Super Fujica Six v Super Ikonta v Super ???

[christian.rudman]

So I shot recently with a Zeiss Nettar (517/16) and loved it, but I just really want something that is coupled for closer focus things, and with a faster lens for a little nicer dof control.

I was looking around online and a 532/16 sounds like the ticket, but I also stumbled across a Fuji Super Fujica Six and OMG that thing is gorgeous. I love Fuji glass and the way they render, but does anyone have any experience with that camera and confirm that it's as nice as the rest of their equipment? It's a pricey buy and almost never available, but it just looks like a great camera.

I would be spending a bit more on the Ikonta, but I have a lot of reference to go on with that camera, while there is barely anything on the Fujica.

Of course, I would also love cheap, so an Isolette or other is also a consideration. I want to do some research on these, but I really do want a nice RF folder without spending a couple grand on the new Fuji...

[jnoir]

A hidden gem: Ensign 220 Auto-Range. Pricey (and not that common) with Tessar lens, but with Ensar (triplet) is very affordable and still a good performer, small, portable and CRF, dual format 16-on-120 or 12-on-120 (hinged masks, so nothing to worry about missing masks)... The name may hint otherwise, but it does not take 220 film, only 120.

I had two, sold one but still keep and use the other (with coated Ensar)

I also have a post-war 532/16 MkII, and like the Fuji a lot, but most of them look problematic and I have yet to find one that I feel confident with enough to purchase.

[Brian Legge]

I like the Super Ikonta for handling - the size is perfect for me - but thats a personal call. I prefer the lens of the Super Isolette / Super Speedex for general sharpness and wider open use. The Certo Six has a cult reputation and is solid stopped down but I didn't care for how the lens rendered on the wider side at all. Lots of swirl, etc.

Wanting a coupled finder and nice DoF doesn't make it easy.

If you're into the thousands range, I'd really consider picking up one of the modern folders. They're larger but will blow everything else away optically.

[Beemermark]

Originally Posted by jnoir

A hidden gem: Ensign 220 Auto-Range. Pricey (and not that common) with Tessar lens, .

Hey, I got an Ensign. Sat on the fireplace mantle for years (decades) and finally, this year, I actually shot a roll of film in it. It is a very good camera and seems semi-rare here in the states. I'm not ready to give up stable of Super Ikontas though. How much is "pricey"? Maybe I'll put it in the classifieds.

[christian.rudman]

Originally Posted by jnoir

A hidden gem: Ensign 220 Auto-Range. Pricey (and not that common) with Tessar lens, but with Ensar (triplet) is very affordable and still a good performer, small, portable and CRF, dual format 16-on-120 or 12-on-120 (hinged masks, so nothing to worry about missing masks)... The name may hint otherwise, but it does not take 220 film, only 120.

I had two, sold one but still keep and use the other (with coated Ensar)

I also have a post-war 532/16 MkII, and like the Fuji a lot, but most of them look problematic and I have yet to find one that I feel confident with enough to purchase.

Thanks! I saw this report on the other Ikonta thread a few down, and will be looking into them. This is mainly about the Fuji, as I am a big fan of their products (cameras and film) and would love to pick one of those classy looking beasts up, but that is the same problem I am having when looking at them. Nothing online strikes me as a good purchase with that camera, but that is not so with the Ikonta. I'll check out the Ensign, thank you again!

Originally Posted by Brian Legge

I like the Super Ikonta for handling - the size is perfect for me - but thats a personal call. I prefer the lens of the Super Isolette / Super Speedex for general sharpness and wider open use. The Certo Six has a cult reputation and is solid stopped down but I didn't care for how the lens rendered on the wider side at all. Lots of swirl, etc.

Wanting a coupled finder and nice DoF doesn't make it easy.

If you're into the thousands range, I'd really consider picking up one of the modern folders. They're larger but will blow everything else away optically.

I just meant nice DoF in comparison to the 517/16's f/6.3 max aperture. I am definitely not in the thousands range, otherwise this thread wouldn't be happening and I'd have a Fuji folder on the way.

[citizen99]

Ensign Autorange 220, early (uncoated) Ensar :

January 2010 by johnnyh4, on Flickr

Ensign Autorange 220, late build (coated) Ensar :

The Knot of Rope, Thornbury by johnnyh4, on Flickr

Also a Super Ikonta III Novar (nice camera but I found the controls rather small and fiddly - ymmv)

The allotments, Thornbury, February 2010 by johnnyh4, on Flickr

[ruby.monkey]

The folding Mamiya 6 is well worth a look.

[jnoir]

Originally Posted by Beemermark

Hey, I got an Ensign. Sat on the fireplace mantle for years (decades) and finally, this year, I actually shot a roll of film in it. It is a very good camera and seems semi-rare here in the states. I'm not ready to give up stable of Super Ikontas though. How much is "pricey"? Maybe I'll put it in the classifieds.

Ensign is one of my favorite camera makers, they only made large and medium format cameras, they did not even produced a prototype for 35mm. They went out of business by early 60s. I think they are not so common (or known, at least) outside the UK.

When I say "pricey", in this case, I mean it mostly compared to the Ensar counterpart. Compared, e.g. with a Rolleiflex 2.8F, they are very cheap. I'd risk saying that it is worth 200 USD. With Ensar they can be easily found for half that price (I have not followed auction's prices lately, so take it with a pinch of salt).

[P C Headland]

The Fuji is quite a nice camera, with a decent (for a folder) view finder and rangefinder patch contrast is good. It seems well enough made, but it feels lighter and less substantial than the Certo Six, Super Ikonta III or Iskra. The Certo Six feels the most substantial. The Fuji certainly looks cool though.

The lens too is pretty decent, but not (in my opinion at least) quite to the same level as the Certo Six or Iskra. All the controls on mine seem lighter than the other cameras mentioned.

I hesitate to link to a photo on the web as a meaningful example, but hey, it's better than nothing I suppose!


Listening Posts?

Fuji Acros in Super Fujica-6 developed in PC-TEA

Overall, a pretty decent camera that is nice and easy to use. Given the choice between a Certo, Iskra, Super Ikonta III or Fuji, I'd go for either of the Eastern Bloc cameras first. If I wanted the best lens, it'd be the Certo.

[emmef2]

Originally Posted by christian.rudman

So I shot recently with a Zeiss Nettar (517/16) and loved it, but I just really want something that is coupled for closer focus things, and with a faster lens for a little nicer dof control.

I was looking around online and a 532/16 sounds like the ticket...

Super Ikontas are wonderful cameras, the 532 model is built and weighs like a tank, has a minimum focus distance of 5ft or 1.5m and takes 11 pics per roll.
I have never owned an Ensign camera but I see people say good things about them

[jnoir]

For the record, I finally found mine :-D

Will be testing it these days, will report my experience.

[PrecisionCamera]

Originally Posted by jnoir

For the record, I finally found mine :-D

Will be testing it these days, will report my experience.

That is a good looking set! Let me know how it goes, I'm interested to see the results!

[z.bruce.li]

I was eyeing for a Super Fijica Six too, lucky you got in such nice condition!

Back to original post. Out of the few folders I have used, if max aperture and close focus is concerned, I'm not entirely impressed by any of the front cell focusing Tessars. Probably better to go with unit focusing folders, such as Bessa RF/II, Super Isolette, Mamiya Six, or Fujica Six.

[citizen99]

... and the Ensign Autorange 220 is also unit focussing .

[oftheherd]

Originally Posted by jnoir

For the record, I finally found mine :-D

Will be testing it these days, will report my experience.

And with a box. Nice catch. Look forward to seeing the photos. I have two Fujis without RF. They are nice. One I have yet to use due to a dirty shutter I just can't find time to get to.

[chippy]

Originally Posted by christian.rudman

So I shot recently with a Zeiss Nettar (517/16) and loved it, but I just really want something that is coupled for closer focus things, and with a faster lens for a little nicer dof control.

I was looking around online and a 532/16 sounds like the ticket, but I also stumbled across a Fuji Super Fujica Six and OMG that thing is gorgeous. I love Fuji glass and the way they render, but does anyone have any experience with that camera and confirm that it's as nice as the rest of their equipment? It's a pricey buy and almost never available, but it just looks like a great camera.

I would be spending a bit more on the Ikonta, but I have a lot of reference to go on with that camera, while there is barely anything on the Fujica.

Of course, I would also love cheap, so an Isolette or other is also a consideration. I want to do some research on these, but I really do want a nice RF folder without spending a couple grand on the new Fuji...

i'm not sure why you say you would be spending more on the Ikonta? how much is the Fuji Super you are looking at?

generally speaking the 532/16 are about the cheapest (pre-war cheaper than post) way to get into a 6x6 with CRF (particularly combined RF and VF window). on the good side the 532/16 are very well built, extremely sturdy (probably rank the best built or at least among the best), they are also plentiful so you can pick and choose to get one thats in good condition (worth paying more to get a good one, they are buggers to work on). on the downside they only take 11 shots which is a bit of waste of film and money, about 8% at a guess which for me usually means i wouldnt and dont bother to use that camera, for some people though having the film advance system may help them save that shot that would be otherwise double exposed or missed with a manual red window set up, swings and roundabouts but only 11 shots is big negative to me (pun accidental ). also the 532/16 is front cell focusing which loses points for me

if i only had the choice between the fuji or 532/16 i would go the fuji super 6 (nice VF and user features), but there are quite few other 6x6 CRF camera i would choose ahead of them both, even though they may miss out on a feature or two, most would be of german origin (some mentioned by others above) although a couple of others are good too, eg. mamiya 6 (automatic) last version, not that keen on the earlier ones .

if i had to keep just one or two 6x6 w/CRF they would be the Agfa/Ansco Super Isolette/Speedex and the Welta Weltur, the later is a very simple camera in terms of function and mechanical build (quality built but simple) but has a number of small design/build features that make it a fine camera (amongst the best) to use without incident over many years, many of them would go by un noticed by the casual onlooker but things like the way the pressure plate is designed or that the lens returns to infinity by itself as you close the front door etc, its available with unit focusing tessar or the 5 element xenar that was only available for a few years (both fine lenses), also a couple of other lens options but those two are fairly common. the super speedex/isolette has more user features such as double exposure prevention and film spacing wind on etc, these are great so long as the camera is in good working condition, if they break down well, your in a bit of trouble. with its unit focusing solinar lens (coated) it takes beautifully rendered pictures that just have that hint of vintage to them, its among my favourite lens on these type camera. a brand new bessa 3 is stark/sterile and lacks character by comparison, the bessa also has pretty harsh contrast which can work against it with some subjects. apart from the price the bessa 3 is a fine camera, you tend to put it on dummy mode for exposure so its almost as easy as going click with a digital camera and that has its advantages but takes the fun out of it in comparison to using a vintage camera imo


cheers
chippy

[jnoir]

Originally Posted by chippy

i'm not sure why you say you would be spending more on the Ikonta? how much is the Fuji Super you are looking at?

In my experience (in Europe), Super Ikontas are more expensive than the Fujica. I regularly see Super Isolettes go for around 300 or 350 Euro (I sold one CLAd with new bellows for that price two weeks ago), a similar price than chromed, post-war 532/16 Super Ikontas on the bay. All-black Super Ikontas (pre-war) tend to go for at least a couple of hundred Euro.

My boxed Fujica went for half the price of a pre-war 532/16.

[chippy]

interesting, my experience is almost the opposite, i guess it depends on where you are and how friendly the camera gods are to you at the time. generally i find the pre-war S/Ikonta for about $150, tops, for a good one ,doesnt mean some people dont ask more but sometimes they can be had less, S/Fugica 6 more like $250 or even more sometimes, i dont see them much so scarcity comes into it i suppose (wish i lived in europe sometimes!), though the demand for them is equally low i would think. the Super Isolette i have often seen are usually pretty pricey @ $400+ (for an assured good condition camera) ,although occasionally one can be picked up cheaper





cheers
chippy