SP 2005 LAST FILM Nikon ??

[CameraQuest]

just realized something folks.

As you probably know, the Nikon One of 1946 was the first Nikon camera -- film of course.

Am I correct in believing the Nikon SP 2005 was not only the LAST Nikon rangefinder, but also the LAST FILM Nikon announced ?? It was announced after the F6.

Stephen

[NIKON KIU]

From what Nikon Just announced a couple of months ago that seems to be the case. I wouldn't hold my breath over it though.
May be a special run of FM3Ts for Japan?
You my friend, would be the first to know.
Kiu

[wlewisiii]

Personally I keep hoping - knowing its futile but still - that Canon will follow the Nikon model once and come out with a P-2007 or 7-2007 as their last film body. But the reality is that Canon has never been a company to look backwards, ever, while Nikon has done so regularly. This, unfortunately for us FD loving grognards, is why Canon will still be making new toys long after Nikon is nothing but a nearly forgotten memory. Canon proved this when they were willing to make a clean break from FD to EF mounts because it was the better solution overall. Nikon, OTOH, went nuts keeping the F mount compatable despite the negative impact to thier competative situation. Canon stayed with RF's too long (even though the 7 turned into a real best seller for them) and I don't think they will make that same mistake again.

So it goes. All we can do is to be happy is that so many good toys were made for us to keep playing with.

William

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by wlewisiii

This, unfortunately for us FD loving grognards

Oooh, I wanna be a grognard! I love that word. Did you invent it? Can I use it? I'm definitely a Canonista FD kinda guy.

On the bright side. I was just doing some figgerin'. Canon made a nice FD->LTM adapter, right? Not too useful unless you want to put your retrofocus 19mm FL mount on a Bessa R.

However. Ahem. FD->LTM adapter. LTM->M42 Adapter. M42->Four Thirds adapter. No additional glass in that path, either.

That means infinity focus and FD goodness on an 8MP Olympus Evolt E-500 or E-300 body for something like $450+ (latest body-only prices on eBoy from Cameta Camera in Amityville, NY).

I have got to be figgerin' this wrong. An Oly DSLR that supports Canon FD glass?

I think I have to lay down.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[wlewisiii]

Originally Posted by bmattock

Oooh, I wanna be a grognard! I love that word. Did you invent it? Can I use it? I'm definitely a Canonista FD kinda guy.

no, I'm not the one who came up with it... Googling on "grognard definition" gives me this which expresses the truth I know much better than I could word it:

Grognard. Not a technical term as such, but a term you'll hear in wargaming. It refers to experienced (and, these days, often middle aged) wargamers. The term was originally used as a nickname for members of Napoleons Old Guard. The term is French and means, literally, "grumbler." It reflects the attitude of the veteran troops who knew what was really going on but couldn't do much about it. So they grumbled, and so do most wargame grognards.

I have got to be figgerin' this wrong. An Oly DSLR that supports Canon FD glass?

I don't know off hand if you are or aren't. But if that works in the real world, I've got my eye on an Oly Evolt E-500 in the very near future...

William

[VinceC]

>>why Canon will still be making new toys long after Nikon is nothing but a nearly forgotten memory<<

Grognards aside, I'm not so sure Nikon is a doomed company. It still has a powerful brand name worldwide, even if it's now sharing the professional market with Canon instead of enjoying a monopoly. Competition is good for the consumer, so there's nothing wrong with both companies sharing the professional market. You also can't have it both ways. Life-cycles on pro-DSLR bodies are so short that this year's advantage is not all that meaningful. The last pro-DSLR I used was a Nikon NC-2000, the camera that took newsrooms digital.

Canon has always produced more camerras and camera models than Nikon. There are 32 different Canon RF camera bodies versus perhaps eight Nikon RF bodies. From 1950 to the late 1960s, Leitz made about half a million cameras, Canon made about 200,000 cameras and Nikon made about 140,000 RF cameras. Also, cameras are not the only products either of these companies make.

[Trius]

Bill: Are you sure you'd get infinity focus out of that? You're probably right, but for sure you'd get close focus/macro capbilities, eh?

It's funny, though ... Canon DSLR guys are buying certain Zuiko glass like crazy!

Earl

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by Trius

Bill: Are you sure you'd get infinity focus out of that? You're probably right, but for sure you'd get close focus/macro capbilities, eh?

It's funny, though ... Canon DSLR guys are buying certain Zuiko glass like crazy!

Earl

The four/thirds system enjoys a very small back-focus distance compared to the typical SLR/DSLR. This gives it a lot of room to be a 'universal recipient' for the lenses of other manufacturers. Ironically, the EOS was/is the typical recipient of adapters for just about every lens maker but NOT the FD mount (their own) because the back-focus distance difference is too small to support an adapter without a weak optic having to be put in the path, thus degrading the lens in question. Nikon suffered more from this - you can't typically adapt any lens to a Nikon SLR and have infinity focus.

So yes, according to the math, I can have infinity focus with an FD mount lens on a four thirds adapter and no extra glass in the path. However...I'd have to try it to be sure.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[VinceC]

The SP certainly is a stylish classic.

Maybe if film does stick around while longer, Nikon will finally put into production its SP-X, the auto-exposure RF camera with zooming viewfinder developed in the late 1950s-early 1960s. On the other hand, prototypes of the SP-X simply aren't as classic looking at the SP.

[kbg32]

Originally Posted by CameraQuest

just realized something folks.

As you probably know, the Nikon One of 1946 was the first Nikon camera -- film of course.

Am I correct in believing the Nikon SP 2005 was not only the LAST Nikon rangefinder, but also the LAST FILM Nikon announced ?? It was announced after the F6.

Stephen

I would say so Stephen. Judging by the recent announcements that Nikon has made.

[VinceC]

Perhaps the 2059 "Century F" will mate nicely with a removable back that incorporates an imaging crystal for 4-dimensional motion capture and resolution at the molecular level.

[bmattock]

You'll just have a small outpatient procedure to implant the latest Nikon software in your head, which will use your built-in optics and wetware processing power to capture images under conscious control. A tiny Bluetooth adapter implanted in your neck will put the image into 4GL Photoshop on your home PC, which will process it, identify key components, email those from your list of personal contacts who might be interested, upload it to image tanks all over the world, price it for licensing, and invoke your virtual lawyer AI, who will handle all enquiries and negotiate deals on your behalf. You'll just travel around the world looking at stuff and getting rich.

Best Regards,

905

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by NicolasD

In 1991 Wim Wenders released a strange, beautiful and very interesting movie, Until the end of the world, whose scene takes place in 2010 or so and displays just what is written above !

I'd like to see that. I hate that all my good ideas are already taken!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[kbg32]

Originally Posted by NicolasD

In 1991 Wim Wenders released a strange, beautiful and very interesting movie, Until the end of the world, whose scene takes place in 2010 or so and displays just what is written above !

Wenders is an interesting photographer as well.

[enochRoot]

Originally Posted by NicolasD

In 1991 Wim Wenders released a strange, beautiful and very interesting movie, Until the end of the world, whose scene takes place in 2010 or so and displays just what is written above !

great movie. i saw it when it came out, but can't remember too many details. just that i really enjoyed it. i wonder what i'd think now?

Originally Posted by CameraQuest

just realized something folks.

As you probably know, the Nikon One of 1946 was the first Nikon camera -- film of course.

Am I correct in believing the Nikon SP 2005 was not only the LAST Nikon rangefinder, but also the LAST FILM Nikon announced ?? It was announced after the F6.

Stephen

Stephen,

You could almost be an attorney with the way you "parsed" this one b/w your thread header and the later qualification "...[b]ut also the LAST FILM Nikon announced...."

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney

With almost a million Nikon F's made, a lot will still be operational in 2059. All Nikon will have to do is come out with an imaging back for them. More likely they will do something for 2009, the 50th anniversary. I hope it is more than glueing a cheezy label on whatever current camera they sell (25th anniversary F2) or using older script for "Nikon" (The F5 limited edition).

The SP-X had interesting features, like the Zoom Finder (as did the Kodak Ektra), but it was the size of a Nikon F and was (in my opinion) pretty ugly.

All that has to happen is Kobayashi-san needs to overcome his internal conflict with digital and put the tried-and-true Bessaflex TM/Bessa R/R2/R3 back into production with a digital sensor (not the ill-fated Epson RD-1s).

Since Cosina made, at one time or another, a single body with minor adaptations to fit Canon FD, Minolta MD, M42, Pentax K, and Yashica/Contax (among others), I'd bet they could do a SINGLE digital SLR/Rangefinder body (keeping them as similar as possible until the ranging mechanism or SLR pentaprism are put on during assembly) and some kind of a user-replaceable (or simple factory change) lens mount.

Imagine. In one fell swoop, a single digital SLR that supported most of the major orphaned lens mounts - a digital home for all the fantastic prime lenses out there.

That would be about the only digital retrofit concept that would make economic sense to the manufacturer. Nikon won't do it - they want to sell you a DSLR body. Canon won't do it, for the same reason + they have turned their backs on the classic FD mount. Minolta's gone away. Pentax is busy cranking out DSLRs with Samsung, and they also want to sell their own stuff + they are already backward-compatible with their own K mount, screw-mount, and even 645 and 67 mounts (via adapters for the last three).

Cosina has no dog in this fight - none of their own business to cut into. All they'd be doing is selling into the anxious holders of hundreds of thousands of prime lenses with various lens mounts. Cosina could be brand agnostic - just making the one camera in a variety of lens mounts.

They have built, at one time or another, the nearly exact same camera for every major manufacturer. I own Cosina-built Canon T-60, Vivitar V2000 (P/K mount), and some others - all EXACTLY alike, right down to major parts being interchangeable. They can do it if anybody can.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[Patman]

Originally Posted by VinceC

>>why Canon will still be making new toys long after Nikon is nothing but a nearly forgotten memory<<

Grognards aside, I'm not so sure Nikon is a doomed company. It still has a powerful brand name worldwide, even if it's now sharing the professional market with Canon instead of enjoying a monopoly. Competition is good for the consumer, so there's nothing wrong with both companies sharing the professional market. You also can't have it both ways. Life-cycles on pro-DSLR bodies are so short that this year's advantage is not all that meaningful. The last pro-DSLR I used was a Nikon NC-2000, the camera that took newsrooms digital.

Canon has always produced more camerras and camera models than Nikon. There are 32 different Canon RF camera bodies versus perhaps eight Nikon RF bodies. From 1950 to the late 1960s, Leitz made about half a million cameras, Canon made about 200,000 cameras and Nikon made about 140,000 RF cameras. Also, cameras are not the only products either of these companies make.

Statistics show that over 75% of all Pulitzer Prize Winning Photos were taken with a Nikon!

[VinceC]

>>All that has to happen is Kobayashi-san needs to overcome his internal conflict with digital and put the tried-and-true Bessaflex TM/Bessa R/R2/R3 back into production with a digital sensor (not the ill-fated Epson RD-1s).<<

Man do I wish he would see the Digital Light.
I felt no compelling reason to by one of his Nikon RF-mount film bodies because I already have what I need. But I'd sure LOVE to have a digital knock-off that took my S-mount lenses. I'd pay money for that. Maybe not the price of a digital M. But look at how fairly briskly Nikon S3s are selling at the $2,300 price ... and that's a film camera with an orphaned lens mount.

[bmattock]

Man do I wish he would see the Digital Light.
I felt no compelling reason to by one of his Nikon RF-mount film bodies because I already have what I need. But I'd sure LOVE to have a digital knock-off that took my S-mount lenses. I'd pay money for that. Maybe not the price of a digital M. But look at how fairly briskly Nikon S3s are selling at the $2,300 price ... and that's a film camera with an orphaned lens mount.

I'm just considering how many people I've met online who have purchased a DSLR with the entire intent of mounting an adapter and an old M42 lens or something along those lines. People really, really, want to put their old top-notch prime lenses back into their workflow in the digital world. This seems to me like a market waiting for a manufacturer to step forward.

You hear about the old 'supply and demand' saw - well, from anecdotal experience, there is a lot of pent-up demand for a digital camera body that can take M42, K-Mount, FD-Mount (bigtime), MD-Mount, C/Y-Mount *and* do open-aperture metering and stop-down automatically to shoot, just like the original camera bodies did (with the exception of M42 lenses - only a few of them could handle open-aperture metering).

Yes, you can get mount adapters for MOST of these - and mount them on a Pentax *ist or a Canon DSLR or an Olympus EVOLT, but it is strictly stop-down metering, stop-down shooting and whatever level of metering/programming that the particular DSLR will let you get away with.

I just get all tingly thinking about a digital version of the cheesy old Cosina-made Canon T60. FD-mount, AE (aperture preferred), and FD creamy goodness. Oh my.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Originally Posted by VinceC

>>All that has to happen is Kobayashi-san needs to overcome his internal conflict with digital and put the tried-and-true Bessaflex TM/Bessa R/R2/R3 back into production with a digital sensor (not the ill-fated Epson RD-1s).<<

Man do I wish he would see the Digital Light.
I felt no compelling reason to by one of his Nikon RF-mount film bodies because I already have what I need. But I'd sure LOVE to have a digital knock-off that took my S-mount lenses. I'd pay money for that. Maybe not the price of a digital M. But look at how fairly briskly Nikon S3s are selling at the $2,300 price ... and that's a film camera with an orphaned lens mount.

Yep, I'd buy one. Would love the option of using my S-mount lenses on a digital RF. Unfortunately Vince, not sure if the market is "big" enough even for Kobayashi-san to find attractive.

[Uncle Bill]

A rather sad milestone but you never know, Nikon might still make the odd limited run. I have been a fan of the F and F2 for a while now and they will still be used as long as film is still around.

Bill

[VinceC]

>>Yep, I'd buy one. Would love the option of using my S-mount lenses on a digital RF. Unfortunately Vince, not sure if the market is "big" enough even for Kobayashi-san to find attractive.<<

The market is probably literally in the dozens. On the other hand, he already has the tooling for the mount AND some unsold S-mount cameras and lenses. Once the RD-1s technology has come and gone, if the Bessa R-platform was reworked to a digital body that sold primarily in LTM and M mount, I think a small portion of the Nikon/Contax/Kiev user community would pay a bit extra for an S-mount and Contax-mount version. At this point on the production line, it would literally mean a simple module swap between the M and Nikon/Contax focusing mechanisms. The production line is already set up and the extra focus mounts probably even exist.

Originally Posted by Brian Sweeney

If you are going to buy an M-Mount Digital RF, getting a Contax to M-Mount adapter is not a big deal. After that, adjust the shims on the lenses if required; or adjust the RF on the camera for the S-Mount lenses. You end up with an S-Mount Digital Camera. It might say Epson or Leica, but you will be able to use those lenses.

Brian,

When the Digi M comes out - I'm going to follow up with you on this. I buy the body and the adapter - you do the shim adjustments for me(for a reasonable compensation of course).

You are adept at this - I am a lkutz!

[Dingo]

Originally Posted by kbg32

Wenders is an interesting photographer as well.

and also the director of this wonderful documentary 'Buena Vista Social Club'.