New Leica CL owner with a question

[David Hughes]

Originally Posted by kutitta

Thanks David for your comment and your politeness - much appreciated..

I will definitely get it repaired, and actually no intention of selling it if the problem gets fixed.

I am actually now selling my Asahi Pentax Spotmatic F with three prime Takumar lenses including 50mm f/1.4 to raise some money for the repair. The set is on ebay now, and let's see how it goes.

Unfortunately I am a poor PhD student finishing his thesis- like many postgrads I survive with a very limited budget.. I just hope that almost two decades of tertiary studying will be of use one day!

Hi,

Well, if your luck with CL's is an example, then you shouldn't have any problems. Even so I'll wish you luck selling the other stuff on ebay.

The CL is a lovely camera it's one of only two I've had from new: although there are several I've bought again in that wonderful period when everyone was throwing out film cameras and going over to digital, poor things.

Regards, David

[kutitta]

Just a quick update...

Unfortunately Youxin Ye was not able to unjam the camera, but the good thing is that he offered a working Leica CL with a good price and I grabbed it. Both bodies are now on their way to Australia.

I will sell the defect body on ebay, but if there is anyone interested I can consider offers from RF members as well...

Hopefully I will share some photographs from my first roll pretty soon...

[Pablito]

Sherry Krauter is an expert on this camera if you decide to fix it after all. But don't ask for a CLA, you need a repair, not just clean, lube & adjust. May not be worth the price, though.

[kutitta]

Originally Posted by Pablito

Sherry Krauter is an expert on this camera if you decide to fix it after all. But don't ask for a CLA, you need a repair, not just clean, lube & adjust. May not be worth the price, though.

Thank you Pablito. I had Sherry in mind, but now that I have a working CL on the way, I just can't justify the repair cost. I have already paid for the working body to Ye, so the defect body will be on sale.

I also appreciate if anyone can let me know about the fair price of nonworking Leica CL...

[denizg7]

Originally Posted by kutitta

being a Leica owner was always a dream for me -

that is not a leica. shoulda bought the advanced minolta version, it's more advance than a real leica

[kutitta]

Originally Posted by denizg7

that is not a leica. shoulda bought the advanced minolta version, it's more advance than a real leica

Leica CL is not a Leica, but advanced Minolta is a real Leica...

sorry, but that just sounds a bit strange. If you are trying to say that Minolta CLE is a more advanced camera than Leica CL, I can understand that. But I find it difficult to understand you saying that Leica CL is not a Leica, sorry...

[denizg7]

Originally Posted by kutitta

Leica CL is not a Leica, but advanced Minolta is a real Leica...

sorry, but that just sounds a bit strange. If you are trying to say that Minolta CLE is a more advanced camera than Leica CL, I can understand that. But I find it difficult to understand you saying that Leica CL is not a Leica, sorry...

hmm let me try to explain it as simply as I can.

It is not made by Leica
and I am talking about the CLE

[David Hughes]

Well, it was designed as a Leica by Leica with Minolta's co-operation and help. Nothing unusual there; other M's and R's had design and component input from outside the firm. And vice versa, some Minoltas had Leica's input; so can they be called Minoltas?

Finding something completely and totally made in house by any firm is unusual. Some would say impossible as the plastics, alloys and glass would stop it being 100% pure.

And I have my doubts about Leica owning a farm, abattoir, tannery etc for the leather used to cover the bodies and make the cases but I'm happy to call them Leica made. Even though the clickers, skivers and machinists worked for a sub-contractor.

Equally the Minolta CLE had the 90mm lens made by Leitz so I guess you can't call it a Minolta camera...

Regards, David

[Palaeoboy]

Well, it was designed as a Leica by Leica with Minolta's co-operation and help. Nothing unusual there; other M's and R's had design and component input from outside the firm. And vice versa, some Minoltas had Leica's input; so can they be called Minoltas?

Finding something completely and totally made in house by any firm is unusual. Some would say impossible as the plastics, alloys and glass would stop it being 100% pure.

Absolutely Im always surprised when purists claim the CL is not a Leica. Its too quirky to be designed by Minolta. Look at that meter arm similar to no other camera but the M5 it just screams LEICA!

Equally the Minolta CLE had the 90mm lens made by Leitz so I guess you can't call it a Minolta camera

Actually this part of your post isnt quite true only the Leitz Minolta CLs 90nn lens was made by Leitz. The Minolta CLE lenses were Made In Japan by Minolta. The 90mm in fact shares a similar 4 element design to the Leitz version but Minolta changed it slightly and differs in performance.

[kutitta]

Originally Posted by denizg7

hmm let me try to explain it as simply as I can.

It is not made by Leica
and I am talking about the CLE

Thank you very much for David and Joel for the clarification. Upon reading denizg7's first comment, and of course as a new member of the Leica world, I had the feeling that there was something deep going on. Your comments were really helpful for me to see that the core issue was the Japanese input.

BTW, the Minolta input would only make me happy, as I am a dedicated Minolta user. My DSLR is (still) Konica Minolta Maxxum 7D and have no intention of buying another one until it dies. I also shoot with Minolta Maxxum 700si - a joyful camera. Minolta X570 was my primary camera for quite a while until it passed away around last Xmas....

I also see the point in denizg7's comment about Minolta CLE. It might well be better or more advanced camera than Leica CL, but the life is not a ceteris paribus game. It just happens that you see a Leica CL plus Summicron 40mm f/2 with $10 price tag, and you just buy it. You simply don't compare the camera with anything else at that spot. And also what Ye asked for his CL was a good price that would be hard to get on ebay or elsewhere, so I accepted it.

[David Hughes]

Hi,

It's very difficult to get to the truth about the Leica CL etc. I've a nice fat file of cuttings (started in 1973) and so on about them and there's all the internet comments. The more you see the more versions of the story you accumulate.

I doubt if we'll get anywhere without a couple of groups of us raiding Leica in Germany and Minolta in Japan and going through their archives. Somehow I can't see that happening: well, not this week.

My worry is that it will end up like the FED/Leica story and all the confusion about which side the USSR was on in WW2 and Contax etc. Now that's a real mess...

Regards, David

[kutitta]

First of all, I would like to thank you all again for your comments...

I have finally received my CL from Youxin Ye last week, and will post some examples from the first roll. There were few out of focus shots, which were entirely my fault obviously. The metering works and seems to be very accurate.

The only question I have is that the photos look reversed on the prints. For example in the first shot below, I was om the left side of the tunnel, so in the viewfinder the wall is on my left, but in the print it is reversed as you can see. I don't know I did something wrong when loading the film, or it was the print lab! I appreciate any advise on this!

I used Ilford XP2 Super 400 in this first roll!

Any comments, advise are welcomed and much appreciated!

I would like to add another lens to the kit, and obviously I have Elmar-C 90mm f/4 in mind, but what about Jupiter 9 85mm f/2? Do you think it would be a good idea to get that lens? I have a Russian friend living in Sydney, and her husband still live in Russia, and I can get that lens much cheaper (with a FED or Zorki body probably) than its ebay price from there, but is it worth it? (especially considering that Elmar-C is not so much expensive)

Anyway, here are some examples - they are not great photographs, but just to bring a happy end to this thread...

By the way I have sold the defect body for $120, so that was another piece of update...

[k__43]

Excellent!
nice shots too

[kutitta]

Originally Posted by k__43

Excellent!
nice shots too

Thank you!

[skibeerr]

What a wonderful story!

There is always some ... who tries to rain on any given parade don't worry.

About the reversed scan, did you scan it or the lab? When being scanned the film was placed the wrong way up. No drama's, you just reverse it back, any software like Iphoto etc. can do that.

Cheers,
Wim

[kutitta]

Originally Posted by skibeerr

What a wonderful story!

There is always some ... who tries to rain on any given parade don't worry.

About the reversed scan, did you scan it or the lab? When being scanned the film was placed the wrong way up. No drama's, you just reverse it back, any software like Iphoto etc. can do that.

Cheers,
Wim

Thanks mate, I am an Australian by choice, and one of the things I have learnt in this country is that do not change your plans (or your mind in our case) because it rains!

Thanks for the tip for the scanning error as well - so it was not me but the lab guy who did the scanning...

[David Hughes]

Hi,

So a happy ending. And some nice prints.

Now put the 120 towards a proper Leica 90-C f/4 lens. You won't regret it, then look for one of their nice fitted cases...

Regards, David

[kutitta]

Originally Posted by David Hughes

Hi,

So a happy ending. And some nice prints.

Now put the 120 towards a proper Leica 90-C f/4 lens. You won't regret it, then look for one of their nice fitted cases...

Regards, David

Yes, that's what I will do for sure, thanks heaps for the advise! But my Russian friend has found a mint Zorki 4K with Industar 50 f/3.5 and Jupiter 9 85mm f/2 and its viewfinder for around $50, so I'm getting that kit as well. It should be leaving Vladivostok sometime today. If I would have serious focusing issues with my CL as discussed in RD, I can simply use them with Zorki.

[David Hughes]

Originally Posted by kutitta

Yes, that's what I will do for sure, thanks heaps for the advise! But my Russian friend has found a mint Zorki 4K with Industar 50 f/3.5 and Jupiter 9 85mm f/2 and its viewfinder for around $50, so I'm getting that kit as well. It should be leaving Vladivostok sometime today. If I would have serious focusing issues with my CL as discussed in RD, I can simply use them with Zorki.

Hi,

Now that's another pleasant camera and with two nice lenses. But be careful, you are at the top of a very steep and slippery slope.

As for focusing issues, for portraits with the 85mm, try focussing on the eyes for one shot and the ears for the next. If the eyes come out in focus for the 2nd shot, then you know what to do. And if they come out in focus in the first shot then celebrate!

But, I guess you'll end up with the full CL kit, the full Zorki kit, then the full ................ kit (fill in as appropriate).

Have fun.

Regards, David

[kutitta]

Originally Posted by David Hughes

Hi,

Now that's another pleasant camera and with two nice lenses. But be careful, you are at the top of a very steep and slippery slope.

As for focusing issues, for portraits with the 85mm, try focussing on the eyes for one shot and the ears for the next. If the eyes come out in focus for the 2nd shot, then you know what to do. And if they come out in focus in the first shot then celebrate!

But, I guess you'll end up with the full CL kit, the full Zorki kit, then the full ................ kit (fill in as appropriate).

Have fun.

Regards, David

Hi David,

I see you your point in regards to being a very steep and slippery road, and that's what I actually confessed to my wife just last night. I have been shooting film quite a while with funny (according to her) cameras, but I mostly used film SLRs - my beloved Electro 35 GSN was the only rangefinder I had. But in the last couple of weeks, I don't even fancy shooting with my other cameras, even though I am deeply in love with the combination of Olympus OM-1n and Zuiko 50mm f/1.4.

Thank you very much for the focusing tip, a simple yet smart solution I reckon, much appreciated!

Best regards
Kutay

[David Hughes]

Hi,

In that case, don't ever look at an Olympus 35-Sp or the XA.

And tell her that people will often give you their old film cameras for free when they see you shooting with film. And do some huge enlargements that are beyond the range of digital. Fluffy kittens or grand children etc work best, imo.

Regards, David

[kutitta]

Originally Posted by David Hughes

Hi,

In that case, don't ever look at an Olympus 35-Sp or the XA.

And tell her that people will often give you their old film cameras for free when they see you shooting with film. And do some huge enlargements that are beyond the range of digital. Fluffy kittens or grand children etc work best, imo.

Regards, David

Thanks again David for your advise - but in order to speed up the process I will do an enlargement of our three-year old son - or a fluffy kitten our grandchildren are at least two decades away...

[David Hughes]

Hi,

All part of the service.

Ever since I typed that I've been worrying that you'll go straight out and start looking at Olympus 35SP's... Beware of them!

Regards, David

[kutitta]

Originally Posted by David Hughes

Hi,

All part of the service.

Ever since I typed that I've been worrying that you'll go straight out and start looking at Olympus 35SP's... Beware of them!

Regards, David

Hi David,

I just did a quick research on 35SP, and it seems to be an interesting rangefinder - with 42/1.7 Zuiko lens, centerweighted and spot metering plus AE etc... It was definitely ahead of its time. I also checked their prices on ebay, and they are not terribly expensive.

I am taking your advise and not buying it anytime soon though!

But is there any particular reason to beware of them?

Regards, Kutay

[David Hughes]

Originally Posted by kutitta

Hi David,

I just did a quick research on 35SP, and it seems to be an interesting rangefinder - with 42/1.7 Zuiko lens, centerweighted and spot metering plus AE etc... It was definitely ahead of its time. I also checked their prices on ebay, and they are not terribly expensive.

I am taking your advise and not buying it anytime soon though!

But is there any particular reason to beware of them?

Regards, Kutay

Hi,

Well, a lot of people (I'm one of them) rate them very highly and drool at the thought of getting one in mint condition in a charity shop...

The lens is well up to the standard you'd expect from a Zuiko and the rest of the camera is carefully thought out to be both a programmed and manual camera with both average metering and spot metering. Although I'm not 100% certain if the full range of combinations is available.

The handling is lovely, you can switch to the spot metering as quickly as you can think it and...

I'd better stop there! I had 250 + cameras in the collection and am trying to cut them back to one display case of about 6 or so. I'm nearly there with 6 dozen plus left and don't want to go hunting for another.

If your ears start burning any-time in the next month, you'll know why.

Regards, David