Mamiya 645 Super, Pro and Pro TL - Pentax 645N

[wakarimasen]

Hello folks

I'm considering one of these cameras but can't find a real comparison of them in terms of reliability, capability and (that intangible) 'image quality.'

Anyone care to share some knowledge and experience of these models?

Best regards,
RoyM

[Spanik]

From what I know about the Mamiya's is that for the Super, Pro and ProTL the reliability goes up in the same order. However I have a ProTL where the mirror lockup broke down last year. Now that body came from a professional studio photographer so it can be that it was used a lot. I find them well build and sensible layed out.

The Mamiya's are certainly capable as they are part of a whole system. So whatever you want you can probably achieve it. Image quality is excellent, but more dependend on the lenses than the body. Every 645 lens will go on those bodies and there is a large range to choose from: 24mm to 500mm.

No idea of the Pentax, never used it.

[sevo]

Avoid the Super - it has a flawed design which puts the (multilayer) main PCB under mechanical strain, so that it is prone to irreparable (now that all spare PCBs are gone) electronics failures.

The Pro and Pro TL avoided that problem and are far more reliable - the TL essentially is a updated Pro, and most notably adds TTL flash. That by itself would not be a reason to buy one - even back then it had little use outside the wedding niche, as the emergence of digital and its different requirements killed off TTL control for studio flashes before it ever got established. The main reason to get a TL would be that these are up to 15 years younger than the plain Pro...

[ruby.monkey]

Pentax 645N and later has great handling, a superb control system, and excellent lenses, and offers the useful feature of data imprinting on the negative. Autofocus is a feature, as is the ability to use lenses from the 67. Bits and bobs seem to be quite expensive, at least on this side of the Pond.

Mamiya 645 Super and later offer greater flexibility (interchangeable finders, hot-swappable film backs, manual or power winders), good handling, and excellent lenses. Lenses are manual-focus-only. Lenses and accessories seem to be much cheaper then the Pentax's.

(Pity you're not in London or else I could have offered you the chance to compare a 645N against a Pro TL.)

Whichever system you choose, you'll have a top-notch camera.

[wakarimasen]

So the Pro TL is to the Pro what the M6 ttl is to the M6?

What about servicing and parts - in the UK?

Thanks for the responses so far.

Best regards
RoyM

[kuzano]

I can vouch for the post about bad electronics in the Super. Mine failed and I know of others. The Pro versions stood me well. Had four Pro bodies, and the accessories, like the power wind grip, and the thumb wiind grips all worked well.

Lithium batteries were to be avoided in Mamiya MF camera's for a number of the batteries. There used to be a very active Mamiya forum on the MAC group site, but that was quite a while ago. When that forum existed, there was a table that listed preferred batteries for a number of the bodies, and lithium was a no no for a number of bodies in the late M645, Super, and possibly early PRO era.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by kuzano

Lithium batteries were to be avoided in Mamiya MF camera's for a number of the batteries. (...) lithium was a no no for a number of bodies in the late M645, Super, and possibly early PRO era.

That might be a legend, or a lame excuse dealers used to blame the customers for the electronics failures on the Super.

The Pro's introduction preceded the lithium 6V cells, so these aren't in the manual (nor in those of any earlier M645 generation). But that is about all that is to be said about them. It is rather hard to imagine why the cameras might fail on a lithium PX28, as its voltage and short-circuit current sits right in between the permitted alkaline and silver oxide PX28 - electronics usually don't fail over conditions less extreme than permitted.

My plain old M645es still continue to thrive on lithium batteries, and they are officially permitted by the Pro TL manual - my Super had already died before lithiums hit the market...

[wakarimasen]

Just sold my Fuji GS645S, so the Mamiya 645 Pro is now a real prospect.

[Todd.Hanz]

I've got a 645E, a later model from about 2000 I think. I've shot a lot of 120 over the years and the camera seems to hold up well, though a bit plasticky like an M7II but built well. I bought it for one lens in particular, the 80/1.9 which most other medium format manufacturers don't have...a fast lens. I also have a 45mm that is pretty nice. Overall it's a good camera with great lenses, I think most lenses will fit most cameras so get a decent body and splurge on the lenses. Heres a couple sample images...

80/1.9




45/2.8




Good Luck

Todd

[DominikDUK]

Bronica ETRS-I with AE prism would be another option to consider, completely modular design, sharp lenses and available cheaply. And Syncs at all speed.

Dominik

[wakarimasen]

I've thought of the Bronica but had the impression that it was somehow less reliable. Is that not correct?

[DominikDUK]

Never had any reliability problems. The Bronica was also often used by wedding photographers that should be proof enought for its reliability.

The drawback of the Bronica is slower lenses and lower max shutter speed 1/500th. The lenses are superb though

Dominik

[canetsbe]

avoid the super. I love the pro. not much more to say that hasn't been said...

[Lund]

I picked up a mamiya pro system, two backs, metered prism, 45/2.8, 80/1.9 and 150/2.8 quite cheap a few months back. And I love it. Intuitive to use, works flawlessly, exposes great and looks kind of cool. For what they go for I say it one of the most bang for buck you can find. Easy to find more parts for the system as well.

[Spanik]

Seeing those pics above makes me lust for a 80/1.9. No idea what I'd do with it but you know...

[maxwell1295]

At one point I have a m645 1000s, a 645 Pro TL, and 645e. Only the 645e remains. The Pro TL is a really nice kit. If I shot medium format more often or felt the need to switch film mid-roll, I'd would've kept it instead of the 645e. As far as IQ is concerned, I don't think there's a discernible difference among the Mamiyas I mentioned. I would avoid the Super at all costs. I never owned one, but by all accounts it's a lemon...

[wakarimasen]

Now looking at Bronica too.....

[wakarimasen]

Well, it's a departure from the original plan, but I just bought this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1209170728...84.m1438.l2649
At the price it's almost in the 'too good to be true category.' Fingers crossed!

[Todd.Hanz]

Pretty cool, good luck with it.

Todd

[wakarimasen]

First image with my ETRSi

[kuzano]

I used a lot of Mamiya 645 variants... only had the one bad Super.

Then I switched to the Bronica ETRSi. Never looked back. A bit more compact than the Mamiya Pro, and very reliable. Nice sharp lenses, and the real strong positive for me was the "shutter in lens" for flash sync purposes.