Image Sharpness of Summicron-C 40mm

plittman · 06-20-2012

I have recently purchased a CLE and both Summicron-C 40mm and Elmar-C 90mm lenses.

Despite having read many reviews about how sharp the 40mm lens is, I can't help feeling disapointed by the results from this lens. The images just don't seem that sharp. I'm defining sharpness as how focussed and clear the image appears when I enlarge the JPEGs or TIFF scans.

The 90mm lens appears to produce sharper images, and I had use of a new 28mm ASPH Elmarit which was significantly better again.

I'm shooting only Provia 100F, and scanning images on a Coolscan 8000 at 4000 dpi.

As far as I can see, the Summicron is perfectly clear and in great condition.

I don't believe it is a rangefinder calibration issue as I'm getting good results from the Elmar 90mm and the Elmarit 28mm.

Any thoughts? Thanks..

Beemermark · 06-20-2012

I'd say the Summicron probably has more resolving power then your film, so the problem might lie in post processing.

kevin_v · 06-20-2012

Could you offer any examples? (Of the 40 and the 90 or 28) Could it be high resolution, low acutance?

plittman · 06-20-2012

I'll upload some examples when I get home tonight. Thanks

rbelyell · 06-20-2012

interesting. i dont doubt your experience, all i can say is mine has been the opposite. i have and love both lenses, but the 40 seldom comes off my camera as i feel its one of the best, sharpest lenses ive ever used, RF or slr.
tony

BobYIL · 06-20-2012

What lens do you know as sharp? Would you believe if I say it's as sharp as the Summicron 35/2 asph. except at f2, not only on film but on digital too? It's one of the sharpest Leica lenses, there must be some other problem..

plittman · 06-20-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobYIL

What lens do you know as sharp? Would you believe if I say it's as sharp as the Summicron 35/2 asph. except at f2, not only on film but on digital too? It's one of the sharpest Leica lenses, there must be some other problem..

On the CLE, my only experience has been the 28mm ASPH, and 90mm Elmar-C. From the results I have obtained, both perform better.

The sharpest images I have taken come from the 50mm and 75mm lenses on my Mamiya 6MF, but it's an unfair comparison given the format difference.

gilpen123 · 06-20-2012

Pretty sharp lens here's one sample I was able to retrieve. Taken with the CLE.

rbelyell · 06-20-2012

plitman, i believe on this point you are a lemming, so i would indeed look to your lens for a problem. send it infor a cla. probably the best $50 you'll ever spend.
tony

ps that first picture drew blood it was so sharp! ):

raid · 06-20-2012

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6299856&size=lg

I compared the Summicron-C to a Pentax 43mm/1.9L. Both lenses are superb lenses.

plittman · 06-20-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbelyell

plitman, i believe on this point you are a lemming, so i would indeed look to your lens for a problem. send it infor a cla. probably the best $50 you'll ever spend.
tony

ps that first picture drew blood it was so sharp! ):

Good idea about the CLA. I will have that done as soon as possible. Will still upload some samples tonight. I'm interested to have another perspective on this. I just don't know if the resolution will be sufficient on the forum to make a comparison.

mfogiel · 06-20-2012

Set the lens to F 5.6 and MANUALLY set it to infinity, then put the camera on a tripod or use 1/1000th of a sec shutter speed if possible. Then see the results - if they are still unsharp, it means either the lens has been reassembled by a dog, or it is off relative to infinity - in both cases it should be adjusted. Normally, you should get images like that:

2008070520 by mfogiel, on Flickr

plittman · 06-21-2012

Here is a sample from each lens. Apologies for the mundane subjects and not sure of the size limits on the forum will allow the differences to be seen:

Summicron-C 40mm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8089226...in/photostream

Elmarit 28mm ASPH

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8089226...in/photostream

The images others have posted using their Summicron-C lens' look clearer than mine (I think)

Elmar-C 90mm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8089226...in/photostream

If any one has time to take a look, interested to hear your comments on the differences.

mfogiel · 06-21-2012

I do not see a particular sharpness problem in this photo at your max viewing size. However, the DOF is quite substantial - maybe you were shooting with apertures like f11 or f16 ? In this case, the relative lack of "crispness" could be attributed to diffraction.
Try to test the lens at f 5.6.

jonmanjiro · 06-21-2012

I'd say its more of a scanning issue rather than a problem with the lens. Was this shot below taken in Cronulla by any chance?

MAY 12 4 by drumalbyn, on Flickr

plittman · 06-21-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonmanjiro

I'd say its more of a scanning issue rather than a problem with the lens. Was this shot below taken in Cronulla by any chance?

MAY 12 4 by drumalbyn, on Flickr

No. This is north end of Bondi beach. Beautiful autumn / winter day. I'm not sure it's the scanner. They are all scanned at the same settings on my 8000ED. Going to take the 40mm in tomorrow for CLA. Will see how it goes when I get it back.

jonmanjiro · 06-21-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by plittman

No. This is north end of Bondi beach. Beautiful autumn / winter day. I'm not sure it's the scanner. They are all scanned at the same settings on my 8000ED. Going to take the 40mm in tomorrow for CLA. Will see how it goes when I get it back.

Oh, its Bondi. I knew it looked familiar. I clearly need to get back home more often...

FWIW your scan doesn't look any worse than some scans I get from my Coolscan 5000. The film only has to be sitting a little "un-flat" for sharpness to be adversely affected. I've seen several times from lenses I know to be sharp. Do you use anything to help hold the film flat?

k__43 · 06-21-2012

I've stopped judging lens sharpness by shooting slide - it seems like sometimes scanners just don't get that medium right. Use low ISO b/w film.
Also the asphalt of the sidewalk on your shot seems quite sharp - dunno where your focus was.

I find the cron-c to be sharp, just not in the corners when shot at f/2.
thinking about it I might not be able to sell it (as I intended) - it's so nice.

plittman · 06-22-2012

I have taken my lens and body into Foto Riesel here in Sydney today to be adjusted and calibrated. Hoping that will make a difference.

Palaeoboy · 06-22-2012

The 40mm Summicron is a slightly sharper lens than the Elmar-C so one should expect the other way around to what your experiencing. The shot at Bondi looks like you well stopped down past the lens' sweet spot. Shoot a bit more around 2.8 to 5.6 and you wills see some magic there. It wont be as sharp as the ASPH till 5.6 but it does have a charm all its own. My favourite Leica lens for sure.

plittman · 06-28-2012

So - diagnosis from leica repair person is that my lens is badly out of alignment. He's going to reset and adjust. Due back next week. I'm keen to test it out again and hope to get the sort of results the other forum members have spoken about. At least I know now that I wasn't going crazy. Not quite the $50 one of the people talked about - $280. But so long as it makes a big difference, I'm happy to pay it.

plittman · 07-23-2012

Wow, I just scanned my first roll of slides after having the lens adjusted and aligned. What a difference!! I can see what you guys were talking about when you said this is a great lens.

http://flic.kr/p/cC8gKN

http://flic.kr/p/cC87Lq

http://flic.kr/p/cC7ZGf

David Hughes · 07-29-2012

Hi,

May I say how pleased I was to read your last post?

Regards, David

plittman · 07-30-2012

Thanks David. I'm just glad that it has worked out well. I was worried I'd bought a dud!

sparrow6224 · 08-02-2012

Just to note for the record, the high priest of Wetzlar, king of the MTFs, Erwin Puts ranks the 90mm Elmar-C above the 40mm Summicron-C. If I recall correctly he puts the Summicron-C somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd iterations of of the 35mm Summicron, but the Elmar he praises more lavishly. Someone ele here will ahve the text to hand to verify or refute... I'm awfuly glad though that you solved your problem. The CL and the 40mm were my first camera/lens combo, bought in 1980 from a waiter I knew, likely hot I'm sorry to say. $275 for the set, which is almost $800 now. Legit outfits would have charged much more of course. The way Pan-X and Tri-X looked out of that camera, that's what I thought all photographs ought to look like. It was a perfect match of character with my aesthetic and I've never really shaken it. For a Leica lens it's not, to my eye, the sharpness that shouts (though it's plenty sharp as we've seen here), but the contrast and the tones. I don't own a lens that handles blacks and dark grays as beautifully as the 40mm Summicron.

For anyone interested there's a "show me your 40mm" thread in the Optics forum. Check it out. They do look different. People say the Rokkor 40mm is just as good but in that way I'm talking about, I don't think so. the VC 40/1.4 however.... that gives the Summicron a run. But it still doesn't have the full character.