And another...

[Dralowid]

Just found this one on Ebay UK.

To be honest, I am at a bit of a loss as to what to say about it but will let someone else start first!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEICA-BLAC...#ht_500wt_1203

Over to you!

Michael

[ruby.monkey]

What made you notice this one?

[Sparrow]

... that paint looks a bit odd ... but then I know nothing much about this sort of thing

[Erik van Straten]

In any case the body-covering is not genuine. (I'll stay on the safe side now!)

Erik.

[xayraa33]

That Summitar lens looks post war with that modern F stop numbering sequence.

Leica Tom is the man to analyze this one, as he is very much expert on these stepper Leica IIIc from this era.

[L David Tomei]

I would also trust Tom's assessment of this one. To me, the cover isn't of great concern though it doesn't appear to be original, they are changed so easily. The rest of the body has the appearance of being a war time grey painted model that had been upgraded some time before 1953 with a BD shutter synch. The speeds all look as expected. However, the lens has received an updated post-war iris and f stops. Both case and lens retain the Heer engraving which leads me to ask where the engraving is on the body. Leitz may have replaced the upper housing with the white painted engraving and if so, they would not have re-engraved Heer.

Some painted IIIc's had been stripped and re-chromed after the war or simply repainted, but Tom would be so much more knowledgeable.

[Dralowid]

One of my thoughts would be that if Leitz themselves had replaced the upper housing they would have used one with the flash sync numbers on it rather than the screw on plate...but let's wait for Tom.

[L David Tomei]

Actually this type BD synch plate was commonly used on painted bodies. This is due to the fact that engraving the top plate of the painted early IIIc would have been much more work. You can see one of Tom's images of such a camera at http://photo.net/gc/view-one?classified_ad_id=903590. We have one in our collection as well.

Ciao!

[Dralowid]

I stand corrected (which is why I should have kept quiet and waited fro the experts)!

Michael

[L David Tomei]

If you knew how many times I boldly claimed something that was completely untrue regarding the history of Leicas, you would know with what trepidation I posted that comment. Anyway, I learn from the scholars like Tom. Ciao!

[Dralowid]

Well, it made good money.

It occurred to me after I had started the tread that the silence from the experts in this field concealed the fact that they were bidding....apologies to one and all.

Michael

[L David Tomei]

The same thought occurred to me when I saw the bids begin to build. I was thinking more about the fact that what we post here on RFF is searchable and information regarding such cameras should be as accurate and complete as possible. After all, some day that buyer may wish to sell the camera and potential buyers will likely do their searches which will influence the value. This is perhaps more important when considering good fake Leicas (not the swastika festooned ones) that have the potential of fooling the "experts" again, ...and again.

[Dralowid]

So perhaps we should endeavour not to bring items currently in a live listing to the attention of the group?

[L David Tomei]

Originally Posted by Dralowid

So perhaps we should endeavour not to bring items currently in a live listing to the attention of the group?

This is an interesting question IMO. Perhaps you should open a new thread and get some opinions.

[S.H.]

I tend to avoid signaling these kind of things : all of the fun is finding these all by yourself, no? And the more people know about something, the higher the final price too. If the RFF was smaller it would matter less, but it has a huge audience.

But after the fact, I (and others too it seems) like to post about what I caught : that is very interesting to have a closer look at something without "competing" to have it : it is much easier to share knowledge in this way.

This is just my very personal opinion.

[L David Tomei]

After giving this some thought, I decided that in the future I will avoid making any comment on items currently in an auction. I don't wish to influence the bidding by expressing my opinion based on a couple photographs of a camera.

[ruby.monkey]

I wouldn't worry about that. I'm pretty sure that far more than just RFF shops for collectables on eBay.

[S.H.]

Of course, but RFF is also very popular and is a reference (like one or two other fora) : you can find detailed info on Zeiss Contax or Zeiss ltm or 1945 Leica IIIc for example. Moreover, it is indexed by Google and so is highly visible (the mailing list ZICG does not give results in Google for example). So any thread here can influence an auction.

[LeicaTom]

Ohh my, I just saw this, sorry..............Hmmmm this camera is a STRANGE BIRD!

First of all it's a REPLACEMENT top plate camera (postwar "stepper" factory redone) from a damaged or perhaps a real HEER camera?, note the Nr. before the serial number, this is a 100% giveaway that the camera has been repaired/has a replaced top from the factory.

Normal Leicas have no. before the serial number, also look at the strange gap between the 3 numbers, odd.

The numbers fall into the right era for Heer engraving, this was more than likely a Army camera that was de-militarized by the factory.

I DON'T buy the paint though as original factory though, it is thin and also the factory never used chrome screws to finish painted cameras.........and the case I think has been *newly stamped* Heer

I think that this camera was originally a Grey Heer camera (extremely rare) which was sent back to the factory ca, 1951/52 to be redone in chrome with a replacenment top and bottom plate and somewhere along the way the camera was painted Black by someone.

It was a odd camera (catch 22) and it made a little more $$$$ than I think it's worth, but if the lens turns out to be a real Heer it's worth MORE than the camera is!

Tom