shills are on this site anyway?

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by jlw

Well, I guess we have to expect someone who sprang fully armored from Zeuss's brow to be a bit cranky.

RMAOF!

That's usually why I utter "O meu Zeus!" (a tongue-in-cheek blend of Latin and Portuguese)

[Athena]

Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.

You've come to save us. Why don't you tell us every single step of the way, old buddy?

Salvation is not something I can offer you. Perhaps you are one who comes from a culture that believes that mortals can become immortal?

But what do you mean by "old buddy"? We are not familar with each other, are we? I have not been on this site so long as to know you - and our photography interests do not seem to agree so we share no need to become aware of each other.

One need not look too far into the future to see that your M8 will languish in a closet somewhere.

Oh, yes, I sprang from the head of Zeus, complete and perfect; unlike the M8 which sprang from a desparate Solms and is nowhere near perfect.

[back alley]

i have to admit that i'm losing my sense of humour with these m8 threads.

[MikeL]

Originally Posted by Athena

Salvation is not something I can offer you. Perhaps you are one who comes from a culture that believes that mortals can become immortal?

But what do you mean by "old buddy"? We are not familar with each other, are we? I have not been on this site so long as to know you - and our photography interests do not seem to agree so we share no need to become aware of each other.

One need not look too far into the future to see that your M8 will languish in a closet somewhere.

Oh, yes, I sprang from the head of Zeus, complete and perfect; unlike the M8 which sprang from a desparate Solms and is nowhere near perfect.

Athena, I think you missed his point that you recently joined as well. Given the tone of some of you posts, are you a regular on photo.net Leica forum?

[Athena]

Originally Posted by MikeL

Athena, I think you missed his point that you recently joined as well. Given the tone of some of you posts, are you a regular on photo.net Leica forum?

Mike,

No, not at all. I do not spend anytime at all on that website. I am neither a pro nor anti-Leica troll.

I simply have observed what has been written here.

Only a small group seem to opine regularly in favor of this camera. And they do so in multiple threads - on and on and on.

Personally, I do prefer film cameras; but I also use both a D-100 and D-70, as well as an aging Canon digiP&S. I've never needed to place an IR filter on any of them to shoot black fabrics (natural or synthetic) and they do not exhibit banding nor excessive noise at 800 ISO.

Oh, and all of these cameras are technologically much older that the M8 and none of them, when new, cost anything close to USD$ 5,000.

Leica has made a very large, potentially make-or-break gamble on the M8. And it is not surprising that website such as this are essential to its marketing effort.

With that, I'll respect the moderator's concerns and no longer post to this thread.

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by back alley

i have to admit that i'm losing my sense of humour with these m8 threads.

I understand. I've said it before, the M8 threads bring the PNut out in virtually everyone.

So Barney walks with an M8 into a bar...

[Sailor Ted]

Originally Posted by Athena

Oh, yes, I sprang from the head of Zeus, complete and perfect

New pics coming soon from my recent trip to Las Vegas all shot on that POS the Leica M8. Now dear sweet and temperate Athena please do tell us all how it's only a few who support the Leica M8 and how you are not a constant Leica M8 Troll (especially how you do not cast consistent dispersion on other peoples positive M8 threads.) Oh and I love how Leica used to be affordable (according to the all knowing and all powerful Athena) since Leica’s never (before now) cost 5k. Ever heard of "current value adjusted for inflation?" Perhaps you can catch this radical new concept on next weeks “The View.”

[Richard Marks]

I joined this site as I am about to take delivery of my M8 and thought it might be a good place to discuss this very new and exiting camera with others, and possibly along the way contribute my own experiences. I can not understand why people who neither have an M8 nor are considering aquiring one have any interest in posting here. The clue is in the name "Digital M8 discussions" Surely they could derive more pleasure from chatting with those who share similar interests?

Should we set up a domain for "camera insults" whereby one can present their photographic equipment for public abuse. It could be very entertaining and possibly more satisfying for some. Another alternative would be to go and take some pictures and post them for the mutual enjoyment of others.

[HAnkg]

There are trolls who's mission in life is getting a rise out of people via over the top, personal vitriol. Responding to their idiocy only encourages them. Best to carry on the conversation as if they where not there. They tend to go away when they can't stir up any crap. Life is to short to allow yourself to get aggravated by flamebait.