M6 or M6 TTL?

[F4RR]

Hi,

As I'm new to this forum I hope this isn't considered as SPAM.

I've recently turned 21 years of age and I'm looking to treat myself to an everyday camera that I can throw on my side and take with me everywhere. I'm looking to purchase a Leica. After a lot thinking I feel that the M6 would be a perfect first for myself. I don't shoot digital I'm strictly Film only.

I've visited Red Dot Camera's in London as well as RG lewis and Richard Caplin's in order to try out Leica M's and help me to decide the perfect model for myself and I warmed to the M6 the most. Although those M2's are extremely nice.

I'm struggling to decide whether I'm going to purchase an M6 Classic or an M6 TTL. I understand the latter has TTL which on the odd occasion i use a flash, would come in handy.

What I'm asking is,

- Is there a difference in build quality M6 'Classic' Vs. M6 TTL?
- Does anyone have any advice or personal experience of both?


I would be looking to purchase a Zeiss 50mm F1.5 ZM Sonnar as my standard lens, or possibly a Voigtlander 35mm ASPH.


I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinions/advice on which M to purchase and or what lens i should consider buying.

Thank you.

[Moriturii]

"- Is there a difference in build quality M6 'Classic' Vs. M6 TTL?"

No, more likely the opposite. More electronics = more prone to breaking.

Only reason to use a TTL is if you use flash a lot, otherwise it's a waste of money.

[braver]

Manual flash is easy peasy, you don't need TTL for that (it's neat though). Go TTL if you shoot with flash all the time, or if you want a .58 viewfinder. I kinda like the shutter speed dial a bit better, but that's really not an issue, and otherwise there is no advantage to the TTL.

[bobbyrab]

The electronics in either camera are very unlikely to go wrong, and if they did you lose the meter which you don't have in earlier cameras anyway. Basic difference between the two, M6 is older, has smaller shutter dial that goes against the metering arrows in the viewfinder, mainly comes as the .72 finder apart from a few late .85's.
M6ttl is very very slightly taller, slightly more sensitive meter, larger shutter dial that goes in the same direction as the arrows, more intuitive if your new to M's, and with a choice of .58,.72, and.85 viewfinders, and about 20% more expensive in the UK. Personally I chose the ttl with .58 viewfinder shooting 21,25,35, and 50 lenses, but you should try the different viewfinders out and see which you prefer.

[Jockos]

On the lens choice: do you really want to have a lens with focus shift issues as your first/only lens?

[d_c]

I prefer the feel of the M6 to the M6 TTL but that's not to say that you would feel the same.

As others have said above though, any TTL functionality would be wasted unless you were really using lots of flash, and frankly you would probably be better off doing that with something like a Nikon or Canon SLR rather than an M6 anyway. So why not get the M6 Classic and save yourself £200 which you can put into the budget for your lens and maybe get yourself a 50mm Summicron as your first lens.

[whitecat]

I would take the 6.

[Thardy]

I have a TTL, but hardly use it. Too many other cameras.

[Mudman]

I have an m3 and a m6ttl .85. Love both. I like the big dial and correct direction for the ttl with the meter. The backwards meter and lack of a center spot (just two arrows, no circle) would be a pain with the m6 for me. Your mileage may vary. Try both and see which you like more.

[Damaso]

I have two TTLs and while I don't use the metering I do like the larger shutter speed dial. They are very close and either is good. I'm in London for hte next three weeks if you'd like to see one up close and maybe run a roll of film through one...

[woodphoto]

I say find one of the two in the best condition for the least amout. They are virtually identical, and unless you are shooting both versions at the same time, it shouldn't matter.

The lens choice however, I would go with the Zeiss 50mm f/2 C Planar ZM. Very sharp, less expensive and just as good. Unless the dreamy C is what your after?

Also why the 50mm as an everyday? I think there are more affordable options with a 35mm. But thats just me, my everyday is a Elmarit 28 v3. on my ttl .58

good luck

[John Lawrence]

Welcome.

Both are great cameras and you can't really go wrong with either. However, I prefer the shutter speed dial, more sensitive meter and display in the TTL. The flash facility I look on as an added bonus.

Ultimately though I would advise you to run a roll of film through both the M6 and M6ttl and decide which you prefer. Damaso has made a very kind offer, and I'd urge you to take him up on it - there aren't many professional photographers of his calibre, reputation and Leica experience who would be so generous with their time.

Have fun, and let us know how you get on.

John

[Benjamin Marks]

I think what you are seeing with the answers above is that folks can get along with either camera and their preferences are idiosyncratic. The TTL is sliiiightly newer, but on the time scale of these cameras' useful lives (multiple decades), the difference is not enough to matter. You should know that the 'TTL' feature only works with Leica's proprietary flash, so it is a null-value in most folks decisions between these cameras. If TTL flash is your thing: my unsolicited advice would be to go for a Nikon or a Canon SLR and save yourself some money.

My idiosyncratic pick: I have both and I like the M6 marginally better. I bought an M6 TTL off a photojournalist about 7 years ago because I liked the idea of having a 0.85 body to use with a Noctilux. And the larger magnification viewfinder is a bit easier to focus with that lens and the 75/1.4, both of which require a certain amount of care when focusing.

As to lenses, let me echo the sentiment about the 50/2 from Zeiss mentioned above. The Zeiss 50/1.5 Sonnar is a wonderful lens, but it would not be my choice for first rangefinder lens. This lens design has a certain amount of focus shift inherent in it. Some of these lenses are optimized to focus accurately at f:1.5 and others at f:2.8. You have to know which one you have (or test to find out). Focus is as indicated by the rangefinder at that "optimized" aperture then shifts slightly behind the the point of indicated focus (by a few millimeters) as you stop down the lens until you hit f:8 or so by which time the depth of focus due to the aperture covers the focus shift. If lens testing doesn't put you off, you can figure out your way around this fairly easily, but the Zeiss 50/2 will be on-the-money-honey at all apertures and is an easier lens to get to know.

[I just re-read your original post and see that you are also considering the 35/1.4 from Cosina. I own one of these too and like it, but this lens also exhibits focus shift as you stop down from maximum aperture. If that doesn't scare you off, fine. Lenses for which focus shift is not a practical issue include:

35/1.7 Cosina/Voightlander
35/2.5 Cosina/Voightlander
28/1.9 Cosina/Voightlander
50/2.5 Cosina/Voightlander (you will also need a LTM-to-M adapter for the C/V lenses)
50/2 Summicron (any vintage)
35/2 Summicron (any vintage)

Of the above, I think the 35/1.7 is the best cost-to-value ratio.]

[helenhill]

I have had Both... Loved them Both
M6 gets my Vote
Just felt Slightly more Right in my Hands ...

[OurManInTangier]

I've had both. Both are great cameras and it really should just come down to price and whether you prefer the fractional differences such as size ( which is a minimal difference) and shutter dial etc.

John has it spot on, especially about meeting up with Damaso... make the most of an offer like that, I may PM him myself to see if he has any time for a chat.

[klapka]

Get the simple M6 and save a few $ for the lens. No big difference with this two models.

[maddoc]

My two cents ... lens should have priority and camera comes second. So I would go for an M6 (technically OK and with the possibility of return and / or a dealer warranty) and the difference to the M6TTL is better spent for a slightly better lens.

I had all of them and the difference in direction of the shutter dial / slightly taller body etc is not at all important for a first Leica but you have to slowly grow into using it until you can handle it perfectly to concentrate on the photo and not on technical things.

[john_s]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Marks

..... You should know that the 'TTL' feature only works with Leica's proprietary flash, so it is a null-value in most folks decisions between these cameras............

Just a minor point about flashes: there are some other brands such as Metz which work TTL with the appropriate SCA adapter. These might make sense for someone with a second camera system, because all you need is the appropriate SCA adapter for the other camera. Also you could choose one that swiveled to facilitate bounce flash.

[raytoei@gmail.com]

+ Bigger dial, more logical placed like the M7 to M9 (opposite direction to m3 - m4)
+ TTL Flash makes using the CF 20 really easy
+ Often priced the same as a normal M6
+ Newer, chances of getting one less used is higher than the M6
- Heavier and slightly taller.
- Flash won't work without batteries unlike the M6
- Taller means Goggled Lens won't work like that of the DR Cron
- Taller means Visoflex II won't work

[Vincent.G]

The better value for money is the M6 classic. I will only consider M6 TTL if I am looking for a 0.58 or 0.85 finder specifically.

[mathiasprinz]

I think it´s all about the viewfinder magnification you want. For 50mm i like the 0.85 of my TTL better than the 0.72 of my m2, for 35mm the m2 wins, but the m6 is fine, too. The 0.85 is my favorite magnification, but it has no framelines for 28mm, if you want to use a 28mm lens, don´t get a 0.85. I don´t care for the 0.58 mag at all, as it adds no framelines for 24/25mm or 21mm lenses, so it does nothing the 0.72 doesn´t do, it´s just smaller and therefore harder to focus. Then again, for people who scalefocus their 28mm all the time, it could be great.

Also I find the bigger dial of the TTL easier to control, but thats just me i guess. You can get used to either the big or the small dial.

If you want to have a 0.72 viewfinder anyway, get an m6, it´s not much different anyway and you´ll probably get it cheaper. I once heard that m6´s with serialnumbers over 2 million are better mechanically, but i didn´t confirm it.

[philipus]

Welcome Benjamin.

I chose an M6TTL because of the shutterspeed dial being bigger and turning the same way as the arrows. I had previously an M3 and much preferred the (to me) more natural way of turning the dial (and the aperture ring on M lenses; on LTM lenses it's usually the other way around).

I picked a camera with 0,72x viewfinder. Initially I thought this would be inadequate for my style - I use mainly 50mm - but I've found that the extra space around the frame is useful for anticipating the moment. On an 0,85x it would have been too close to the 0,91x of the M3.

I don't think there's a build quality difference between the M6 and the TTL version. However, the TTLs are younger which may be good for the (little) electronics they have inside.

Good luck with your choice.

[Araakii]

Just take the one that's in better condition or a better deal. An average user will not notice any real difference besides flash work.

[F4RR]

Originally Posted by Damaso

I have two TTLs and while I don't use the metering I do like the larger shutter speed dial. They are very close and either is good. I'm in London for hte next three weeks if you'd like to see one up close and maybe run a roll of film through one...

Firstly I'd like to thank you for that extremely kind offer/Experience. Unfortunately I don't live in or around London; I actually live closer to Manchester, and I was only there to test out the Leica's I'd seen and to get some Professional advice. So thank you.

(I've actually added your blog to my favourites as i find it extremely Interesting/Inspiring)

I've taken everyones points into consideration, they were greatly appreciated.

I'm planning on splashing the cash at the end of this month so i will post my purchases and post the results.

Thank you!

[furcafe]

Condition, etc. being equal, I vote for the TTL, but mainly for the larger & more ergonomic shutter speed dial (if you're going to be actually using the meter) & the more sensitive meter, not the additional flash capability.