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Old 11-12-2012   #81
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
For those who are exporting to TIFF to work in another raw processor, what are your export settings?

One of the real drags about the SPP software is that you can't batch process and use settings for minus noise reduction.

I'm using SPP only for conversion, which I do one image at a time so that I can manually set noise reduction to -2.

There are people who are then applying cornerfix to some images. I haven't bothered yet to make a profile.

Also some people will set a profile for importing TIFFs into LR.
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Old 11-13-2012   #82
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I was able to figure out my workflow last night... and it'll take double the time of my usual workflow. However, I think it'll be worth it. The only issue with the DP2m results is that it makes the rest of my cameras seem soft.

I do batch conversion... however, after you tweak images in SPP, you have to save each one. Then export as custom instead of the sigma file type. Seems to work for me.

I haven't seen the need for cornerfix.
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Old 11-13-2012   #83
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
The only issue with the DP2m results is that it makes the rest of my cameras seem soft.
seeing statements like this, and seeing full size sample pics, is making the dp2m hard to resist. the corner to corner clarity is unlike anything i've seen in small format.
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Old 11-13-2012   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfatty View Post
corner to corner clarity is unlike anything i've seen in small format.
You may need to add medium to that as well! ;-)
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Old 11-14-2012   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfatty View Post
seeing statements like this, and seeing full size sample pics, is making the dp2m hard to resist. the corner to corner clarity is unlike anything i've seen in small format.
Yes, but be prepared to use it in its proper niche. Unlike other cameras on this site, the owners of this camera seem to all agree on its pros and cons.
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Old 11-14-2012   #86
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Yes, but be prepared to use it in its proper niche.
That's exactly the cause of my hesitation. Week-to-week most of my stuff is high iso interior. Not a good fit. When I have a chance I do get out and shoot low/lower ISO landscapes, etc., but that is far less often. It may make more sense for me to wait for a used one for something I won't use as much as a high iso camera.

I've been searching for interior flash shots with the dp2m but haven't found that many. I'm not shy about using an external bounce flash so perhaps I could use it that way. But I understand that's not its strongest niche.
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Old 11-14-2012   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfatty View Post
I've been searching for interior flash shots with the dp2m but haven't found that many.
Any links for these? I ask because I have experimented with a Nikon SB-28 and my 2M.

I don't think my results, so far, are what you are looking for ...
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Old 11-14-2012   #88
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Originally Posted by burancap View Post
Any links for these? I ask because I have experimented with a Nikon SB-28 and my 2M.
i vaguely remember seeing at least one flash shot in dpreview, but if i recall correctly it may have been a studio shot rather than a shot with a single flash.

i currently use MF film with flash indoors and am happy with the results. i'm curious if the dp2m with flash might give similar results since i see it so often compared to MF, albeit in landscapes.

here it is, looks like a studio set up: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/th...-post-50089127

here's another dpr link, which has a link to a flickr set with a bunch of photos taken with the dp2m with flash:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/th...-post-50075037
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Last edited by dfatty : 11-14-2012 at 13:46. Reason: added link
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Old 11-14-2012   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfatty View Post
here it is, looks like a studio set up: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/th...-post-50089127
Thank you!

I was interested (as one posted in your link) in any information about working with non-Sigma flashes.
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Old 11-14-2012   #90
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I'm assuming, which I shouldn't, that the Sigma hotshoe will trigger a generic thyristor flash like the Metz 20 C-2. Does the DPM2 trigger your SB-28?

I couldn't find any smaller Sigma bounce flashes and I'd rather not use one of their huge flashes on a P&S.
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Old 11-14-2012   #91
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It does trigger it, but that is about it!

Doesn't see it in the menu, etc...

I will have a play again tonight!
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Old 11-14-2012   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burancap View Post
It does trigger it, but that is about it!

Doesn't see it in the menu, etc...

I will have a play again tonight!
Okay, thanks. I'm guessing only Sigma flashes will be linked to the DP2M and its menus. For other cameras I've had good luck with using thyristor flashes and setting the ISO and fstop according to the chart on the back of the flash to get a reasonable exposure, even if I can't see anything on the menus.
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Old 11-14-2012   #93
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I suspect that this has been posted previously, but this open letter from Michael Reichmann seems spot on.


http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sigma_dp1_merrill.shtml


"Dear Yamaki-san, You and I have never met, but I am an enthusiastic user of some of your products, in particular your new DP2 Merrill and DP1 Merrill cameras. My recent review of the DP2M and the one on the DP1M on this page bear testament to this.
I am writing this letter publicly, because I believe that I speak for a large number (though obviously not all) Sigma camera owners. This site reaches 1.4 Million individual readers world-wide each month.
I believe that many users of sophisticated imaging devices like the new Merrill cameras are being let down by not being able to process raw files in any program other than your provided SIGMA Photo Pro. The vast majority of advanced photographers, in particular those likely to use your Merrill cameras, use other cameras as well, and are almost certain to already be using raw processing software from Adobe, Apple, or Phase One, the big three of raw processing software.
I therefore would request one of two things. Either make available all the information required by these companies to support your camera's unique abilities, so that they are able to do so without the difficult (and unlikely) job of reverse engineering your unique file structure and processing. Or, please build into SPP the ability to export a DNG file, which can then be read universally, and which can contain your proprietary image processing. As you know, DNG is an open standard and available without license.
At the moment Sigma X3 files from the Merrill cameras are among the most remarkable files I have ever seen, from any camera, especially when it comes to per-pixel resolution. Every other camera maker in the world provides information and support to the major raw software makers so that their cameras can be supported, many even before product launch. Sigma finds itself disadvantged by not doing this, or by not supporting a universal raw export format that can be read by other programs. This indeed may be a preferable approach since it would mean immediate support when new models come available, and wouldn't require providing on-going support and disclosure to third parties.
Please make this a priority. Right now Sigma Merrill X3 are the only raw files in the world from any camera maker that can not be worked on in third party raw software, some of which has superior capabilities and which would allow these camera's owners to extract everytting possible from these files. Hasselblad, Leica, and Pentax are among those directly supporting DNG from their cameras, while every other camera maker works closely to ensure that their raw files are supported in each revision of major third party programs. Phase One even works closely with Adobe so that Lightroom and Camera Raw support Phase One cameras, even though they are competitors in the raw software arena.
I urge Sigma to do similarly.
With respect,
Sincerely,
Michael Reichmann
Publisher – The Luminous Landscape"
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Old 11-14-2012   #94
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Mr. Reichmann's letter seems to have gotten no response unfortunately (unless Mr. Reichmann is no longer into the DP series and his review is old news to him).
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Old 11-14-2012   #95
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I'm guessing that Kazuto Yamaki has a lot on his agenda given that his father just recently passed. Given the nature of the letter, he would not respond with a 'no', or 'maybe'. The only response expected from me would be to ignore, or comply with the request. They haven't made the best marketing moves with their Fovean technology. Hopefully, they will discover the benefits of making life easier for their customers.... ie.. improved sales.
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Old 11-14-2012   #96
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Originally Posted by bwcolor View Post
They haven't made the best marketing moves with their Fovean technology.
I recall reading *somewhere* that they (Sigma) were making a concerted effort to reverse this and some of the bad press that has followed them. It may have even been on the Sigma site??? If I can find a link, I'll repost.
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Old 11-14-2012   #97
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Regarding the letter -I agree, though I am one of the few that kinda' likes SPP!
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Old 11-25-2012   #98
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
Which battery? I'd like to buy one.

More initial impressions. This camera can be too sharp... especially in very contrasty scenes. Also, the dynamic range feels worse than all of my other cameras (fuji X series and Leica M8). You really have to be careful with this camera in order to get the best out of it. Meter seems very sensitive too. Haven't figured out the best metering mode.
Are you shooting RAW and processing in SPP? I find the dynamic range pretty huge, at least the equal of a DR200 XPro JPEG. I can usually recover 1.5 stops in the highlights without issue, but if you blow a channel watch out (see below). But the out of camera JPEGs show fairly low DR.

SDIM0212_spp by ndjedinak, on Flickr

Here's a shot I intentionally took high-key, but just wanted to play with in DPP to see what I got. These arcs are fairly common if you blow a channel.

SDIM0050_spp by ndjedinak, on Flickr

Sometimes I think ISO200 has more headroom, although this is just a feeling, I haven't done enough testing to confirm. ISO400 is still good but you can get banding in shadows, SPP now has a tool to deal with this.

SDIM0166_spp by ndjedinak, on Flickr

I look forward to my DP2M sitting under the Christmas tree
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Old 12-12-2012   #99
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I finally made a print from the DP2m and all I have to say is wow. It's 20x30" and I can see every single little detail (even the smallest background text) and no artifacts of any kind. Amazing camera really.

I also made prints at this size from the M8 with a 35mm C-Biogon and a M9 with 50mm Summicron for comparison. At this size, the DP2m was the winner in sharpness and resolution. The more shocking thing was that an up rezzed M8 file wasn't to far off from the M9 with regards to sharpness and resolution.
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Old 12-12-2012   #100
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I ran a 24x36 in October from mine and feel the same way.

It is difficult to talk about the results from the Merrills without using excessive superlatives ... one might be accused of being a fanboy!
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Old 12-12-2012   #101
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Snapshoot

To samurais this camera I can say Ė The amazing files worth the time that you need to be on the computer.

Small size and Jpeg butÖ

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Old 12-12-2012   #102
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Originally Posted by jsrockit View Post
I finally made a print from the DP2m and all I have to say is wow. It's 20x30" and I can see every single little detail (even the smallest background text) and no artifacts of any kind. Amazing camera really.

I also made prints at this size from the M8 with a 35mm C-Biogon and a M9 with 50mm Summicron for comparison. At this size, the DP2m was the winner in sharpness and resolution. The more shocking thing was that an up rezzed M8 file wasn't to far off from the M9 with regards to sharpness and resolution.
This is why I have been thinking of using the sigma DP Merrill's as my main camera for 2013 and having rx100 as the backup. At the end of the year, how mainly keepers from the sigma dp1 and dp2 Merrill versus the rx100? How many times will I end up forced to use the rx100 due to higher iso requirements? Just those three cameras for the year.

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Old 12-12-2012   #103
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This is why I have been thinking of using the sigma DP Merrill's as my main camera for 2013 and having rx100 as the backup. At the end of the year, how mainly keepers from the sigma dp1 and dp2 Merrill versus the rx100? How many times will I end up forced to use the rx100 due to higher iso requirements? Just those three cameras for the year.

Gary
That is *just about* where I have landed.

Excepting film, these three are the only cameras I have used in the last ~4 months -though my DP1 is an original.
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Old 12-12-2012   #104
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That is *just about* where I have landed.

Excepting film, these three are the only cameras I have used in the last ~4 months -though my DP1 is an original.
Also a good way to keep me from buying up every new Fuji x-mount lens they release... Actually only the 14 and 27 are on my hit list

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Old 12-12-2012   #105
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Also a good way to keep me from buying up every new Fuji x-mount lens they release...
Well, a few months ago I had basically drawn a line in the sand. To proceed -I was to turn left and go with Fuji or turn right and go with Sony/Sigma (discounting the OM-D). I am happy with my direction but I say that having never tried an X100. I sometimes wonder if I could replace all of them with an X100 -but that is for another thread.

The little RX100 has kept me busy the last few weeks -time to get the DP2M off the shelf.
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Old 12-12-2012   #106
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Well, it is only a matter of time before I grab a DP1m. If LR ever supports it, then they will have taken care of the only bummer this camera gives me at this point.
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Old 12-12-2012   #107
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Well, it is only a matter of time before I grab a DP1m. If LR ever supports it, then they will have taken care of the only bummer this camera gives me at this point.
Adobe, apple and others will follow the money. Right now sigma foveon based cameras are just not popular enough to invest in support.

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Old 12-12-2012   #108
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Yeah, I know it's a long shot, but one can dream.
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Old 12-13-2012   #109
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Well, a few months ago I had basically drawn a line in the sand. To proceed -I was to turn left and go with Fuji or turn right and go with Sony/Sigma (discounting the OM-D). I am happy with my direction but I say that having never tried an X100. I sometimes wonder if I could replace all of them with an X100 -but that is for another thread.

The little RX100 has kept me busy the last few weeks -time to get the DP2M off the shelf.
I've had some of those--rx100 was amazing for its size, but ultimately left me cold. XPro had superb IQ but frustrating UX.

I settled on the DP1m as my carry-anywhere friend. I may add a DP2m and have a killer travel duo.

I really enjoy the Sigmas. They do, ahem, falter at high ISOs, though.
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Old 12-13-2012   #110
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Itís been 2 weeks now, and my impression of the DP2M is good, but Iím glad I didnít sell my DP2. I donít think we need another review, but the DP2M is bigger than the DP2 and the files are huge. Iíve also notice some distortion which is a bit of a bummer. I donít think these shortcomings are a deal breaker, but I have a deeper appreciation the DP2.
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Old 12-14-2012   #111
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Itís been 2 weeks now, and my impression of the DP2M is good, but Iím glad I didnít sell my DP2. I donít think we need another review, but the DP2M is bigger than the DP2 and the files are huge. Iíve also notice some distortion which is a bit of a bummer. I donít think these shortcomings are a deal breaker, but I have a deeper appreciation the DP2.
Hmmm... the distortion comment is interesting. Can you add to that?

I do agree with some of your comments. I still have the original DP1 and I am on the fence regarding the size difference with my DP2M. I like both bodies. One thing for sure is that I really miss the wheel.

What I can offer is that I think the earlier releases are really great, underappreciated cameras -quirks and all. The DP1 with its size, brilliant lens, still incredible files at ~15mb, and selling in the 200-300USD range is a veritable steal.
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Old 12-14-2012   #112
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Hmmm... the distortion comment is interesting. Can you add to that?

I do agree with some of your comments. I still have the original DP1 and I am on the fence regarding the size difference with my DP2M. I like both bodies. One thing for sure is that I really miss the wheel.

What I can offer is that I think the earlier releases are really great, underappreciated cameras -quirks and all. The DP1 with its size, brilliant lens, still incredible files at ~15mb, and selling in the 200-300USD range is a veritable steal.
Hey Jeff, Iíll try to post some examples of the distortion when I get home tonight. I just attributed the distortion to the difference in focal lengths(41 to 45) Iím not sure if that makes sense, but I know I didnít have this problem with the DP2.

The size thing is personal I really like the size of the DP2 and if you factor in handling, the DP2 is the clear winner. Another thing that kind of bugs me is lens position. It just looks weird to me.

All that said, the DP2M is in another league. It is like an almost pocket-able MF camera. The LCD is a lot better. The AF is better, and the lens doesnít expand/collapse. I guess Iím still attached to the DP2, and Iím dreading the learning curve. Oh yes, the MF wheel will be missed as well !

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Old 12-15-2012   #113
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I really like this camera. It comes as close to film as one can get with digital.
And it being not bulky, it looks like a point and shoot, but the images I get from it are more pleasing than from my 5D MKIII with L lenses.
Total stealth camera, and images look great.

I snapshoted this evening, btw - this is at an art opening in Portland, books signed by photographer Neil Krug



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Old 12-17-2012   #114
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All that said, the DP2M is in another league. It is like an almost pocket-able MF camera. The LCD is a lot better. The AF is better, and the lens doesn’t expand/collapse.
Sure is... if they ever make a model with high ISO, fast AF, and LR support, I may never use anything else.
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Old 12-18-2012   #115
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Hey Jeff, Iíll try to post some examples of the distortion when I get home tonight. I just attributed the distortion to the difference in focal lengths(41 to 45) Iím not sure if that makes sense, but I know I didnít have this problem with the DP2.
Smith
*UPDATE*
My copy was defective. I sent it back for an exchange this morning. The main problem was the sensor producing bad files. I don't think this had anything to do with the distortion. After carefully checking my pictures, the ones with the distortion were not level so I may have made a mistake in my critique .
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Old 03-21-2013   #116
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Thanks to Keith, In his dp2m thread today I posted the results from high iso testing I had been meaning to do. I am duplicating it in this thread for completeness.


Quick hand held shots from today.. Nothing special, just picked something that was easy to show color bleed as iso got higher.. ISO 200 to 6400. I did not use any of my normal punchy processing in these shots that are posted. The shots are made using mid size raw (around 22-23mb each), converted to tiff16. Noise setting in the sigma raw processing sw was set at -2 for all three noise values. The b&w were converted from the tiff16 using Silver FX Pro2 - high structure/smooth setting.

ISO 200 @f5.6



ISO 400 f5.6



ISO 800 f5.6



ISO 1600 f8



ISO 3200 f8



ISO 6400 f11



Also note that if u use large RAW instead of mid size as I did, I have seen about 1/2 to 2/3 stop improvement in when the color fringing effect starts showing up. I used mid for this test since this is my default normal raw size.. I tend to switch to large when I think the subject matter warrants it.

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Old 03-21-2013   #117
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Since I cannot post more than 15 images at a time. Here is continuation of images...

The iso 1600 pictures using noise setting in Sigma raw processor of 0 and +2 values...

ISO 1600 f8 noise setting at 0 instead of -2 for all three noise settings



ISO 1600 f8 noise setting at +2



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Old 04-02-2013   #118
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Some more testing. All noise setting are the same chroma 0 Luminous 0 banding 0. With the new fw update process and the spp monochrome update, b&w seem to do pretty good now. Anyway u judge. These are all shot at f2.8, don't go looking for absolute best sharpness. This lens is at its best around f5.6. Medium size raw and in camera picture setting - contrast -.4 saturation -.2.

What is kind of neat is that the raw image now seems to have a flag that says mono and spp automatically brings up the monochrome dialog. However all the color info is still there. All u need to do is go to color tab to c the color image. The base 0 chroma 0 luminous 0 banding does not seem to have that handy handed feel any longer w/ new version of spp.

Here is the control set of shots at iso 800 noise - color followed by b&w shot. Note that there are tinges of a copper green cast that are iso 400 is not there.





The iso 1600 pictures. Note the copper green color shift... It just gets worst after this so no more color shots.





The iso 3200 shot



Iso 6400



I might be imagining, but w/ the new fw and spp versions, iso 1600 b&w looks a bit better than before. Iso 3200 looks about what the previous iso 1600 was and 6400 is quite usable. Color is about the same for, no change is my opinion of acceptable iso usage.

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Old 04-02-2013   #119
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Gary, that 1600 shot looks really great in black and white.

I need to experiment more, but I think 1600 is really my usual upper limit for B+W.
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Old 04-05-2013   #120
Keith
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Having finally got around to putting a battery in the DP2M last night I have to say I'm in shock ... especially after owning an OMD briefly. The menu system is very basic to say the least.

And ... it needs a grip. The body is quite slippery in the hands.

Also rather startling to put in an 8gig card and see that you only have 135 exposures available!
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