Delta 3200 @ 3200
Old 05-06-2012   #1
waileong
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Delta 3200 @ 3200

It's grainy, even in 120 size, no matter how hard I try to make it less grainy.

Two examples follow. Both developed with Xtol 1+1 at 18 min/23C equivalent.

Any ideas to make it less grainy will be appreciated
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Old 05-06-2012   #2
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waileong: shooting tri-x and pushing to 1600 or 3200 will make it less grainy than delta 3200. But you get increased contrast.
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Old 05-06-2012   #3
jbielikowski
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use DD-X or something similar (cheaper Ultrafin Plus).
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Old 05-06-2012   #4
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Maybe you could try the Ilford equiv of Microdol X?
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Old 05-06-2012   #5
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Old 05-06-2012   #6
DominikDUK
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Your examples don't look all that grainy to me. 3200 in the Filmworld means grain and higher temperatures usually means even more grain. Try to develop the film at a lower temperature say 20C or even 19C instead of 23C. Use X-Tol @ stock dilution 1+1 gives slightly sharper results but more grain.
The development time seems a little long to me as X-tol Stock only requires 7.5mins @ 20C.

Good luck
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Old 05-06-2012   #7
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Exposure, development, film storage, and scanning are some of the many steps where grain could be exacerbated.

This shot was done on already-expired Delta 3200, developed w/Ilfotec DD-X (1+4, if I recall correctly), scanned on an Epson 4490 w/Silverfast in HDR mode (32-bit greyscale)


Rolleiflex Automat IV + 75mm f/3.5 Xenar / Ilford Delta 3200
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Old 05-06-2012   #8
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I would try it in Microphen or Spur SLD, EI 3200 is also pushed speed (D3200 is more like ISO 800-1000 AFAIK).

I use spur SLD 1 + 9 for 9,5 minutes with great results with Neopan 1600 EI 1600
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Old 05-06-2012   #9
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In my experience if you want copious shadow detail, it is 1000 ISO at the very most. And it is inherently grainy even in 120, although it is not obvious in your examples. I like that graininess, actually.
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100%
Old 05-07-2012   #10
waileong
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100%

Maybe i should post a 100% crop?

Trust me, it's grainy, and it's not beautiful grain like HP5+ or 3X.


I used Xtol 1+1, not Xtol straight. Maybe I'll try it straight next time.

Xtol 1+1 at 13m is barely sufficient. I get just medium contrast negs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DominikDUK View Post
Your examples don't look all that grainy to me. 3200 in the Filmworld means grain and higher temperatures usually means even more grain. Try to develop the film at a lower temperature say 20C or even 19C instead of 23C. Use X-Tol @ stock dilution 1+1 gives slightly sharper results but more grain.
The development time seems a little long to me as X-tol Stock only requires 7.5mins @ 20C.

Good luck
Dominik
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Old 05-07-2012   #11
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The film itself is the source of the grain. A developer which desolves some of it - reducing sharpness - is about only way you change this.

You can make the situation worse by botching your exposure but at some point the film itself is going to be the limiting factor.
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Old 05-07-2012   #12
Johann Espiritu
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In my experience, Delta 3200 grain looks a lot grainier when scanned than when you do a print. The scanning process seems to not capture how smooth a print on Ilford fiber paper can look with this film.
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Old 05-07-2012   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johann Espiritu View Post
In my experience, Delta 3200 grain looks a lot grainier when scanned than when you do a print. The scanning process seems to not capture how smooth a print on Ilford fiber paper can look with this film.
+1 with above.

But the real problem here is your expectations of a high speed film. All high speed dilms are more grainy than slow films. This is common knowledge. And if you you use a speed increasing developer it will make the grain worse. So expect a lot of grain with Microphen or DD-X.

However, Delta 3200 is designed to give normal contrast when developed in Microphen at EI 3200 using ilfords times. The thing is, low light subjects are often low contrast unless there are lights or bright windows in the scene. Well for low contrast subjects you actually want a higher contrast negative so pushing something like Delta 400 to 1600 may well give a better result than using Delta 3200. It really depends on your subject contrast.
But if you want to use EI 3200 with normal film contrast then Microphen is the only dev that will do it IMO. Alternatively you could try Xtol stock at EI 1600 using ilfords recommended times.

All developers except Microphen will be very difficult (long dev times) to obtain 3200 speed with Delta 3200 and that includes DD-X which is not a fine grain developer. But I repeat, at 3200 speed you are going to get grain.

As to using a developer with a lot of solvent in it, well using perceptol stock for 21 mins @ 20deg C will do it. But you'll get an EI of around 800.

So take your pick, speed or fine grain but don't expect both.
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Old 05-07-2012   #14
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+1 for the scanning problem.

Xtol stock works a little better than Xtol 1+1, but I haven't tried to push it to 3200 yet...
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