Zeiss Sonnar ZM

[swmlon]

I am looking to buy the C-Sonnar soon (once a store actually has one in stock or one becomes available on this forum) but I have one (probably so obvious bordering on stupid) question regarding optimisation for this lens.

Can I assume that if it is optimised for f1.5 that it is optimised for the film cameras like the Ikon or M2/3/4/6/7/P and not for digital rangefinders like the RD1 and M8/9?

Thanks

[Mark T]

I don't know. Don't worry aboutit. It's a great lens and can be enjoyed as is.

[Black]

Originally Posted by swmlon

Can I assume that if it is optimised for f1.5 that it is optimised for the film cameras like the Ikon or M2/3/4/6/7/P and not for digital rangefinders like the RD1 and M8/9?

Thanks

It shouldn't matter. The Sonnar is optimised for f/1.5 as early versions were not and experienced focus shift. Its due to the make up of the Sonnar design. All that has happened is the focus shift can be experienced a few stops down. Which bothers me not, as I shoot the Sonnar wide open, without exception.
Whether you shoot film or digital, it would make no difference to this issue, in so far as I can see.

[DamenS]

Originally Posted by swmlon

Can I assume that if it is optimised for f1.5 that it is optimised for the film cameras like the Ikon or M2/3/4/6/7/P and not for digital rangefinders like the RD1 and M8/9?
Thanks

No - why would that be the assumption ? If it is optimised for f1.5 then it is optimised for f1.5, if for f2.8 then for f2.8 - anything else would be unsubstantiated internet forum rumour-mongering with intent. Most of the lenses now will come optimised for f1.5 - enjoy ... and if you can't enjoy that, at least all the Konica "KM" mount lenses won't focus properly on Leicas due to the differing flange differences ... and neither will the Leitz CL lenses due to the different Cam angle ... sheesh !!

[BobYIL]

Originally Posted by swmlon

I am looking to buy the C-Sonnar soon (once a store actually has one in stock or one becomes available on this forum) but I have one (probably so obvious bordering on stupid) question regarding optimisation for this lens.

Can I assume that if it is optimised for f1.5 that it is optimised for the film cameras like the Ikon or M2/3/4/6/7/P and not for digital rangefinders like the RD1 and M8/9?

Thanks

I have the old Sonnar (Opton) as well as the new C-Sonnar too (both in black and chrome).

All 50mm Sonnar designs, new or old, exhibit focus shift due to residual spherical aberrations; so does the Summilux 50 pre, Summilux 35 pre, Summilux 35 Asph. v.1, even the latest formula Summicron 50 (just a little bit; see my post related to Focus-Shift.)

The C-Sonnars used to come out of the factory optimized for f2.8, the later production was for f1.5. Assuming you would buy the later production, you would notice the focus shift at close distances moving to backward of the plane you focused @f1.5 as you stop down to say f4.. How much? Just about two inches. How to take care of it: If you shoot f1.5- f2 then don't mind.. if you shoot f2.8 or f4 then try to focus just couple of centimeters behind the point of your actual focus. Example: Shooting at f1.5 or f2; distance about 1m, focus on the eyes you will get the eyes sharp. Shooting at f2.8 or f4; distance again about 1m, focus on the ears you will get the eyes sharp. (Or focus on the eyes first and then move your head two inches backward before pressing the shutter.)

Anything beyond 2m of focus, do not mind, it will be within the DOF. Anything to be shot f5.6 or smaller at any distance then do not mind again.

These are for ANY M-mount, be it for film or digital. On the Liveview bodies like NEX, m43, etc., you see where you focus so it is no issue at all.

I have various 50mm Leica lenses and the C-Sonnar too. Sonnar is my favorite 50; using it on the M-bodies as well as on the Nex. It has a different signature than all other 50mm lenses I use.

[kshapero]

I had a C-Sonnar chrome and I used it on a Zeiss, M3, M6, M7 and R-D1. I do not even know what focus shift is. It was a tremendous performer with all those rigs and I was an idiot to sell it.

[whitecat]

Call Popphoto and talk to Tony. When I bought mine, there were some prone to shift and others (later) that were not. I never had a problem.

[Richard G]

I have one. Before I got the M9 I did some tests and could not decide whether mine was optimised for 1.5 or 2.8. In the end I forgot about focus shift and just used it. I love this lens at all apertures. It is beautifully balanced, strong construction, great ergonomics.

Here is a link to my formal tests with the M9 confirming why just forgetting about focus shift worked for me with my copy of the lens.

http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00aKSW

[jsrockit]

Many used ones are optimized for 2.8 (and some people will not know what it is optimized if they used it on mirrorless live view cameras). As much as people say this does not matter... it does for some folks because it is annoying. It shifts a lot on digital rangefinders. Film masks it a little better according to internet lore.

[mcaplin]

My favorite lens hands down for portraits of people and things. Draws beautifully on film and digital alike. The focus shift is easily learned and accommodated if necessary but as has been mentioned, shoot it wide open 100% of the time anyway

[Speedfreak]

Originally Posted by swmlon

Can I assume that if it is optimised for f1.5 that it is optimised for the film cameras like the Ikon or M2/3/4/6/7/P and not for digital rangefinders like the RD1 and M8/9?

No, its optimised for 1.5 on all rangefinder cameras.

I have asked the question about "optimization" maybe two years ago and Zeiss told me, the very early lenses were optimized for f2.8, then they went to f1.5. They could not tell me serial numbers as they did not record anything.

[swmlon]

Thanks for the feedback. Now I just need to be patient and wait for a used one optimised at 1.5 to pop up somewhere. The price new (if I can find one) is a little steep.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by Speedfreak

No, its optimised for 1.5 on all rangefinder cameras.

I've certainly had two Sonnar 1.5 lenses that were optimised for 2.8 that I used on the M8 and M9.

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

I've certainly had two Sonnar 1.5 lenses that were optimised for 2.8 that I used on the M8 and M9.

Yeah, but those weren't optimised for 1.5 like the OP's...
But then it's probably a non-issue anyway.

[kxl]

Once you get one optimized for f1.5, get an ND filter (or two) so you can shoot it at f1.5 all the time, even with 400 speed film .

That's what I did when I had mine, although my need for an ND filter (in sunny Southern California) may be different from yours (in the UK)

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by rxmd

Yeah, but those weren't optimised for 1.5 like the OP's...
But then it's probably a non-issue anyway.

Ah, I see...my fault. I misread the question.

[swmlon]

I found a reputable dealer within the UK that has this lens in stock, but they tell me the lens is optimised for f2.8 as all the lens are, I'm a bit confused as I was under the assumption that later batch of lens was set for f1.5 and that if I want to get this done through Zeiss it would be an additional £60.
This smells iffy to me.

[EdwardKaraa]

Focus shift is really a very minor issue. Most lens/camera combinations will probably produce larger inaccuracies. I prefer a lens optimized for 2.8 because wide open it will just very slightly front focus, which is easy to compensate for.

[jsrockit]

swmlon. I tried a 50mm Sonnar at a camera show (Zeiss booth) and it was not optimized at 1.5 either. I think there's some misinfo on this lens out there...

[viboons]

Mine was optimized to 2.8 when purchased but got Zeiss reoptimized to 1.5 with no cost. You can get it done like me if your is still under warrantee.

Originally Posted by swmlon

I found a reputable dealer within the UK that has this lens in stock, but they tell me the lens is optimised for f2.8 as all the lens are, I'm a bit confused as I was under the assumption that later batch of lens was set for f1.5 and that if I want to get this done through Zeiss it would be an additional £60.
This smells iffy to me.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa

Focus shift is really a very minor issue. Most lens/camera combinations will probably produce larger inaccuracies.

Can you explain this? On the M9, this lens shifted more than any other lens I've used...and by large amounts.

[john_s]

A lot of them were made optimized at f2.8. I had one for a couple of weeks and it's the only lens I've ever had that had enough focus shift to cause serious out of focus pictures. At least if you have one optimized for f1.5 the corrections would all be in the same direction (stepping backwards with smaller apertures).

I would add that it's hard to know how old stock in a shop is even if it's unused. It's a pity that Zeiss are unable to give the serial numbers of the two versions.

[thomasw_]

Hey it is only a small backward 2-3 inch lean....and only when shooting at f2-4 at a close distance. It doesn't take much practice to master the technique But, of course, YMMV....I'm referring here to my copy which is optimized for wide open f1,5 use.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[Richard G]

mfogiel's test indicated troublesome focus shift with the f1.5 optimised version that he had, making it difficult to focus at f2.8 and f4. My 1.5 optimised version is slightly front focussed, shifting to slightly back focussed as it is opened up, so that from a practical point of view the focus shift is irrelevant for almost all situations. See my test referred to in the post above http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00aKSW.

[swmlon]

OK, so I guess the best thing to do is just to buy it and try it out and learn to get used to the characteristics of the lens before deciding whether I'd need to optimise it for 1.5 if needs be.

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how much it would cost (within EU) to get the lens optimised if it was purchased 2nd hand or out of warrenty?