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Digital Leica M8 / M8.2 / M9 / M-E /Mono / M10 aka "M" Discussions about the Leica M8 /M 8.2 / M9 / M9-P/ M-E / M Monochrom / M10 aka "M": Leica digital M mount rangefinder cameras. Naming the new digital M the "Leica M" is VERY unfortunate as it will only confuse newbies with other Leica M cameras of the the past. Happily there is room for confusion with only the past 59 years of Leica M production ... since Leica introduced the Leica M system in 1953. All Hail for the Leica Marketing Department learning Leica M history!

View Poll Results: M9/Summilux OR M8.2/Noctilux
M8.2 w/ 50mm Noctilux f1 55 16.22%
M9 w/ 50mm Summilux pre-asph f1.4 284 83.78%
Voters: 339. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-16-2011   #76
menos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rodl View Post
Everybody has their preferences and I'm good with that but bad mouthing something you haven't tried is foolish. That's about like condemning sex because it's messy when you haven't actually done it. Once you've tried it, you may just change your mind.
Haha truly written ;-)

I have my Noctilux always with me.
Two of a lot at the Le Mans 24h during the night:


"taking pictures"


"night watch"

I love my Noctilux - You either love it or not, but with this lens, there can't be an argument in between the extremes ;-)
And don't tell, it's difficult or slow to focus - these were no wax figures.

What amazes me again and again about the Noctilux, is how finished the photos come out, projected by this wonderful glass - very, very little processing needs to be done (dirty sensor blobbing, sharpening, framing, watermarking) - no other lens I shot (maybe the Noct-Nikkor), shows this quality.
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Old 06-16-2011   #77
Lord Fluff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by menos View Post

And don't tell, it's difficult or slow to focus - these were no wax figures.
I've tried two examples and both were very hard work to focus (unless you have the grip of a gorilla) since the focussing ring was so stiff. On the upside, after a while using it, you'd probably be very good at opening jars with stuck lids.....

Perhaps they're not all like this. Again, it's personal preference - my black paint pre-asph lux is a joy to focus - quick, ultra-smooth, light, precise.
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Old 06-16-2011   #78
menos
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Yes, this is partly correct - the Noctilux is more heavily damped than most wide angle and probably the 50 Lux pre ASPH.

My and the other samples, I have tried are extremely smooth without any bump, grittiness, stickiness or alike.
It is less heavily damped than the 90 Cron with a longer focus throw, which makes it very quick and precise, to focus.

People, please don't confuse "quick focussing" with short focus throw!
I focus my short focus throw 50 Lux ASPH actually slower and less precise than the Noctilux wide open, as a short focus throw in fact makes for less precision, where it counts: around your chosen focus point!

You make up for the longer focus throw with deeper anticipation and constant pre focussing just by feel without raising the camera.

The Noctilux is an extremely fast to use lens this way. Only wide angle lenses do operate quicker for me (35 Lux and down), as they really demand less precision for good focus (only exception being the CV 35/1.2, which unluckily pairs a wide f1.2 aperture with an extremely short focus throw and slight sticky feel, leading to overall s l o w focussing).

The often praised (for it's optical achievements rightly so) 50 Lux ASPH is in fact a very crummy lens in operation.
Really, practical usage wise, the new 50 ASPH is not all sunshine.
I would love, to lay my hands on a nice pre ASPH Lux for some time, I think, I would quite like it ;-)
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Old 06-16-2011   #79
markgay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCTuomey View Post
...the M8's files process well and with less work than the M9's files. Sharper and closer to "finish" shape out of the camera (better WB for example), sweet-spot size (quicker to process), print really well (surprisingly so at higher iso's).

One lone vote for the M8 and Noctilux. I'd shoot that combo in a heartbeat.
The evidence backs you. Clearly the M8 uses the sweet spot and avoids the problematic peripheral vision of many fast lenses, not just the Noctilux.

The M8 images are sharper because the IR filter over the sensor is thinner. If you shoot B+W, the M8 is undoubtedly superior. As a user, the M8 is faster. And the resolution is the same, the M9's sensor is simply larger.

But if you have the original M8, it does suffer from a boxy sound and, at really low shutter speeds, below 1/15, the shutter's vibration can compromise the shot. I do now concede that the M8's 1/8000 shutter speed is not worth the vibration vs the 1/4000 of the M8.2 or M9 - the slower max. shutter speed is moot as you'll probably need at least a 3-stop ND filter anyway.

I would really advise anyone to base their decision on the lens. Lenses are chosen according to your style of photography. If you want the Noctilux f/1, then it will be as good, or even better, on the M8.2 than on the M9.

If the 50mm Summilux is your preference, as the previous post shows, don't assume it's easier to use.

Those who put camera before lens are confusing "investment in the latest" when five years hence, both cameras will be the best part of a decade old, with two years between them. And then you'll buy your M10.. and, hopefully, you'll still have your Noctilux.

I use the 50mm f/1 on both the original M8, and the M9.

Best regards,
Mark

Last edited by markgay : 06-16-2011 at 13:42.
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Old 07-11-2011   #80
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Man, I wrestled this one ... Pondering it a while back, too. But it's clear now, as my thoughts about the Nocti and M9 have settled. Definitely, I'd go with the M9 option.
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Old 08-11-2011   #81
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I can't really offer any advice, even though I have most of what's been discussed. I went from a couple of M8's to an M8 and an M9. I still use the M8 quite a bit, as I really like it with the MATE and the 28 Summicron and also IR. I actually prefer the Noctilux (f/1) on the M8 to the M9. I'm not shelling out for something like the 0.95 until its mfd is less than 1m. The Summilux's are great, but make sure you're looking at a late pre-ASPH so that it's mfd is 0.7m and not 1m like the ealier ones. The look of the two lenses is obviously different, so if it's either/or, make sure you like the look of the one you choose.

The 'better high ISO performance' of the M9 is over rated. Crop factors are only really a problem if there is no lens in the FL, speed, size you want; otherwise it's really no big deal. 10Mp is enough for 11x14's, so that's not generally a problem. Some menu items are an improvement, and it's that that is the real benefit of the M9 over the M8. Speed certainly isn't, as there is no difference.

In any case, I use my M9 about twice as much as my M8 now but that is mostly because I shoot lots of wide stuff and that's easier with the M9.

Henning
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Last edited by HenningW : 08-11-2011 at 14:22. Reason: spellin'
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Old 08-11-2011   #82
HenningW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fluff View Post
I've tried two examples and both were very hard work to focus (unless you have the grip of a gorilla) since the focussing ring was so stiff. On the upside, after a while using it, you'd probably be very good at opening jars with stuck lids.....

Perhaps they're not all like this. Again, it's personal preference - my black paint pre-asph lux is a joy to focus - quick, ultra-smooth, light, precise.
A lot of the Noctilux out there have had little use. Many have had multiple owners, but few shots taken with them. I too have had a couple since the first one came out. My current one, bought used mint in the mid-90's was very stiff at first but after about 3 months of use was as smooth and easy as any lens. Same with my 75 Summilux; bought NIB about 15 years ago from a dealer who had it on his shelf for 10 years. Stiff and lumpy at first, which helped with the price, and now as smooth as you could wish.

Henning
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Old 08-17-2011   #83
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I second Henning on this one - when I bought my 50/1 version 4 second hand from a dealer, it looked like new, with not one single mark (still does due to my attention).

It felt similar to my latest pre ASPH 90/2, rather stiff, but smooth in focus.
After a few weeks of use, the "stiffness" has gone away and the lens is the absolute smoothest of them all.

It is the only lens, I have ever used, that works without ANY perceivable play whatsoever.
It is the only one, I can turn the focus ring with a touch of a (strong) finger with precisely the same amount of force needed close up and at infinity.
There is not one single point in between, that feels different.

My sample is wide open at f1 spot on sharp at 1m AND at infinity.

It indeed is the nicest lens of them all.
The only niggle, one can have with the version 4 is, that as a user lens, the lens hood of the version 4 is less practical, than the bayonet hood.

The version 4 fetches higher prices as being the last f1, but the version 3 is an all together more practical shooter.
The moment, a nice deal on a second Noctilux (v3) comes up, I have to think twice I guess.
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Old 09-07-2011   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenningW View Post

The 'better high ISO performance' of the M9 is over rated. Crop factors are only really a problem if there is no lens in the FL, speed, size you want; otherwise it's really no big deal. 10Mp is enough for 11x14's, so that's not generally a problem. Some menu items are an improvement, and it's that that is the real benefit of the M9 over the M8. Speed certainly isn't, as there is no difference.

Henning
I fully agree with this! I am one of the 35 who picked nocti+m8. I have the nocti and used it with my M8 and other M bodies and just recently upgraded to the M9. I miss the 1/8000th on the M8 that the M9 doesn't have but it isn't a deal breaker. Another thing is I got use to having the picture count reading on the top plate of the M8 also lacking on the M9. Looking back with an unbias'd opinion on my experiences, I would choose M8 + nocti if its either or.

M8 is a fine camera although limited. Then again what camera isn't? The M10 will likely not have all the features I want as well. In the mean time I love my nocti, I love my M9, and I love photography.

One of my M8 shots with the nocti...





Last edited by rHytHm : 09-07-2011 at 12:58.
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Old 09-07-2011   #85
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I also vote for the M8 + 50/1. If I was never going to own another camera or lens, I'd go with the M9 + 50/1.4. I will own more cameras. My M8 is something I use for now, but I probably won't have it in 5 years. My 50/1 will probably be with me for as long as I enjoy taking pictures.

I have both of the lenses you mention, and both are exceptional and quite different from each other. I couldn't imagine parting with either, but I won't bat an eye the day I sell my M8.

John
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Old 09-12-2011   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenningW View Post
The 'better high ISO performance' of the M9 is over rated.
Just to offer a dissenting voice - as someone who shoots in low light frequently (I'm a wedding photographer), I disagree strongly with this.

The M8 at ISO 1250 can produce awful banding, and in any case is borderline unusable. The M9 at ISO 2500 produces (mostly) entirely saleable images. YMMV of course, as will how much this matters to you. For me the M8 was largely useless as a wedding camera, the M9 is so much better.
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Old 09-11-2012   #87
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when buying for me it's ALWAYS glass over bodys,
get that noctilux, use it on the M8, pair it with an M9 when
prices fall through the floor in about 2 weeks from now
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Old 09-11-2012   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maitani View Post
when buying for me it's ALWAYS glass over bodys,
get that noctilux, use it on the M8, pair it with an M9 when
prices fall through the floor in about 2 weeks from now

*ding*

keep the M8.2 get some nice glass for it, IMO.

no need for an M9 now. if anything, they'll be much cheaper in the coming weeks...
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Old 09-27-2012   #89
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Get the Noc. the lens is not going to get any cheaper in the future, but the camera will. It will be better off to get the lens now when you had the budget.
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Old 10-04-2012   #90
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how about a M10 and a nokton 1.1
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Old 12-27-2012   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denizg7 View Post
how about a M10 and a nokton 1.1
It's not about where to spend the bigger amount of money - the body or the lens, it's only about one thing: which lens' rendering one prefers.

If it is the Noctilux 1, only a 50/1 and any (preferably M9/MM/M-E/M10 or film M) body will suffice, provided, both are well matched.

If it is the Nokton's look, one prefers, lucky git, I'd say, as a lot of initial cost is saved.
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Old 12-29-2012   #92
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M8.2 and Noctilux for me, the lens will still be as capable in 10 years time when either camera is dust. I thought Leica was all about the glass anyway?
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Old 12-30-2012   #93
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M9 and 50 Lux, no brainer I'd say. Enjoy.

Jason.
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Old 12-30-2012   #94
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If you really want the nocti, go for the nocti option. You also have to take into account the crop factor of the M8.2. I would personally go for an M9 and Lux (y)
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Old 01-03-2013   #95
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I'd pick M9 & Summilux, my favorite combo.
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