Dating Contax IIa/IIIa bodies???

[FrankS]

Your camera may have been converted to PC sync. No problem.

[flashover]

just wondered if there was agrey area in the models. From what I read there is internal differances between the mech sync and PC sync cameras. Oh the PC does work on my cameras. Oh well it takes nice pictures either way.

[HuubL]

Originally Posted by varjag

Max, sounds like 1936.

So my new III #E39812 would be from 1939??

[furcafe]

According to the Foto Saga book cited by Stephen Gandy:

http://www.cameraquest.com/zconrf2.htm

the E series dates to approximately 1937.

Originally Posted by HuubL

So my new III #E39812 would be from 1939??

[HuubL]

Originally Posted by furcafe

According to the Foto Saga book cited by Stephen Gandy:

http://www.cameraquest.com/zconrf2.htm

the E series dates to approximately 1937.

Wow... Thanks for checking. 70 years old! And still looking like a young lady! I'll try to post her portrait shortly.

[HuubL]

Originally Posted by HuubL

Wow... Thanks for checking. 70 years old! And still looking like a young lady! I'll try to post her portrait shortly.

Check out the 'Show off your Contax' thread...

[raid]

Originally Posted by dexdog

Frank S, good idea. Data is taken from "On the Trail of the Contax, Volume II" by Hans-Jurgen Kuc. For some reason, the table gets knocked out of format when posted, although it was fine when I typed it up in the message interface. I'll see if I can make it a sticky, too


Contax IIIa, mechanical sync

Letter, Serial Number, Production dates
A, 53,001-63,000, 4/1953 to 10/1953

Thanks, Mark.
My IIIa dates back to 1953.
IIIa with CZJ 135mm/4 Sonnar with Leitz Polarizer-Hood and KMZ Turret Finder.

[Letien]

Originally Posted by harry01562

I've neglected to mention that I have a copy of both the post-war Thiele listing and the book by John Keesing, as well. The dating is very approximate, as the SN's were released in large batches. I would guess some batches were used over a period of several years. Still, it's better than no information.

I also found one lens that didn't fit the listings, and some info in Keesing. No additional answers on a request for information here several weeks ago. Evidently not a common item.

Will be glad to provide what I can on anything from the 1950's, except the Jena, which are in an additional book that I don't own. I cover the Carl Zeiss or Zeiss Opton's only.

Harry

Hi Harry,
I just got my first contax from a fellow RFFer. Would you please let me know the date of this lens: Sonnar 1:2 f=50mm T Carl Zeiss Jenna Nr. 3501328, and it come with a IIIA # L76699.
What confused me that this lens is coated T lens in chrome while people often say only (East German) pre-war lens are chrome and only post war lens are coated.
So I would be appreciate if some one can tell me the relative age of this lens.

[furcafe]

Harry specifically noted that he can't help w/the Jena lenses as he doesn't have that book. FYI, Carl Zeiss Jena lenses were "T" coated starting in the late 1930s & during WWII, & were also coated after WWII, when Jena became part of "E. Germany" & were also produced in "W. Germany" in Oberkochen under 1st the "Zeiss-Opton" & later the "Carl Zeiss" labels after the Zeiss empire split up.

As far as mounts, to simplify things, before WWII, the CZJ lenses were all heavy chrome on brass (though early lenses for the original Contax I also had black enamel finish in addition to the chrome). During the war, as brass & chrome supplies were diverted to military use, Zeiss put many lenses into mixed alloy & brass or all-alloy mounts. After WWII, the "E. German" CZJ lenses tended to be put into lightweight aluminum alloy mounts, not that different from the Ukrainian Jupiters, though some in the immediate post-war period can be in a mix of brass & alloy like some wartime lenses. The post-WWII Zeiss-Opton & Carl Zeiss, i.e., W. German Zeiss lenses, were all in chrome & brass mounts (different & not as heavy as the pre-WWII Jena lenses).

Your Sonnar is definitely post-WWII, but for a more definitive answer, you should post your serial #s to the Zeiss Ikon Collectors Group (ZICG):

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZICG/

It is my understanding that because of differences in trademark enforcement & incentives to get around price maintenance rules (in the U.S., camera bodies often couldn't be sold @ a discount unless bundled w/a 3rd party lens, which would include an E. German lens @ the time), the E. German Sonnars were more commonly sold/found in the U.S. than in Europe.

Originally Posted by Letien

Hi Harry,
I just got my first contax from a fellow RFFer. Would you please let me know the date of this lens: Sonnar 1:2 f=50mm T Carl Zeiss Jenna Nr. 3501328, and it come with a IIIA # L76699.
What confused me that this lens is coated T lens in chrome while people often say only (East German) pre-war lens are chrome and only post war lens are coated.
So I would be appreciate if some one can tell me the relative age of this lens.

[dexdog]

Originally Posted by Letien

Hi Harry,
I just got my first contax from a fellow RFFer. Would you please let me know the date of this lens: Sonnar 1:2 f=50mm T Carl Zeiss Jenna Nr. 3501328, and it come with a IIIA # L76699.
What confused me that this lens is coated T lens in chrome while people often say only (East German) pre-war lens are chrome and only post war lens are coated.
So I would be appreciate if some one can tell me the relative age of this lens.

According to Hartmut Thiele's book, you Sonnar is part of a batch completed/delivered January 25, 1951

[harry01562]

Originally Posted by Letien

Hi Harry,
I just got my first contax from a fellow RFFer. it come with a IIIA # L76699.

As mentioned, I don't have the data on the Jena lenses. Your body was part of a group of 10,000 released to production between 7/1956 and 7/1961. Those numbers ran from 75,001 to 85,000, so your body was among the early ones in the group. Your Contax is one of the colored dial later model. A very nice camera to use.

Harry

[Letien]

Thank you all for the valuable info. Now I am looking for a place to CLA. There is a camera shop near my home that can handle classic cameras but I have to wait until Monday to know if the tech still want to work on Contax IIIA.
Thanks

[dexdog]

Originally Posted by Letien

Thank you all for the valuable info. Now I am looking for a place to CLA. There is a camera shop near my home that can handle classic cameras but I have to wait until Monday to know if the tech still want to work on Contax IIIA.
Thanks

Don't know where you are, but if the USA, Eddy Smolov in NYC works on Contax cameras. I think that Raid Amin had a camera CLA'd there, and was quite happy with the service.

[Tim San Francisco]

Advice requested, opinions welcome:



I ran into this Contax RF at an estate sale auction while overseas. Sorry for the lousy image, I'm stuck with only a cell phone camera. Can anyone advise what I am looking at (I, II, II or other model), and the reasonable market value. The body is good - excellent shape, with some minor bright marks and scratches, but no dings or dents. The lens is a Sonnar 1.5 50mm and surfaces looks nice, except for dots inside, which I unfortunately suspect is fungus.

I confess ignorance here, as I'm shooting a Leica M and Hexar AF, and have no experience with Contax or Zeiss cameras. The only number I can find in stamped on the accessory shoe "30056" and inside the lens rim "Nr 716217" Am I correct in assuming the lens is fixed to the body?

Compared to my used M, the lens movement is loose and rough, as it makes sound when moving.

Reasonable price range for this? Or would you simply take a pass, given the apparent fungus inside the glass?

Thanks, Tim SF

[xayraa33]

Originally Posted by Tim San Francisco

Advice requested, opinions welcome:



I ran into this Contax RF at an estate sale auction while overseas. Sorry for the lousy image, I'm stuck with only a cell phone camera. Can anyone advise what I am looking at (I, II, II or other model), and the reasonable market value. The body is good - excellent shape, with some minor bright marks and scratches, but no dings or dents. The lens is a Sonnar 1.5 50mm and surfaces looks nice, except for dots inside, which I unfortunately suspect is fungus.

I confess ignorance here, as I'm shooting a Leica M and Hexar AF, and have no experience with Contax or Zeiss cameras. The only number I can find in stamped on the accessory shoe "30056" and inside the lens rim "Nr 716217" Am I correct in assuming the lens is fixed to the body?

Compared to my used M, the lens movement is loose and rough, as it makes sound when moving.

Reasonable price range for this? Or would you simply take a pass, given the apparent fungus inside the glass?

Thanks, Tim SF

it is a Contax IIa from the photo.
since you did not post a rear and top view photo, the body serial # will be used to ID it further.

the serial # place it as a colour dial from 1956/57, going by dexdog's list.
these had the normal PC socket for flash sync.

[dexdog]

The lens is not fixed, but a removable bayonet mount. Lens is removed from the helical by pressing down the small lever on the lens mount, and turning the lens clockwise. The Zeiss-Opton lens is considered by many Contax fans as the best of the three variaties of the post-WW2 50mm lenses. The lens movement should not be rough. The sound that you hear is probably the focus wheel (located just above rangerfinder window) spinning as the lens is rotated; a little squeaking may occur too, depending on how dried out the grease on the helical is. If otherwise in good shape, value as judged from eBay sales is in the range of $250-400. Fungus would of course reduce the value.

[Tim San Francisco]

Dex and XA:

Thanks for your advice; very helpful. I got a few more pictures of the top and back (below), but no S/N to be found. Dex, I did get the lens off, with your instructions, and note the inner glass is clean, and blades look good too. Shutter has a slight wrinkle, but otherwise okay.

If not for the fungus in the lens, I'd jump on this. But with unknown repair costs to clean the fungus, I may pass on this, unless it's a bargain. Any idea of the cost to remove the fungus? Also, with an adapter, would this fit onto my Leica M3? (Glass looks very nice, except for the spots inside).

Tim



http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3354/...02f34c3dfb.jpg

[dexdog]

I could not make out the serial number of the camera in your picture, but the number 30056 as noted in your post should be proceeded by a letter. Can't tell what the letter in your picture is, but looks kinda like an "I" which doe not track with info from Kuc's book concerning serial numbers. According to Kuc's book, the serial number 30056 is in the range of "Q" series IIa cameras produced in 1956-1957. Perhaps the camera that you have is a mis-engraving. Also, the phillips-head screws on the accessory shoe are probably replacements, the original scews had regular slotted heads.

Cleaning the fungus would require a CLA, normally about $100 in most places. Adapters for Contax RF to leica M mount are available from a couple of eBay sellers for about $250-$300. eBay seller Amedeo.m seems to be a good seller to deal with based on the experience of several RFF members. If you already have M-mount cameras, an adapter makes sense- if not, one can usually pick up a functional post-WW2 Contax camera body for less money.

[Tim San Francisco]

Dex:

Thanks again. The letter is T 30056, and you're correct; those are phillips screws holding the acc. shoe.

This caught my eye initially because I read in one of the threads that some M mount afficiandos considered the Sonnar 50mm 1.5 as an outstanding fast 50 for the M body (maybe it was Tom A.).

So if I can get this lens cleaned and pick up an affordable adapter, this may be an attractive alternative to a 50mm summilux for me. On the other hand, if I get a good price, perhaps I get the lens cleaned and shoot with the Contax body.

The camera feels solid in the hand, and the lens sparkles.

Tim

[ZeissFan]

The use of phillips head screws indicates that someone has worked on the camera in the past. It might have no bearing on the work performed, other than the original screws were lost or damaged or a combination.

The original screws are somewhat soft and the screw heads can be damaged easily, so extra care is always needed when tightening or loosening them.

The focusing mechanism of the postwar cameras is different than the prewar cameras and often feels a bit rougher, even after the camera has been serviced.

There is a small trick to retighening the screws that should be followed when reattaching the helical assembly to the body. That can go a long way toward making the focusing movement feel smoother.

Like all cameras from the 1950s, it can use an overhaul. And the lens definitely needs work.

It would be very difficult to say whether then lens can be saved without a hands-on inspection. The Contax IIa in its own right is a fabulous camera. I like the smaller body and would choose it over a prewar camera.

Of course, you have knob wind and knob rewind and all of the "drawbacks" that are part of cameras from that era. That's a small part of the charm, perhaps.

[farlymac]

Thanks for the information dexdog, I now know that my IIa is one year older than me.

PFM

[someonenameddavid]

My Contax IIIA V23048 is placed in the Black Dial mechanical flash attachment but the PC attachment is clearly color dial and the 25 and 50 shutter speeds are yellow. A factory conversion perhaps.

David