Modification of focus distance on a Horizon 202?

[ulrich.von.lich]

I'm not sure if I'll ever get an answer but I wonder if there's any Horizon 202 camera user (or of newer models) and if you know there's any workshop that would modify the focus distance, which I believe fixed at somewhere between 10 meters to infinity, to something closer.

Would it be something that an ordinary repairman can do? Or do I have to contact the factory?

[t6un]

I doubt it can be done any other way than by placing a weak positive lens element in front of the lens. It could be a DIY job if you have a spare filter mount. It would be unpermanent as well, and you would get two fixed focusing distances instead of just one. A local optometrist could help you with a lens.

Edit: The other way could be by adding a layer of material to the film rails. Sounds simple, but may have some complications...

[ulrich.von.lich]

Thanks for the ideas!

I'd prefer to have it fixed at say 2 meters permenantly and use the DOF to cover the rest. But the filter sounds indeed a more doable option. Is it like a close-up lens?

I saw people talking about optimising their Sonnar 50/1.5 to f1.5 or to f2.8 so I thought it'd be something like that to modify the fixed focus distance. If my memory serves right, Leica has also issued some fixed focus lenses for special purposes. I thought they could be adjust at will?

The film rails are not flat in the camera and I don't know if they can be modified.

[t6un]

The curved film plane is the reason why one, at least theoretically, can't just focus by moving the lens. It's optical center needs to stay aligned with the pivot in the center of film curvature. Maybe a fraction of a millimeter that you need is doable, but it still sounds like a very complex job to me.

So: either you shorten the focal length of your lens with what is effectively a close-up lens, yes, or you lengthen the radius of the film loop. For the latter I had in mind putting some strips of aluminium tape on the film rails, but as most Horizons already have problems with the friction in the film gate, I'm not so sure...

[sig]

http://www.flickr.com/groups/horizon...7611958350038/

one step closer but not all the way.....

[t6un]

I tried using a lens formula, and it appears that in order to bring the focus of a 28mm lens from infinity to 2m, you need to add 0,39 mm of height to the film rails; or alternatively, add 0,51 diopters to the lens power.

[ulrich.von.lich]

So I'll give up the lens modification idea. Had it be possible, it wouldn't be cheap anyway.

It's a pity the website showing the hack is down... I'll try the tape solution first.

t6un, thanks a lot for the information! Care to share how you calculated the numbers? Just in case I may want to have more than one focus distance.

Just out of curiosity, will the filter (diopter) trick bring down the focus distance of any lens? For example, to bring down the minimum focus distance (0.7m) of a Summicron to 0.5m? And I suppose and the infinity side will shilft down more than 0.2m?

[ulrich.von.lich]

Sorry if it's a stupid question: as to the film rail modification, why would adding height (so reducing the gap between the lens and the film plane) help focusing closer? Isn't a macro tube there to increase the gap?

[t6un]

Ulrich, I cant see where one could add the tape to reduce the distance between the film and lens? Of course you need to increase that distance. In case I wasn't clear before, by film rails I meant the two long shiny stripes besides the film gate in the camera body and not somethig on the back door, if there is anythin (idon't have a Horizon.)

I'll try to explain the calculation later today.

[ThomasM]

Why 10 meters? The instruction manual gives the following table (which I found true, based on my limited experience, since I've only shot three rolls with mine):

Depth of Field Table for the HORIZON-202 Camera Lens

Aperture Depth of field, m
2,8 5,5--∞
4 3,9--∞
5,6 2,9--∞
8 2--∞
11 1,5--∞
16 1--∞

[ulrich.von.lich]

10m is the focus distance of the camera. The ranges are only "covered" by the DOF. For example while using f16, I can see clearly a difference in sharpness between my subject at 1m and the items at infinity, even if the former falls in the range. Plus sometimes the light simply doesn't allow you to use f16.

So it depends how do you use your camera. In my case, I need to bring down the focus.

[ThomasM]

Originally Posted by ulrich.von.lich

10m is the focus distance of the camera. The ranges are only "covered" by the DOF. For example while using f16, I can see clearly a difference in sharpness between my subject at 1m and the items at infinity, even if the former falls in the range. Plus sometimes the light simply doesn't allow you to use f16.

So it depends how do you use your camera. In my case, I need to bring down the focus.

I see your point now. Good luck.

[ulrich.von.lich]

Originally Posted by t6un

Ulrich, I cant see where one could add the tape to reduce the distance between the film and lens? Of course you need to increase that distance. In case I wasn't clear before, by film rails I meant the two long shiny stripes besides the film gate in the camera body and not somethig on the back door, if there is anythin (idon't have a Horizon.)

I'll try to explain the calculation later today.

Yes of course. I was being stupid. You had been clear and I had understood correctly the film rails. But I forgot it's the other side where you would load the film!!!

I would still like to know how to calculate those numbers though.

Cheers

[t6un]

Yes of course. I was being stupid. You had been clear and I had understood correctly the film rails. But I forgot it's the other side where you would load the film!!!

And here's my math homework:

This is the "thin lens equation," copied from Wolfram Alpha:
1/i+1/o = 1/f
where
i | distance between image and lens
o | distance between object and lens
f | focal length

In the case where the lens is focused at infinity, 1/o is zero, consequently i=f=28mm.
Focused at 2m (2000mm) 1/o = 1/2000. 1/i = 1/28 -1/2000. i = 28,397...
So the distance between the lens and image (focal plane) has to be increased by ca 0,4mm.

To calculate the close-up lens we need to:
1) Find a focal length that will be focused at 2m, while image to lens distance is 28 mm.
2) Convert that focal length into dioptres: "dioptre is a measurement of optical power which is equal to the reciprocal of the focal length measured in metres," D=1/f(m).
3) Convert the nominal(28mm) lens into dioptres, and find the difference between the two lenses (in dioptres)
4) That's the measure of the close-up lens we need.

[jmanivelle]

Hi, just bought some spare uv filters for my horizon 202 hoping to test a diopter glued over the round uv filter .
I could use an eyepiece correction glass, basically a + 0.5 diopter ( 17 mm square or of a diameter of 13mm up to 17mm).
Just had a quick look at the round eyepiece of my R4A, it might do the job but it's from the 19mm Nikon size and a bit large.
Anyone knows of a smaller diameter eyepiece glass? Canon? Minolta? Olympus?
Cheers
JM

[europanorama]

1. forget the official DOF-table. its not true.
2. i have multiple instructions/solutions in my panorama-forum-login needed.
http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/log...ms%25252Fstart

3. add eighter a dymo-tape or contact-lens to en empty filter.

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by europanorama

1. forget the official DOF-table. its not true.

Or rather "it was calculated on the assumption that prints would be really small", like the DOF scales on older Russian or Zeiss lenses.

[jmanivelle]

Originally Posted by europanorama

3. add eighter a dymo-tape or contact-lens to en empty filter.

Hi europanorama,
I believe you wrote as well in the following link http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mai...rt&msg=1146.12
about adding contact lenses.
Have you done it yourself?
I've been seeking infos about fitting 0.2 contact lenses but all the mentioned links are dead.
Cheers
JM

[europanorama]

I have printed instructions from the dead links. some in digital form somewhere deeply on one of my hdds or cds.
We should ask the panorama-community in yahoo-tech-groups.
My scanner is not ready. Maybe i can make copies and send to you.
pls PM your adress. maybe at the end you could offer filters for us.

Rainer K.Lampinen(Technopan-the luxery Horizon with 8 exp. times) once made closeup-lenses for the old horizont. they were not cheap. I could use it together with a matching camara. he said its delicate to position it.
Dymotape-the quick solution
I was using black dymotape 6.3mm wide, 0.2mm thick most ideal to have sharpness at infinity at about 5.6/8 but being closer than without.
glueing this tape to the film-rails is not easy, above all at the side where the film must go. one must be very careful perforation does not hang there. Results are perfect. We also glued metallic tape(from rainer k.lampinen). my repairman said to do this perfectly camera must be heaten up....My 202 is now perfectly working. Went defective during sitting inactive...Material is living. shutter-opener is now fixed by loctite.
One can change lens-position. if i dont err its 0.25 turning outside-increasing distance to film.
Since i have very little time you must wait until end of february until i can take more actions. we must then publish electronic informations in the panorama-group.
I could not find anyting on jan-willem markerinks site and files. maybe ask him.

I have in mind asking an optician to build a lens. or using contact lenses. 0.2 diopter.
btw: i have actually added 0.5m distance to spinner 360. its easy. this is only for very closeup-situations. Maybe i will try it out for the first time on carnival in 10 days. but i dont have the motor yet 1/4 sec.(14 sec rotation)
good to know now how to calculate diopter. i couldnt find my old calculations anymore.
BTW: If someone can tell me about a save place i will reupload my testimages about unsharp lens on s3pro at f16. comparison with h202.

[ulrich.von.lich]

good to see this old thread again.

i still use my horizon 202 at times and still try to live with the focus distance. in fact i've never found any filter to start the idea of going to see an optician.

does Mr. Rainer K.Lampinen still make close-up lenses? when he said it's delicate to position it, he meant to position the lens into the filter frame?

i believe the camera is still being made and commercialised under the name horizon perfekt or something (lomography). it'd be interesting to get in touch with the factory to see if there's a chance to have such a close-up filter made or to get the focus permanently adjusted.

cheers

[europanorama]

KMZ must still prove that they are reliable. Until now they do not drive consequences from their mistakes. unwillig offering these filters.
a) lens-quality-inferiour to 202-lens. at f16 its NOT SHARP anymore. Test it, check it but with very sharp subjects and the closeup-tips(film-rail-tape)
then take a 30x loupe and scan. best scanner is not needed. the difference is so obvious.

b) closeup-filters.
i have informations on two files-but have only prints-outs. will search my files
b1)"horizonfilter"
long informations from camprice.com¨making your own filters for the horizon panoramic camera
b2) "horizon202"
a certain oliver2 at kiew88 mailing list has deep makting informations e.g. sat, 26, jan. 2002 diopters very good solution... for horizon 202 and sun, 10 feb 2002, diopter....
he is communicating with robert monaghan.
the informations should be on his site. its a big site.
i will send you PM of his email, hopefully its working again.
or i will try myself. i already mentioned the problem getting the files in panoramiccamera-yahoo-list

pls tell me:
a) when scanner is ready should i use scan to pdf?
b) where to upload, i will certainly do to the panoramacamera-list

Jean-marc will get these two copies via friend here in europe and he will get it by the end of the month. I am sure i will find the files beforehand within next days.

[europanorama]

a) go to normal optical shop to get diopter lenses. get resin plastic ones, you can get coated ones.
dont use glass, it will break when drilling holes.
b) mark the optical center with soft marker,
c) cut a square in the filter holder-dimension with dremel disk tool
d) sofly remove(open) the filter holder to quit(seperate) thge filter and the upper piece. so you have only a single piece with 4 pins.
e) drill 4 holes to perfct fit the piece of glass(plastic lens not glass) in place
clean well and put little drops of superglue.

f) test which diopter match best for e.g. f2.8, mark the holders.

DOF at f2.8( be aware overall best lens quality starts at 5.6/8)
+1 diopter sharp at 1m
+0.5 sharp focus at 2m
+0.25 real 4m
dymotape is exactly 0.25mm
there is a selfadhesive material to repair lamps. unfortunately white but has better glue.
I cannot tryout, i have only one 202 at he moment. and s3pro has changed lens posistion adding tape will further go to closeup.
Closeup lenses are better because you can then use whatever depths more easily. stronger and weaker diopters. if middle version is built-in its difficult to get a specific result. e.g 0.25 + 0.25= 0.5 but 0.25 + 0.125 is needed. 0.125 is difficult to get. maybe from zeiss?
Most important is: Which diopters allows sharp infinity? at least at 5.6/8 upwards.in my opinion by using + 0.25.

dymotape-0.25mm its international standard
just checked the 202.
one must prolong the tape over the start of the metallic rail to avoid easy blocking the film when loading. it is still a bit delicate since i didnt yet find a glue for perfect sit of tape-end. its is quite stiff. bend the tape beforehand exactly where the rails begin. keep in mind: at the end, where film-takeup spool is: tape must be cut at 1mm from the end of the rail, if not film will be blocked. at the beginning-left side where film is loading, tape starts about 3-4mm from the rails.
the mentioned lamps-repAir-material is much more flexible. It comes on rolls and has red square protection.but its white. adding a thin black layer would increase distance. at the beginning of my close-up-carreer i constructed multiple layers.
Maybe you can use that white material and add silver repair material.
its about O.05mm resulting in 0.3mm. thats interesting.
maybe infinity is sharp at f11. f8 and f11 are the best apertures. also f16 but 202 only.
These are all instruction i have from the files.
oliver is describing his shooting of animals on the galapagos.

NEW/OLD CAMERA-CASE(the one from old metallic horizont)

on ebay one can get new(old version) of Horizont-camera-cases. Its a genious robust/leather case where one can leave the pistol grip. at 50 usd not chaep but worth every money.

[ulrich.von.lich]

europanorama, thank you very much for the precise information.

i'd really appreciate it if you could upload the pdf files when you have time. i'll pm you later my email address.

in my case, i need to bring down the focus distance to about 2m, and i don't mind at all losing the infinity focus ability, which i'd use f16 to cover as much as possible. (or i'll buy another stock camera for that purpose)

i think i'll try first the dymotape solution. if i have understood correctly, i need to tape the upside and downside rails TWICE (0.25mm + 0.25mm) to fix the focus at about 2m. but i'm afraid i'm not completely sure about when you said cut the tape 1mm from the end of the rail in order to not block the film.

1) is it possible to see a picture of it?
2) in that case, will the focus of the 1mm film (at infinity) be different from the rest of the film (at 2m)?

as to the glue, have you thought about the sugru :

http://sugru.com/about

one last question:

3) how did you change the lens position of your s3pro? by adding a close-up lens?

[jmanivelle]

Thanks a lot for sharing these infos, it is sincerely appreciated !

I'll let you know when I have done any progress myself with the resin diopters.

Best regards,
Jean-Marc.

Originally Posted by europanorama

a) go to normal optical shop to get diopter lenses. get resin plastic ones, you can get coated ones.
dont use glass, it will break when drilling holes.
b) mark the optical center with soft marker,
c) cut a square in the filter holder-dimension with dremel disk tool
d) sofly remove(open) the filter holder to quit(seperate) thge filter and the upper piece. so you have only a single piece with 4 pins.
e) drill 4 holes to perfct fit the piece of glass(plastic lens not glass) in place
clean well and put little drops of superglue.

f) test which diopter match best for e.g. f2.8, mark the holders.

DOF at f2.8( be aware overall best lens quality starts at 5.6/8)
+1 diopter sharp at 1m
+0.5 sharp focus at 2m
+0.25 real 4m
dymotape is exactly 0.25mm
there is a selfadhesive material to repair lamps. unfortunately white but has better glue.
I cannot tryout, i have only one 202 at he moment. and s3pro has changed lens posistion adding tape will further go to closeup.
Closeup lenses are better because you can then use whatever depths more easily. stronger and weaker diopters. if middle version is built-in its difficult to get a specific result. e.g 0.25 + 0.25= 0.5 but 0.25 + 0.125 is needed. 0.125 is difficult to get. maybe from zeiss?
Most important is: Which diopters allows sharp infinity? at least at 5.6/8 upwards.in my opinion by using + 0.25.

dymotape-0.25mm its international standard
just checked the 202.
one must prolong the tape over the start of the metallic rail to avoid easy blocking the film when loading. it is still a bit delicate since i didnt yet find a glue for perfect sit of tape-end. its is quite stiff. bend the tape beforehand exactly where the rails begin. keep in mind: at the end, where film-takeup spool is: tape must be cut at 1mm from the end of the rail, if not film will be blocked. at the beginning-left side where film is loading, tape starts about 3-4mm from the rails.
the mentioned lamps-repAir-material is much more flexible. It comes on rolls and has red square protection.but its white. adding a thin black layer would increase distance. at the beginning of my close-up-carreer i constructed multiple layers.
Maybe you can use that white material and add silver repair material.
its about O.05mm resulting in 0.3mm. thats interesting.
maybe infinity is sharp at f11. f8 and f11 are the best apertures. also f16 but 202 only.
These are all instruction i have from the files.
oliver is describing his shooting of animals on the galapagos.

NEW/OLD CAMERA-CASE(the one from old metallic horizont)

on ebay one can get new(old version) of Horizont-camera-cases. Its a genious robust/leather case where one can leave the pistol grip. at 50 usd not chaep but worth every money.

[europanorama]

Here is following an information from an article i copied from the internet. No name of the author. It is condensed but still precise.
Its about constructing a filter-holder to replace filters. I would rather make one holder for every filter. Info will be uploaded to panoramic camera yahoo-tech-group-files. incl. new images later. all informations about horizon filters/closeup filter are now out no need to send you copies.
------------------------
Making your own Filters for Horizon Panoramic Camera
Michael Przewrocki
resume of an article camprice.com. by someone from HK having daughter Kelly.

I was using my Horizon 202 the other day and wanted deep red filter. But there were only ND, light green and UV.
Modifying would mean taking a knife and take the filter apart. (Old horizont had other filter-technology. Glass was attached by a spring. So easy replacing was possible.)
The new filters have four parts. I name them the Bottom(1), the Top(4), the Metal part(2) and the Filter insert(3).(He mentions images showing these-but i dont have these, only have two showing the finished product. will show them someday.)
The Bottom has four stems which penetrate the Metal Part and trap the filter Insert before ending in the Top where they are peended/melted over to secure the entire assembly.
Before starting, it is wise to gather all the supplies and tools and accessory to make the modification. Here are some suggestions:
1. a sharp bladed knife(Exacto or other, I used my Swiss Army Knife)
2. File (fingernal file will do)
3. a 2mm drill bit or other method of making a clean hole in the new filter material. I used a combination of a heated pin held in a pin vice, and a 2mm tap.
4. four x 5mm screws, depending the thickness of the filter material
5. Cokin filter
6. A Plastics cutting knife. This has a deep "V" shaped blade and is the only method short of actual sawing that I have found works on the hard acrylic of the Cokin filters.
7. Needle of Pin which you can heat and hold for making holes.

Here are the steps I followed to arrive at my finished filter. I cut the Green filter apart by slipping the knife blade gently between the Bottom and Metal part and severing the stems. The filter fell apart. I then pushed the resulting plugs(5) out of the Top and threw them away. I also threw the filter away because I couldnt think of a use for it.
I measured the width and lenght of the Top and Bottom (17mm) and used the Plastic cutting knife to core the Cokin filter. Be sure to bend the filter away from the cut you have made. It will snap smoothly. I didnt the first time and I ended up with a very ragged edge. After the first cut I had a piece of Deep Red filter material 17mm wide and more than 50mm long. I had to make another score to end up with a square of 17mm on a side. I ran the edges of the cut piece a couple of times over the flat side of the file, just to get rid of the sharp ridges. Using the holes in the corners of the Metal Part as a template, I made small pricks with a very hot needle in the center of each hole. I used the 2mm tap to enlarge these pricks but 1.5/2mm drill would do just as well. Avoid pressing too hard on the drill, or you may shatter the filter material and have to cut another piece to begin again.

I trimmed the excess "stem" material from the Bottom which my knife and used the Metal part and heated needle again as a pattern to make starter holes for the screws at each coner. A word of caution here. The black plastic of the Top and Bottom are very soft. Too much heat on the pin and you will send it right through and possibly make a hole that is too big, thereby messing up any chance of the screw holding. Its better to make your first attempt too small than to end up with a hole too big. This is the extent of the hard work. The assembly was very fast and the resulting filter looked so good that I wner right out and bought and Orange Cokin Filter to cut up to replace the ND filer which I never use.

Because the only screws I could find were chrome, I darkened the heads with a Black Magic Marker, just for cosmetic purposes.
I thought about darkening the threads too, but I dont think there is any chance of flare coming in that direction.
My friend Tony Lo reported this morning that he found a 0.5+ diopter which he thinks can be adapted to allow closer focussing than the Horizon 202 is setup for.
.........
(Click on the picture to see an enlarged view of my daughter Kelly on the deck of the USS Independence during the ships visit to HK)
(I dont have this picture-the Coauthor)
Febr 4, 2013-Michael Przewrocki-MPA
www.3dreal.ch/www.stereopan.org)