Photographers and Marksmen

[Peter]

I have this little theory that firearms shooters tends to be involved in photography. I have noticed it here in Singapore at the local shooting club.

[wlewisiii]

I've been a gun nut and hunter even longer than a photographer. Perhaps it has something to do with these activities all being very observation oriented?

William

[Nikon Bob]

I gave up on firearms after they had us register all firearms in Canada and moved to photography. A lot of the same techniques used to get off a successful shot are the same with both. It is really ironic that photography is suffering in a similar way post 911. I must have a black cloud following me.

Bob

[doubs43]

"I've been a gun nut and hunter even longer than a photographer."

Me too. Fired my first handgun - a 1927 Colt Woodsman - in 1948. My father was also interested in both guns and photography and has between 100 & 120 photographs in the Archives of the Smithsonian Institute.

Walker

[GallenWolf]

Peter, may I know a bit more info about this shooting club? I love going for range, once took part in safisam, but only as "backup shooter".

Alvin

[Peter]

I was with SAFRA IPSC before I quit shooting as I am too busy these days. It is at National Shooting Centre at Lim Chu Kang. When I was in the army I was the section marksman (designated sharpshooter) during SISPEC. Before army I was in the secondary school air rifle team. Photography and shooting have a lot of similarities in the form of stance, breathing, holding and trigger control.

[GallenWolf]

Any links or urls for this particular club? Talking about air rifles, yeah kinda forgot about them. I was in the club too during secondary school!

Alvin

[bmattock]

Originally posted by Nikon Bob
I gave up on firearms after they had us register all firearms in Canada and moved to photography. A lot of the same techniques used to get off a successful shot are the same with both. It is really ironic that photography is suffering in a similar way post 911. I must have a black cloud following me.

Bob

In the Marine Corps, they called it BRASS. Breathe, Relax, Aim, Stop, Squeeze. Works great for holding a camera steady, too.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[Peter]

Originally posted by GallenWolf
Any links or urls for this particular club? Talking about air rifles, yeah kinda forgot about them. I was in the club too during secondary school!

Alvin

You could take a look here http://www.singaporeshooting.org/index.shtml
It seems that we have quite a few shooters here in RFF!

[bmattock]

I have been pondering your statement - and it seems there is some truth to it, more than the casual glance might reveal. Do people who enjoy fine cameras (specifically rangefinders) also appreciate firearms? I now believe you're on the right track, but there is more to it...to wit:

I also suspect that a part of it might be the appreciation of fine machinery. Great classic SLRs and rangefinders have that essence of the awesome about them, such that they transcend being merely recorders of photons on film, objects of glass and steel, and become imbued with something that, if not an actual soul, is very much like one in many respects.

This can also be observed in fine mechanical watches, high-quality firearms, steam trains, and one or two automobiles.

I note also that with the exception of the most expensive end of the enthusiast's pursuit, the heyday of fine mechanical objects for the sake of their being fine mechanical objects is past. The appreciation for a man's labor and skill beyond what mass-production can give us is past.

Fortunately, being fine mechanical objects, they are often found in the loving hands of those who treat them with respect and use them as the tools they were meant to be.

If my photograph made with an ancient Serenar lens is less sharp than a modern autofocus autoexposure plastic-bodied chimera, then so mote it be. I have the privilege of owning and using a fine mechanical specimen that feels good in my hand and guides my spirit to take better photographs than I otherwise might - or so I choose to believe.

While time marches on, and I am certainly not immune to the charms of the beckoning, glittering, digital future, there must still be some dark and quiet place where one can shoot all day, then return home and dunk a roll of film in a bucket of developer and try to bring forth magic.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[Peter]

Well said Bill! Somehow mechanical/classic RF users feel that the process is just as important as the outcome. I like good photos but I enjoy the feeling of operating a mechanical RF even more! Good end results are bonuses! It is the same with good bolt action target rifles.

[Nikon Bob]

Yeah , an auto loading 12 guage is a tool but a side by side sidelock 12 guage with an English style straight grip stock is a tool/work of art. The photographic equivilant to me is the comparison of a pro DSLR to a Leica screw mount. I like steam trains and piston engined vintage aircraft also. They seem to have more soul/personality.

Bob

[r-brian]

I found that its much easier getting a deer out of the woods after shooting it with a camera than with a gun.

Brian

[Doug]

Bill I think you're right. As a former mechanical engineer, I appreciate mechanical artistry, and that certainly includes ergonomics and performance along with design, materials, craftsmanship, etc.

As there are different kinds of viewfinder systems, there are different approaches to firearm actions, and it's fun to experience different thinking along those lines.

I got involved in reloading, too, akin to darkroom work, and treated the firing range as a testing lab. The result was benchrest shooting, action pistol shooting, self-defense training with pistol, knife, and rifle, and the biggest black hole I encountered, Collecting!

As a consequence of flirting with that issue with firearms I learned some interesting history, but I have to keep reminding myself, in regard to cameras, I am NOT a collector! Too dangerously expenseive.

[doubs43]

Bill, IMO you've pretty well nailed it. Most people who like firearms and old cameras are appreciative of - even reverent towards - precision mechanical and optical devices. I know I am and to your list I would add finely crafted writing instruments.

Doug, collecting guns is absolutely a black hole. Take it from someone who had/has a love of Lugers.

Walker

[Doug]

Brian, you're a shooter, too? Do I know you from, formerly, the Shooting forum on AOL?

[oftheherd]

Originally posted by r-brian
I found that its much easier getting a deer out of the woods after shooting it with a camera than with a gun.

Brian

How true.

But for all that I love the smell of fixer in the early morning, the tastes just can't compare.

As to weapons, how about a S&W 45 revolver, Colt 45 Auto, a Mauser 380; A 243 Winchester lever action, 7 mag bolt action. Talk about workmanship! All past passions.

[Tim]

Now I'm scared at just how much I fit in......

I am a Mechanical Engineer.
I use RF cameras in part because I hate automation getting between me and teh picture, and in part because I love the craftsmanship and feel.
I shoot target with a .50 cal Pennsylvania flintlock rifle and a .36 cal Colt Navy cap and ball revolver because I enjoy the challenge and the history.
I drive a 1966 MGB, because it has a great feel, and because I can actually work on it.

I think I'll stop there....




tim

[bmattock]

Originally posted by Doug
Brian, you're a shooter, too? Do I know you from, formerly, the Shooting forum on AOL?

Might have been my father, who had the same name. Sadly, he has gone on now, but he was active on AOL. His screen name was MATTOCKSSR007 as I recall.

I helped my dad get his CMP M1 Garand, which my step-mother still proudly displays. I wrote this about the Garand back then:

http://www.fulton-armory.com/whycmp.htm

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[bmattock]

Originally posted by r-brian
I found that its much easier getting a deer out of the woods after shooting it with a camera than with a gun.

Brian

I respect your beliefs, Brian, and I know that hunting (and guns) are volatile issues - perhaps not well-suited for the friendly confines of RFF. Let me just say that it is my respect for life and the fact that I acknowledge myself as a meat-eater that I can and have hunted, and have eaten what I have killed. Many of us buy meat in the grocery store - an animal died under unpleasant circumstances for that. I have connected myself by choice to understanding what it means to be human and kill other animals to survive. I pass no judgement on the beliefs of those who choose not to hunt - I have not hunted in many years myself, and content myself with using firearms for making accurate and expensive holes in pieces of paper at a target range from time to time. But I have no moral qualms about hunting, when it comes to that.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[bmattock]

Originally posted by Tim
Now I'm scared at just how much I fit in......

I am a Mechanical Engineer.
I use RF cameras in part because I hate automation getting between me and teh picture, and in part because I love the craftsmanship and feel.
I shoot target with a .50 cal Pennsylvania flintlock rifle and a .36 cal Colt Navy cap and ball revolver because I enjoy the challenge and the history.
I drive a 1966 MGB, because it has a great feel, and because I can actually work on it.

I think I'll stop there....




tim

Tim,

Three words for you:

Vincent. Black. Shadow.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[bmattock]

Originally posted by Doug
Bill I think you're right. As a former mechanical engineer, I appreciate mechanical artistry, and that certainly includes ergonomics and performance along with design, materials, craftsmanship, etc.

I was hooked on fine mechanical watches the first time I idly opened the back of my grandfather's Elgin pocket watch. Oh, my! The gears, springs, and levers inside - all decorated with engravings that the owner would most likely never see - done in a fine style just because it was the right thing to do. Mechanical engineering as not just a discipline, but an actual art form.

I also realized that in this world of intangible information as wealth and power, this was a physical representation of the past, something that should be kept and appreciated.

When I hold my grandfather's pocket watch in my hand, I hold an appreciable fraction of a man's life who made it. Yes, the gears were cut by machine, but a human being sat down at a bench, assembled the pieces, and made it go with a skill that I cannot fathom, and then polished it, marked it with engravings and swirls and florishes, timed it, and set it in motion - I still carry that today - it still keeps good time. It was made in 1903. It has outlived my grandfather, my father, and my outlive me.

What I have I built, made, or created that will last longer than I will?

I am deeply appreciative of the unknown man's skill who made my grandfather's watch. It has led to an appreciation of all fine mechanical things.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[mac_wt]

I have some strong opinions about firearms/guns. Most have to do with moral issues with why they were invented and produced. I can intellectually understand the thing about 'fine mechanics', but my feelings tell me to stay far away from guns. I hope you don't mind.

Wim

[Pherdinand]

No firearm. But i love to shoot with bows so i said "yes". Although i don't do it too often

No, it's not related to my origins. I don't like horseriding.

[Pherdinand]

Yeah, how's that for old mechanical things...a bow