Review of pre-production Leica Monochrom

[raytoei@gmail.com]

this forum has many grumpy old men, mostly under 40s

[leicashot]

Originally Posted by Moriturii

So I guess you're just trolling then. Good work, nice to be reminded why I stopped coming to Leica orientated forums.

[leicashot]

Originally Posted by raytoei@gmail.com

this forum has many grumpy old men, mostly under 40s

Absolutely. The grumpy old men over 40 know better that to waste their time being rudely argumentative....and they have more time to do so.

[ChrisN]

Just for anyone interested in some real world (well, not my real world, but ...) photos made with the MM, Seal has quite a few tour shots on his Flickr page.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sealsong/

[leicashot]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

Just for anyone interested in some real world (well, not my real world, but ...) photos made with the MM, Seal has quite a few tour shots on his Flickr page.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sealsong/

Thanks Chris, though not sure you can see anything from black and white pictures on the internet. Only direct comparisons of files and 100% crops would suffice for actual clarification, but I appreciate the link.

[BobYIL]

Originally Posted by leicashot

Sorry but I have to disagree. Those websites can be a good guide but the is no (pardon the pun) black and white in this area. I doubt Leica would go this route if what you're saying is true. At the end of the day, until a legitimate comparison review is made or I test myself, such assumptions, and it is 'assumptions' are purely that - assumptions.

Although a new reviewer, Ming Thein would be the best reviewer/photographer on the internet. i believe what he says 100%. Why else would Leica entrust him to be the very first? http://blog.mingthein.com/2012/05/23/leica-m-monochrom/

What could be said to a man who says having the D800E and does not believe in what he saw...

The first one is from Ming Thein's MM & Apo-Summicron, enlarged to 175cm then cropped:



The second one is from http://pcfoto.biz/na-prvi-pogled-nikon-d800e (#19, taken with a 70-200 zoom (!) on a D800E) again enlarged to 175cm, converted to B&W and cropped:



Do you see some differences? Do you still believe "Ming Thein would be the best reviewer/photographer on the internet."??

Mr. Thein's review is no justice to the actual resolution power of the MM, neither to that of the D800E. Does your D800E have the crappy resolution like in Mr. Thein's samples???

I too have a D800E and I see that even with the lowly 50/1.8G, my ordinary shots have more resolution than Mr. Thein's samples, be them from the MM or the D800E.

As I was repeatedly mentioning, let first the MMs reach to the hands of actual users as well as the established test sites so we can have an idea about the dynamic range, hi-ISO characteristics, resolution, etc., instead of listening to the internet myths. And one of the actual testers will be YOU, for you have a reference-class FF in your hand...

[fstops]

The reviewer lauds the removal of bayer filter in front of the sensor but then he puts one of those color filters in front of the very expensive lens and by extension the sensor.

How the four of them did not notice that bit of irony during this review is surprising.

[Keith]

The first few photos I looked at in Seal's flickr stream have some wickedly blown highlights. He's no dummy photographically so obviously the MM is tricky in this department and the camera does have it's own learning curve!

[rxmd]

Breathlessness and nostalgia don't go well together.

[leicashot]

Originally Posted by BobYIL

What could be said to a man who says having the D800E and does not believe in what he saw...

The first one is from Ming Thein's MM & Apo-Summicron, enlarged to 175cm then cropped:



The second one is from http://pcfoto.biz/na-prvi-pogled-nikon-d800e (#19, taken with a 70-200 zoom (!) on a D800E) again enlarged to 175cm, converted to B&W and cropped:



Do you see some differences? Do you still believe "Ming Thein would be the best reviewer/photographer on the internet."??

Mr. Thein's review is no justice to the actual resolution power of the MM, neither to that of the D800E. Does your D800E have the crappy resolution like in Mr. Thein's samples???

I too have a D800E and I see that even with the lowly 50/1.8G, my ordinary shots have more resolution than Mr. Thein's samples, be them from the MM or the D800E.

As I was repeatedly mentioning, let first the MMs reach to the hands of actual users as well as the established test sites so we can have an idea about the dynamic range, hi-ISO characteristics, resolution, etc., instead of listening to the internet myths. And one of the actual testers will be YOU, for you have a reference-class FF in your hand...

These are not direct comparisons. I never said the D800E wasn't as good as the MM and I couldn't care less if it does. You were talking about the dynamic range being two stops behind, but this does not address that issue, and I seriously doubt it's even worth discussing. But bagging the MM without using it or having direct comparisons is a waste of time. Ming Thein is not a technical tester. He is a photographer, like myself, so I give him credit where it's deserved, and don't criticise him for what he doesn't do and/or care about. Simply, I favour reviewers who actually know how to shoot, not review.

I intend to test the MM myself soon, and honestly have no intentions on sharing the results because the internet is becoming a very nasty place for negative activity, especially amongst the stereotypical crowd of snobby Leica or rangefinder users who use these forums to take out their daily frustration. DPReview is good for that.

From now on I refuse to get into any such discussions. Surely there are more positive things to do.

[Turtle]

You might want to think through this bit of logic again

I'll give you a clue: it is completely flawed on two levels.

Originally Posted by fstops

The reviewer lauds the removal of bayer filter in front of the sensor but then he puts one of those color filters in front of the very expensive lens and by extension the sensor.

How the four of them did not notice that bit of irony during this review is surprising.

[dave lackey]

Originally Posted by leicashot

These are not direct comparisons. I never said the D800E wasn't as good as the MM and I couldn't care less if it does. You were talking about the dynamic range being two stops behind, but this does not address that issue, and I seriously doubt it's even worth discussing. But bagging the MM without using it or having direct comparisons is a waste of time. Ming Thein is not a technical tester. He is a photographer, like myself, so I give him credit where it's deserved, and don't criticise him for what he doesn't do and/or care about. Simply, I favour reviewers who actually know how to shoot, not review.

I intend to test the MM myself soon, and honestly have no intentions on sharing the results because the internet is becoming a very nasty place for negative activity, especially amongst the stereotypical crowd of snobby Leica or rangefinder users who use these forums to take out their daily frustration. DPReview is good for that.

From now on I refuse to get into any such discussions. Surely there are more positive things to do.

A voice of reason. Thanks for that as it is a wise person who understands that trying to change a mindset is insanity in itself.

The first problem with working with that mindset is the name Leica... too many bashers around.

The second problem is with comparing an excellent photographer's work (whether it be Ming Thein or Seal) with something else NOT done by the one doing the comparison is so scientifically f'ed up so as not to be worth discussing.

And there are so many other problems with discussing the M monochrome that to continue arguing is not wise in the least.

We are, after all, friends, right? Colleagues, right? Or have I missed something? Forum cannibalism is to be avoided.

I prefer to take photographs. One day I hope to have my own M monochrome and will take photographs. No need to continue discussions like this IMO.

Thorsten says it best, pick the camera you love and USE it!

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by BobYIL

....The first one is from Ming Thein's MM & Apo-Summicron, enlarged to 175cm then cropped:..

Ming gave his permission for you to use his copyrighted picture?

If not; will you please ensure the image is deleted from the thread.

.............. Chris

[wafflecakee]

Well I hope a few of you liked the video. The three of us only got to shoot the camera for about 10 minutes each but it sure is fun to shoot.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by wafflecakee

... but it sure is fun to shoot.

Does fun count for anything these days?