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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

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Old 01-07-2013   #26
Richard G
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Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
I have no problem with it. However, I've been told the problem arises when you combine discreet and C instead of S. I haven't tried that, but why should someone shoot with discreet and C, it doesn't make any sense.
You shoot with discreet and C mode when your default is discreet and then you want to occasionally make use of C. Instead of just switching to C, are you going to enter the menu and change the shutter recocking mode? All those C moments will have gone! To me it's a bug. To me it's unacceptable. I've been keeping away from C anyway as that seems to get me closer to lockdown. The M9 is a great camera, but there are still some software problems.
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Old 01-07-2013   #27
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I am using a total of four SD cards:
2 each of : 16GB class 10 Lexar Pro 133x SDHC and 400x SDHC U-1
in M9 and Monochrom and never had any issues.
This is what works for me and I will not try anything else.
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Old 01-07-2013   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
You shoot with discreet and C mode when your default is discreet and then you want to occasionally make use of C. Instead of just switching to C, are you going to enter the menu and change the shutter recocking mode? All those C moments will have gone! To me it's a bug. To me it's unacceptable. I've been keeping away from C anyway as that seems to get me closer to lockdown. The M9 is a great camera, but there are still some software problems.
I understand, but how would you expect the camera to behave with this odd combination. I guess it's open to interpretation since C shoots continuously and discreet recocks the shutter only when you release your finger.
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Old 01-07-2013   #29
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Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
I understand, but how would you expect the camera to behave with this odd combination. I guess it's open to interpretation since C shoots continuously and discreet recocks the shutter only when you release your finger.
Well, I don't know. My camera is set to discreet, but it is irrelevant when I shoot continuous as the shutter recocks for the next picture until you release the button. It is said that the camera may not recocok with the latest software, and that a second shutter button press is necessary to get it to recock. I don't know whether Continuous mode malfunctions if the menu setting has discreet selected. Discreet doesn't have agency when in Continuous mode on my camera. I have no direct experience because I don't have the latest firmware. Even Jaap, who is close to Leica, concedes there is a problem and stated that discreet is best dropped as an option when this issue came up. I can only go on what has been experienced by those with the latest firmware. I might eventually join them but feel no pressure at the moment.
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Old 01-07-2013   #30
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Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
I understand, but how would you expect the camera to behave with this odd combination. ...
I had hoped it would continue to work the way it did under the previous firmware version.
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Old 01-08-2013   #31
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So there is actually nothing wrong with access to discreet mode with the latest M9 firmware?
The problem with discreet mode and the latest M9 firmware is still there - Leica never issued a firmware, to correct the problem.

Now that I try to remember though, what exactly the problem was, I don't remember - it is fundamental though for discreet mode users (I use discreet mode since my first Leica M digital in a way to "replicate the flow of shooting a film M" - you shoot, more or less silently and advance by a move of your right hand, to prepare the camera for the next shot).

Btw - regarding people wondering about Leica's slowness about technical issues and their correction for users, who shelled out big money for buying their products - the M Mono still runs on a beta firmware and is shipped since day one with that (until this day).

I use my Mono with the knowledge, that any shot it completely locks up.
I have lost many shots that way already and just make due with it that way. It's a shame, really.

Leica's advice regarding the beta firmware related lockups of their most expensive mass production digital rangefinder?

Just don't use discreet mode then.

Now tell me, we Germans don't have humour

I don't anticipate Leica ever resolving the M9/ M Mono firmware issues, related to lockups and file corruption (at least, I wouldn't count on it, if I had to rely professionally on those cameras, but rather use the workarounds, also involving simply accepting lockups and file corruption and planning against them with redundant measures).

I hope the M10 is an attempt to correct these and then slowly put those old cameras under the carpet (see M8 display debacle).
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Old 01-09-2013   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard G View Post
Well, I don't know. My camera is set to discreet, but it is irrelevant when I shoot continuous as the shutter recocks for the next picture until you release the button. It is said that the camera may not recocok with the latest software, and that a second shutter button press is necessary to get it to recock. I don't know whether Continuous mode malfunctions if the menu setting has discreet selected. Discreet doesn't have agency when in Continuous mode on my camera. I have no direct experience because I don't have the latest firmware. Even Jaap, who is close to Leica, concedes there is a problem and stated that discreet is best dropped as an option when this issue came up. I can only go on what has been experienced by those with the latest firmware. I might eventually join them but feel no pressure at the moment.
Ok, now I understand. So continuous mode will take priority over discreet, basically becoming standard. Sounds very logical. I wonder how difficult it is to fix this bug, probably not so difficult
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Old 01-09-2013   #33
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Originally Posted by menos View Post
The problem with discreet mode and the latest M9 firmware is still there - Leica never issued a firmware, to correct the problem.

Now that I try to remember though, what exactly the problem was, I don't remember - it is fundamental though for discreet mode users (I use discreet mode since my first Leica M digital in a way to "replicate the flow of shooting a film M" - you shoot, more or less silently and advance by a move of your right hand, to prepare the camera for the next shot).

Btw - regarding people wondering about Leica's slowness about technical issues and their correction for users, who shelled out big money for buying their products - the M Mono still runs on a beta firmware and is shipped since day one with that (until this day).

I use my Mono with the knowledge, that any shot it completely locks up.
I have lost many shots that way already and just make due with it that way. It's a shame, really.

Leica's advice regarding the beta firmware related lockups of their most expensive mass production digital rangefinder?

Just don't use discreet mode then.

Now tell me, we Germans don't have humour

I don't anticipate Leica ever resolving the M9/ M Mono firmware issues, related to lockups and file corruption (at least, I wouldn't count on it, if I had to rely professionally on those cameras, but rather use the workarounds, also involving simply accepting lockups and file corruption and planning against them with redundant measures).

I hope the M10 is an attempt to correct these and then slowly put those old cameras under the carpet (see M8 display debacle).
Thanks for this Dirk. I didn't want to seem like a trouble-maker. I love my M9 and for months now I have had no problems. All this week I have been using a class 4 Lexar card.

When I had lockdowns the chief operational problem was the absolute necessity of having a spare formatted card. Without that I was sunk, with a camera that would not turn on, thanks to a card with a corrupted file structure. Many on RFF did not seem to understand the implications of this: missed photos, lost photos, and the end of your photographic session for that day unless you had a spare card or you could buy or borrow another card.

As to lost photos, the only program I found that could retrieve them was SanDisk's RescuePro Deluxe with a Mac. The PC could not read the card and kept crashing.
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Card Lockdown on M9
Old 01-09-2013   #34
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Card Lockdown on M9

I have had two Sandisk cards lock up the M9 - one a replacement for the other, both 8GB Extreme Pro cards. Now gone back to nothing higher than class 6 (generic) and that seems to solve the issue.
They feel slower, tho this may just be my imagination, and certainly take forever to write to the card.
This feels a lot like buying a Ferrari and only being allowed to use first and second gear!
After 40 years of M3, M2, M4P, and a couple of M6's (in total, less cost than my M9!) this may be my last, digital, Leica - I can't trust this camera anymore!
Not even a positive response from Leica and, inevitably, they blame it on the cards and the card people blame it on the camera .......meanwhile......
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Old 01-09-2013   #35
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Originally Posted by IanBiggar View Post
I have had two Sandisk cards lock up the M9 - one a replacement for the other, both 8GB Extreme Pro cards. Now gone back to nothing higher than class 6 (generic) and that seems to solve the issue.
They feel slower, tho this may just be my imagination, and certainly take forever to write to the card.
This feels a lot like buying a Ferrari and only being allowed to use first and second gear!
After 40 years of M3, M2, M4P, and a couple of M6's (in total, less cost than my M9!) this may be my last, digital, Leica - I can't trust this camera anymore!
Not even a positive response from Leica and, inevitably, they blame it on the cards and the card people blame it on the camera .......meanwhile......
Ian
Courage Ian. I was disconsolate in the early days but I have had months now without a problem. Ken Rockwell, no less, has done tests on the write times. It isn't much slower with class 6 v class 10 or even class 4 v class 10. I agree it seems it sometimes.

I have had my M9 with me every day since I bought it and since April not one problem.
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Old 01-09-2013   #36
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Following all this with great interest. I'd be very interested to know if anyone has reported a problem with class 4 or 6 cards.
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Old 01-09-2013   #37
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Richard, with the digital Leicas - especially with the M9 its seems, one must at all times have at least one or two proven extra cards and batteries at hand.
Those cameras are unreliable and on bad days only feeding them fresh cards and batteries helps you over the day.

I handle SD cards as consumables. The moment any SD card was involved in trouble, I sort them out and put them on the pile for unimportant file transfer or redundant, redundant safety cards to do backups of backups, when traveling.

The other day I was caught un-prepared and shot my last working SD card in the M9.
The M9 corrupted the card, which rendered the M9 as a brick for the rest of the day.
Fortunately I had a M8.2 as a second body that day, which kept me shooting (on that corrupted M9 card btw, which worked perfectly fine with the M8.2).

No photos except the last shot, where the M9 locked up were damaged.

Leica is a fantastic manufacturer of great glass and really beautiful mechanics.
The digital Ms though must be approached with a lot of common sense McGuyver'ism and the will to close an eye or two on the issues, these cameras come with.

One could call them "quirky".

I run at the moment an older FW on the M9, which allows me to use discreet mode:

FW 1.176 (some very nice guy on LUF helped me out, getting this older FW)

On the Mono I have the only official FW available:

FW 0.017

Is that actually the designation of an Alpha firmware in computer science?

It's beyond me, that this whole thing didn't blow any bigger waves.

In any case, you got to have some good will, to make those cameras working.
The good advice here on the forum is the key - try proven working cards and sort out SD cards, that were making trouble.
I prevent using SD cards bigger than 8GB in the M9 and still run on my last big stock of SanDisk cards, once I need a refresh, I will switch to Lexar or Panasonic.
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Old 01-09-2013   #38
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Quote:
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Many on RFF did not seem to understand the implications of this: missed photos, lost photos, and the end of your photographic session for that day unless you had a spare card or you could buy or borrow another card.
I think the majority of photographers (maybe the silent majority) fully appreciate this.

A camera that, without user error, causes missed and lost photos has missed it's reason d'etre. If it was user error it would be a different story.

I have had lock ups and lost photos with my M8, which made me seriously fed up with the camera. I have since changed the sd cards I am using, and have had no problems since. However in my mind the camera is unreliable. I treat it like a vintage car now, in that if I need absolute reliability for a task, I will use something else. However I enjoy using the camera once again.

My understanding is that the firmware for the M series digital cameras so far has been provided to Leica by another firm - Jenoptik. I don't know if this has something to do with the slow addressing of issues. I think the cameras also suffer from power management/battery problems (reflecting the technology used at the time I am guessing , so probably not something that can be fixed fully in firmware - even though there have been measures introduced to the firmware). For the new M 240 I understand Leica will doing the firmware in house (as they do already for the S series cameras), that along with the revised battery will hopefully put in an end to such issues. Cold comfort for the previous generations of camera users though.
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Old 01-13-2013   #39
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I posted a thread a while back with the same problem.
Sandisc Extreme cards.
Lost pictures from my M8. & had lock up problems with the (loan) M9.
I now use Kingston & Samsung cards. No problems since!
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Old 01-13-2013   #40
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this was posted on LUF and i thought it would be appreciated here.

anyone wanting to downgrade and download previous software for their cameras, it can be found here, courtesy of R.G. Lewis.
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Old 08-11-2013   #41
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I have had recent problems with my M8 and some sd cards. I mistakenly erased some files on my mac from the sd card. When inserting it into the M8, I got an error message that the card was locked and could not take any shots nor format the card. I found a suggestion on one of the forums to format the card on my mac and add a couple of folders with random names on it. When i inserted the card into the M8 I now had a message that the card was full but was able to format it in camera and use it. I also had this happen with a brand new lexar pro card. It seems this fixes the sd lockup problem.

Hope this helps some of you with a similar sd lockup problem.
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