Jobo CPP-2: current status, alternatives?

[buzzardkid]

Hi all,

Recently i've ended up in conversations about home developing of C-41 and E-6 more than once and it got me into thinking about this again.

Just now I scoured the internet on recent information on the Jobo CPP-2 processing machine but info as old as 2001 turned up easily while newer info is nowhere to be seen.

Anyone got any current information on the Jobo processing machines CPE, CPP and CPP-2, or a lead to some decent alternatives?

Thanks!

[Jamie123]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

Hi all,

Recently i've ended up in conversations about home developing of C-41 and E-6 more than once and it got me into thinking about this again.

Just now I scoured the internet on recent information on the Jobo CPP-2 processing machine but info as old as 2001 turned up easily while newer info is nowhere to be seen.

Anyone got any current information on the Jobo processing machines CPE, CPP and CPP-2, or a lead to some decent alternatives?

Thanks!

I think Jobo just announced the CPP-3 on friday which is set to be released in October so if you want a new one you can get it. Price will be around €2500 though, so that's a lot more than what the used CPA's and CPP-2's are going for.

A friend of mine has a CPA-2 and does his own C-41 processing. The machine is pretty easy to operate and he gets consistent results with the Rollei C-41 kit. The machine is big, though.
Also, if you get one make sure it inculdes the lift.

[Roger Hicks]

There's someone in Germany who does (almost) all the parts for Jobos -- he had a stand at last photokina -- but when you're used to second-hand prices, new bits are alarmingly expensive (but almost never needed).

I'd not bother with anything other than Jobo EXCEPT the Nova hand line (no longer in production and I've not tried the current single-tank version). New Nova heaters are expensive but there's really nothing else to go wrong.

Cheers,


R.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

Anyone got any current information on the Jobo processing machines CPE, CPP and CPP-2, or a lead to some decent alternatives?

As already said, Jobo just announced a CPP-3. The -2 series processors haven't been made for a few years, but use the same components and drums, still made by Jobo.

The pre -2 processors haven't been made for something like 25-30 years. They are pretty reliable (some claim they are better made than any more recent series) and often are still in quite a good shape.

However they cannot be equipped with the "Lift" lever arm (originally supposed to be an accessory, but by now effectively standard - you won't find any processing time tables for lift-less rotary Jobos) and won't couple with Lift style cog wheel drums.

Pre Lift processors used a ring magnet on the drum floor for coupling. Jobo now only sell manual inversion (uncoupled) and cog wheel coupler drums, and have done so for many years, so that it can be hard to find spares any more.

If you buy a used pre-Lift (or Lift-less) Jobo, make sure it comes with all the magnet coupled drums you need! And try to go with the still current snap lid drums (for a few years these were made in a magnet version) - the first generation screw lid series tended to unscrew in rotary processors.

[Rhodes]

As said, the new model is almost here, and (for me) very expensive. You can buy a cpe-2 with or with out lift, they normal sell for 140/150 €, but it depends, I bought mine on bay.de and even used, it was pretty well and then a lift for a 150€, but did the first c-41 developemnts with out it. The lift saves times and all.

[buzzardkid]

Well,

EUR 150 sounds a lot better than the 500 euros a dutch seller is currently asking online for his CPP-2

That Type-3 processing machine is waaay over my budget! Come to think of it, almost anything is at the time.

It might be feasible in the future though and I'd like to keep tabs on things.

[Jamie123]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

Well,

EUR 150 sounds a lot better than the 500 euros a dutch seller is currently asking online for his CPP-2

The CPP-2 is the most expensive of the used ones as it was the top of the line (before the CPP-3 was announced). The ones between €100-200 are usually CPE-2's or CPA-2's. I would look out for a CPA-2 as it offers almost as much as the CPP-2.
The differences between the two are as follows (from the JOBO website):

"1 The temperature is set, displayed, and controlled digitally with the CPP-2. The temperature is set, controlled, and displayed with an analog dial and indicator light on the CPA-2.
CPA-2 Controles CPP-2 Controles

2 The CPP-2 has a Cold Water Solenoid which allows processing at below room temperature. This solenoid also provides more rapid cooling of the tempering bath when changing from a higher to a lower process temperature. To accommodate the additional water from the solenoid, an overflow elbow is provided on the rear of the trough. "

If you're doing mostly C-41 you'll do fine with a CPA-2 as the processing temperature is above room temperature (for most climates at least). If, however, you do a lot of bw it could be more practical to go for a CPP-2 so you don't have to cool down the chemicals in the fridge before you use them.

[loquax ludens]

If you don't have a source of chilled water and your water supply is not cold enough for B&W processing in the CPP-2 or CPA-2, you can add ice to the water bath to get it down to the temperature you want for B&W processing. The water bath is around four gallons, so as long as your ambient room temperature is anywhere in the normal comfort range, the water bath will hold at your target temp for long enough to go through at least a couple of processing cycles before you need to adjust it again.

[buzzardkid]

Thanks guys,

I will then refrain from the CPP-2, since I do not need to cool the water in the Jobo. Tap water is always cold where I live anyway.

So, a CPE-2 or a CPA-2 is what I'm going for then. Now, let's hope that one turns up for a decent price, somewhere in September, October...

[Jamie123]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

Thanks guys,

I will then refrain from the CPP-2, since I do not need to cool the water in the Jobo. Tap water is always cold where I live anyway.

So, a CPE-2 or a CPA-2 is what I'm going for then. Now, let's hope that one turns up for a decent price, somewhere in September, October...

If you can find a CPP-2 for a good price, by all means, go for it, otherwise I would look for a CPA-2 as it's better than the CPE-2 and is also quite easily available. Just keep in mind, though, that they are rather huge which may not come across in the pictures. It's probably best if you find one locally that you can pick up in person.

I have considered buying one a few times but I just don't have the space for it. However, they do seem to come up every now and then for very reasonable prices so just have patience.

[bob338]

I don't know how common ATL1000s are in Europe, but they are great machines for c-41 and e-6. I got mine from a friend, but I had to buy a water tempering unit(about $100.)
The whole system is automated, just put the chemicals in, put the tank in and you're done. It has about 15 pre-programmed processes built in, i think there are 2 or 3 for e-6, and about a dozen for b/w, and one for c-41. You can make adjustments to the times, but I've never tried doing it.
I've seen them sell for around $1k around here, but they don't come up for sale very often.

[buzzardkid]

Today I've been reading about a CPP-2 and this ATL1000 machine being given by friends to the lucky owners...

Guess I need to find me a friend!

[Jamie123]

The ATL certainly looks very nice on paper but as far as I know it's not ideal for the casual user. I've never used or seen one in action but I think they need a fair amount of care and cleaning so unless you have rather large volumes of film to process you're better off with one of the CP line.

[.... _]

Originally Posted by buzzardkid

Thanks guys,

I will then refrain from the CPP-2, since I do not need to cool the water in the Jobo. Tap water is always cold where I live anyway.

So, a CPE-2 or a CPA-2 is what I'm going for then. Now, let's hope that one turns up for a decent price, somewhere in September, October...

My personal view is that any of the cp models are useful only for colour processing where you need a tempered water bath. For B+W that isn't necessary cos room temp keeps chemicals stable for long enough.
All of the CP models require manual intervention for chemical changes which means you can't walk away from them for long enough to make it worthwhile. So the only benefit is it does the agitation for you. Well I figure I can do that without the aid of a machine. I don't see the point for B+W processing.
The fully automated ATL machines are a different story. Set it going and leave it. Far better.

[.... _]

One other thing, if you want to use the expert (3000 series) tanks for large format processing then I think you need at least the CPP-2 cos the tanks are too big for the cpe and cpa models. And they are also too big for the ATL1xxx machines. ATL2xxx or ATL3xxx are needed for fully auto withose tanks.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by tog

One other thing, if you want to use the expert (3000 series) tanks for large format processing then I think you need at least the CPP-2 cos the tanks are too big for the cpe and cpa models. And they are also too big for the ATL1xxx machines. ATL2xxx or ATL3xxx are needed for fully auto withose tanks.

IIRC the CPA-2 can deal with them too - it is a tight fit, but it does fit. In the long run you will overload and wear out the gears, so it is not recommended, and a CPP-2 is certainly advisable for large volume processing.

Expert drums don't fit at all on the CPE-2 and ATL1000 - the drums hit the rear edge respectively bottle magazine before they are even immersed. There are hacks published out on the net (involving some plastics welding in the case of the CPE-2, and a DIY cover and bottle holder on the ATL), but given the even weaker motor and gears on these small machines it is debatable whether you do yourself a favour by overloading them with a oversize drum.

ATLs often are cheaper than CPx-2 processors these days, sometimes you can even pick them up for free - other than the CPx-2 series processors they are quite uneconomical for intermittent low-volume processing, and it is not always possible to find a buyer that still has the necessary film volume to run a processor several times a week within a economical shipping distance. Try and call through a list of the local photo studios and postprocessing labs - someone might still have one in his attic.

[Jamie123]

Originally Posted by tog

My personal view is that any of the cp models are useful only for colour processing where you need a tempered water bath. For B+W that isn't necessary cos room temp keeps chemicals stable for long enough.
All of the CP models require manual intervention for chemical changes which means you can't walk away from them for long enough to make it worthwhile. So the only benefit is it does the agitation for you. Well I figure I can do that without the aid of a machine. I don't see the point for B+W processing.
The fully automated ATL machines are a different story. Set it going and leave it. Far better.

As sevo has said, you can use the 4x5 drums with the CPA-2 and this is also one of the areas where it's really useful to have a rotary processor as you need a lot less chemicals.
If you're using a CPA-2 with lift the manual intervention consists only of moving the lever to empty the tank and filling in the next bath. True, it is sort of the same as with manual processing but a lot smoother and more convenient. The ATL might save you some time during the processing stage but unless you process a lot of film that doesn't make up for the time spent cleaning the thing with all the tubes inside and whatnot.

[.... _]

Originally Posted by Jamie123

As sevo has said, you can use the 4x5 drums with the CPA-2 and this is also one of the areas where it's really useful to have a rotary processor as you need a lot less chemicals.
If you're using a CPA-2 with lift the manual intervention consists only of moving the lever to empty the tank and filling in the next bath. True, it is sort of the same as with manual processing but a lot smoother and more convenient. The ATL might save you some time during the processing stage but unless you process a lot of film that doesn't make up for the time spent cleaning the thing with all the tubes inside and whatnot.

the cleaning process on an atl just involves filling tanks with water and running it through the cleaning cycle which means just set it going and leave it. It's NOT a problem. Maybe if you buy a used one you might strip it down and thoroughly clean it before use but day to day use it's easy.

[gdi]

A few years ago I bought a Phototherm Sidekick. They are great machines, fully automated and fit on a desktop (with the solution bottles stored under it of course). You can have B&W, E-6, and C-41 ready at all times, just select the process you want and push a button and wait til it tells you its finished.. Far more space friendly than a Jobo, and it uses no bath, it heats the solutions as needed during the process. I never used the Jobo after buying it.

They should be available for $4-500 in the US.

[Fotohuis]

Info about the new CPP-3 from Jobo:

http://photoscala.de/Artikel/Automat...bor-Jobo-CPP-3