a paypal warning

[Gabriel M.A.]

Originally Posted by jtm6

One time I sold about a half dozen items on feePay in a month. No problems ever since I created the account in 1999. I have transferred tens of thousands of dollars through the feePal account that feePay forces us to use. Never a problem. They determined they needed to hold MY money for a few weeks but wouldn't explain why. What???? Banks get away with all kinds of things, but nothing compares to paypal. Crooks.

Yep, this happened to me, and also a few sellers freaked out thinking it was me that wouldn't give them the money. They held the item for a month until PayPal let go of the funds. Eventually, more people realized that this was the new "normal".

They change their policy all the time, and can pretty much do anything they want. Once a serious competitor shows up (if), they will start getting religion and treat their customers better.

[Frontman]

I have had issues with both eBay and Paypal in the past, but after a thousand or so transactions, I can't complain all that much. No company, big or small, is perfect, and you are as likely to get ripped off at a mom-and-pop store as you are by a big corporation.

I and others here have had bogus Paypal transactions in which we thought we were paying to or being paid from Paypal only to find out that it was a sham site. Check the Paypal transaction verification email which you should have received within two minutes of sending your payment. No email? Then Paypal wasn't involved. If there was an email, check your bank statement or credit card statement for the transaction and use that information when you contact Paypal.

[jtm6]

Originally Posted by Gabriel M.A.

They change their policy all the time, and can pretty much do anything they want. Once a serious competitor shows up (if), they will start getting religion and treat their customers better.

I've seen similar conversations on other sites and they way the future predictions wrap up is the same: feePay owns feePal, we have no choice because feePay dictates we must use feePal, and they don't care about the small players. They are trying to grow into THE giant online shopping site but do nothing but process transactions and collect fees from sales between third parties. Meanwhile, Amazon is coming from the other direction. In the end, everyone will join The Collective and play by their rules if they want to get any business at all.

[ReeRay]

Something else to be aware of connected with PayPal. 10 minutes ago I received a PayPal message that my recently acquired item could not be delivered by UPS as " address incorrect" and "please follow the link for details". I haven't ordered anything as of late!

It's malware - be aware if you receive such a message.

Coincidence or what?

[Igor.Burshteyn]

that sucks, seriously.
I am a software engineer "in the know", that's why every time I use paypal or any other means of money related transaction over internet, I never know if it is going to be ok this time.
There are too many things that crooks (not a legitimate "other end") can do in order to steal your money. Man in the middle, browser plugins, etc etc, you name it.
All that said, I still use paypal/ebay. As everything in the modern world, they are built to serve legitimatize customers with minimal headache. Adding layers of security would make paypal/ebay very hard (if not impossible) to use. Paypal has its own merits, at least you are not giving away credit card information on every transaction. Remove paypal from your equation, and just imagine effects of giving away to some crooks your credit card details.
In your situation, I would contact your credit card company and claim fraudulent misuse of your credit card. Credit cards companies usually almost immediately refund your money (if your your credit history proves you are ok) and then investigate your case.
With regard to online security, there are a few things to do, depending on the paranoia levels
- use browser that you never update with plugins
- use it on a "sandboxed" operating system/HW, preferably linux over dedicated or virtual machine
- never, ever get to paypal site from mail links
- before supplying your credentials over internet, always check certificates of the "other end"

[willie_901]

Does anyone else think that Nik's site was hacked and the PayPal links were compromised?

[semordnilap]

Originally Posted by willie_901

Does anyone else think that Nik's site was hacked and the PayPal links were compromised?

This is possible. If so Nik should clearly take responsibility.

Anyway, definitely write something on Nik's facebook page if you don't receive a satisfactory answer. If Nik was hacked you may find that you're not alone.

https://www.facebook.com/niksoftwareinc

[John E Earley]

Originally Posted by jtm6

I've seen similar conversations on other sites and they way the future predictions wrap up is the same: feePay owns feePal, we have no choice because feePay dictates we must use feePal, and they don't care about the small players. They are trying to grow into THE giant online shopping site but do nothing but process transactions and collect fees from sales between third parties. Meanwhile, Amazon is coming from the other direction. In the end, everyone will join The Collective and play by their rules if they want to get any business at all.

Since I wouldn't agree to sign up for Paypal's credit card or give them my bank info, they cut me off. Since then I have been buying on feeBay by using USPS money orders. Some sellers won't deal that way but I've found that most will. If they won't, I don't bid.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by willie_901

Does anyone else think that Nik's site was hacked and the PayPal links were compromised?

Could be. But it is not particularly likely, such a incident would have many victims, and their reactions would be quite public and very easy to google - and there is nothing like it audible on the net. It is more likely that John's computer/browser has been individually compromised - in which case other victims might have been hit at entirely different and unrelated webshops. Or he followed a link to some bogus site - in the past months I have received several spam mails of highly dubious origin offering Nik FX...

[grdglass]

I believe banks cover this type of fraud. Nik and Paypal treated you shamefully.

[jtm6]

Originally Posted by John E Earley

Since I wouldn't agree to sign up for Paypal's credit card or give them my bank info, they cut me off. Since then I have been buying on feeBay by using USPS money orders. Some sellers won't deal that way but I've found that most will. If they won't, I don't bid.

Wait a sec... USPS money orders? Do you live in the USA? I was under the impression that sellers could only use paypal to receive payments from sellers that won auctions on eBay. It wasn't always that way, of course. Maybe it changed back to being open to alternatives. I use it so rarely that it is always a learning experience to figure out the new hoops.

[navah]

Emraphoto,

I see you were in contact with Allison yesterday regarding the issue. The order was immediately declined, and you were not charged. However, what you are seeing as a charge is actually a pending authorization. Pending authorizations are created by your financial institution when an order is declined, just in case we are able to process the order.

After talking to you, Allison contacted our credit card processing company PayPal, in order to see what exactly was the problem. She emailed you, as well as called and left a voicemail, so she can help you get the hold completely removed. Please respond either to the email she sent, or call Allison back, so that we can assist you in this matter.

You can reach our Customer Service Department toll free at 1-888-284-4085 (+1-619-725-3150 outside of the US). Our office hours are Monday through Friday 8:30 am to 5:00 pm PST.

Best Regards,
Navah
Nik Software Customer Support Specialist

[willie_901]

Originally Posted by sevo

Could be. But it is not particularly likely, such a incident would have many victims, and their reactions would be quite public and very easy to google - and there is nothing like it audible on the net. It is more likely that John's computer/browser has been individually compromised - in which case other victims might have been hit at entirely different and unrelated webshops. Or he followed a link to some bogus site - in the past months I have received several spam mails of highly dubious origin offering Nik FX...

That's interesting and helpful. Thanks.

[emraphoto]

Originally Posted by navah

Emraphoto,

I see you were in contact with Allison yesterday regarding the issue. The order was immediately declined, and you were not charged. However, what you are seeing as a charge is actually a pending authorization. Pending authorizations are created by your financial institution when an order is declined, just in case we are able to process the order.

After talking to you, Allison contacted our credit card processing company PayPal, in order to see what exactly was the problem. She emailed you, as well as called and left a voicemail, so she can help you get the hold completely removed. Please respond either to the email she sent, or call Allison back, so that we can assist you in this matter.

You can reach our Customer Service Department toll free at 1-888-284-4085 (+1-619-725-3150 outside of the US). Our office hours are Monday through Friday 8:30 am to 5:00 pm PST.

Best Regards,
Navah
Nik Software Customer Support Specialist

so a follow up to the debacle...

It appears a big thank you goes out to Allison from Nik Software as she has done all the work to get my money back in my hands.

Paypal on the other hand did nothing to communicate with me what was happening and I suspect that without Allison's work, I would have never received my funds back.

[paulfish4570]

huzzah!!!!

[David Murphy]

No the rules did not change back. Buyers and sellers on US eBay are still "required" to use credit cards or PayPal. Many sellers will take other forms of payment in violation of the eBay terms of service (TOS). Since eBay has a long history of treating sellers poorly and unethically (and it keeps getting worse), many sellers have no ethical problem violating the TOS. The eBay TOS are also sparsely enforced unless sellers really do something egregious like directly ripping-off customers.

I don't violate the eBay TOS, instead my response is to rarely sell there these days. The reason is that the very worst anti-seller development on eBay in recent years was to do away with feedback for buyers. The upshot has been a huge upsurge in the number of unpaid auctions since buyers always have positive feedback and cannot be sanctioned for bad behavior. Despite a seller not being paid, eBay still merrily collects the now very expensive final value fees on a seller. The charges can be recovered by following eBay's slow and cumbersome "Un-paid item process". This absurd "process" is designed not to help sellers, but to actually discourage them from collecting owed monies and impede the recovery of fees automatically charged to them by eBay not legitimately owed.

Too bad - as it once was a great marketplace for all.

Originally Posted by jtm6

Wait a sec... USPS money orders? Do you live in the USA? I was under the impression that sellers could only use paypal to receive payments from sellers that won auctions on eBay. It wasn't always that way, of course. Maybe it changed back to being open to alternatives. I use it so rarely that it is always a learning experience to figure out the new hoops.

[Paul T.]

Originally Posted by David Murphy

No the rules did not change back. Buyers and sellers on US eBay are still "required" to use credit cards or PayPal. Many sellers will take other forms of payment in violation of the eBay terms of service (TOS).

IN the UK at least, this is incorrect. You are allowed to take other methods of payment - the restriction is simply that you have to accept Paypal, but not exclusively. Indeed, the listing software requires you to specify what other payments you take (Check, cash on delivery etc).

Of course, the distinction is fairly meaningless in that everyone is now used to paying with PayPal, only twice in my last 30 or 40 sales have I been asked to accept COD. And, honestly, I would rather take PayPal than a check.

[sanmich]

John, happy that your problem is solved.

The question remains for someone outside the US:
even if you don't use ebay (I prefer to stay away), is there an alternative to paypal to pay or get paid?

[John E Earley]

Originally Posted by David Murphy

No the rules did not change back. Buyers and sellers on US eBay are still "required" to use credit cards or PayPal. Many sellers will take other forms of payment in violation of the eBay terms of service (TOS). Since eBay has a long history of treating sellers poorly and unethically (and it keeps getting worse), many sellers have no ethical problem violating the TOS. The eBay TOS are also sparsely enforced unless sellers really do something egregious like directly ripping-off customers.

I don't violate the eBay TOS, instead my response is to rarely sell there these days. The reason is that the very worst anti-seller development on eBay in recent years was to do away with feedback for buyers. The upshot has been a huge upsurge in the number of unpaid auctions since buyers always have positive feedback and cannot be sanctioned for bad behavior. Despite a seller not being paid, eBay still merrily collects the now very expensive final value fees on a seller. The charges can be recovered by following eBay's slow and cumbersome "Un-paid item process". This absurd "process" is designed not to help sellers, but to actually discourage them from collecting owed monies and impede the recovery of fees automatically charged to them by eBay not legitimately owed.

Too bad - as it once was a great marketplace for all.

This is not correct. Although eBay restricts the payment methods, it is done primarily as a way to keep sellers from "playing" with the "payment/fee" system. The restrictions are directed at sellers "requiring" payment other than PayPal or credit card. Payment by money order is acceptable as long as the seller reports the receipt and has a PayPal account or other method for eBay to extract their fee. The TOS may have changed previously but having just read it, those are the facts today.

[Teuthida]

PayPal is located in Omaha NE. call the Attorney General's Office in Nebraska and file a formal complaint. Works like a charm.

[Ken Ford]

Originally Posted by jordanstarr

...this is why I always bootleg software

Then you won't mind if I stop by when you're not home, kick your door in and "bootleg" your possessions?

[raid]

Originally Posted by emraphoto

so a follow up to the debacle...

It appears a big thank you goes out to Allison from Nik Software as she has done all the work to get my money back in my hands.

Paypal on the other hand did nothing to communicate with me what was happening and I suspect that without Allison's work, I would have never received my funds back.

This is what counts. Good for you, John.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

Something seems off here... like we are missing key pieces of information about the situation.

How can you pay for something via paypal yet paypal is saying they have nothing to do with it? What did I miss?

That has been my thoughts EXACTLY. But it doesn't matter much anymore.

[gdi]

Originally Posted by David Murphy

No the rules did not change back. Buyers and sellers on US eBay are still "required" to use credit cards or PayPal. Many sellers will take other forms of payment in violation of the eBay terms of service (TOS). Since eBay has a long history of treating sellers poorly and unethically (and it keeps getting worse), many sellers have no ethical problem violating the TOS. The eBay TOS are also sparsely enforced unless sellers really do something egregious like directly ripping-off customers.

I don't violate the eBay TOS, instead my response is to rarely sell there these days. The reason is that the very worst anti-seller development on eBay in recent years was to do away with feedback for buyers. The upshot has been a huge upsurge in the number of unpaid auctions since buyers always have positive feedback and cannot be sanctioned for bad behavior. Despite a seller not being paid, eBay still merrily collects the now very expensive final value fees on a seller. The charges can be recovered by following eBay's slow and cumbersome "Un-paid item process". This absurd "process" is designed not to help sellers, but to actually discourage them from collecting owed monies and impede the recovery of fees automatically charged to them by eBay not legitimately owed.

Too bad - as it once was a great marketplace for all.

The change to feedback has been a real pain for sellers. but I think it was a result of the sellers screwing it up themselves by using feedback extortion. It became very common that sellers would pester you to leave feedback first and only then would they leave positive in turn for positive.

Now feedback is largely meaningless.

[enasniearth]

I have a lot of gripes with PayPal over the years , they seem to have an iron fisted cold war mentality in dealing with customers .
On the other hand I have as a seller had the customer service be very helpful with problems . It is important to call during regular business hours so you can talk to someone located in the united states . If you call at other times you speak to someone overseas , they are very nice to you , unfortunately most times they can provide no help , other than to read back to you what you see on the website .
Even after you reach someone in the us
The downside is they can help with the process , however you still have to do the work , from putting tracers on shipped items to updating the process with them through calls and emails .
If you buy make sure you pay with a charge card through PayPal not a balance this allows you another avenue if some thing goes badly .

In the end you have a worldwide audience to sell an item , can probably get the best price for your item , and someone handles the money transfer for you .
The ebay fees have gotten very high from the 2.9 % 12 years ago to 9% currently , also PayPal I think has doubled fees since eBay purchased them .
Gone is the golden day of the postal money order and bid pay who arranged payment to you by western union money order .
Back then it was an auction site , I bought some clunkers I was stuck with .
Now it is an online store ,

Prices are way down since the crash .