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Old 05-02-2012   #41
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In some countries it is legal. Almost all scanners have the capacity to vary the dose.

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Old 05-02-2012   #42
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I am considering using only digital equipment because of airport issues overseas. This is always an alternative if X ray is a problem
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Old 05-02-2012   #43
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Someone needs to stop these old wife's tales... Carry on luggage scanners CANNOT be adjusted for power levels by the operators - full stop - they just don't work that way. And for one more time...

Hand carry on x-ray scanner units perform a single scan with most machines today being dual-energy type scanners. Dual energy type scanners pass x-rays first through your bags, etc, then through 3 barriers which in turn filter out high, low and pass-through energy. The detection from these 3 filtrations are then compared in the system's computing modules for interpretation and display. Within these scanners the initial power level of the scan beam is usually within the range of 140 to 160 kilovolt peak. The colour changes you see on the screen are merely differing representations of metal, organic and inorganic objects achieved by performing additive and subtractive transformations on the different engergy levels calculated from the filterings at the 3 barriers of a single pass scan - although operators can reverse an object back into the beam for another scan. The scan energy level is set on these machines and cannot be arbitrarily increased by an operator.
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Old 05-04-2012   #44
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How do you know this?
I've worked in airport security and have checked on machines in about 20 countries.

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Old 05-04-2012   #45
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Someone needs to stop these old wife's tales... Carry on luggage scanners CANNOT be adjusted for power levels by the operators - full stop - they just don't work that way. And for one more time...
I never said the power level can be varied. It can't in the vast majority of units, but many of them have the capacity to use multiple scans which the scanner software compiles into a single image - it's like an HDR photo. This can be selected. In some countries operators are authorised to do this, in some they are not. Where they are not authorised to use this function, the control on the machine is disabled. In Australia they are not authorised to do so, and security uses hand checks if the item looks x-ray dense or suspicious.

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although operators can reverse an object back into the beam for another scan.
An automated version of this is what I was referring to.

I have passed an x-ray meter through scanners in about 20 countries and the dose is remarkably stable within a machine design. It was only in a few developing countries that I noticed any significant change in the dose.

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Old 05-04-2012   #46
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I've worked in airport security and have checked on machines in about 20 countries.
I guess then one should differentiate between difference between the "capacity to vary the dose", which is usually possible for calibration, adjustment, setup etc., and whether this is an easily operator-accessible function, which it usually isn't.

As for the countries where it is "legal" (or rather where airport operators are radiation-exposure-legislation-respecting and lawsuit-fearing), let's check the list the OP was visiting: the US, France, GB and Spain.
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Old 05-04-2012   #47
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Quote:
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I never said the power level can be varied.
I think you made an edit there just now.
Here's your posting as of now, emphasis mine:

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Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
Don't use the lead bags. In some countries the security people will do a second run and give your film an additional radiation dose, in most countries the security people will ask you aside, make you open the lead bag, swab it, and if they don't like the look of you or need to fill their quota of searches, they will go through the rest of your hand luggage very closely (from my experience).
And here's the version you originally posted, that I happened to still have that open in my reply window, emphasis mine:

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Don't use the lead bags. In some countries the security people will do a second run at higher power, in most countries the security people will ask you aside, make you open the lead bag, swab it, and if they don't like the look of you or need to fill their quota of searches, they will go through the rest of your hand luggage very closely (from my experience).
So much for never having said something. We can now argue whether "at higher power" implies "the power level can be varied" or not, but that seems pointless.
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Last edited by rxmd : 05-04-2012 at 03:29. Reason: Added quotations.
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Old 05-04-2012   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
I never said the power level can be varied. It can't in the vast majority of units, but many of them have the capacity to use multiple scans which the scanner software compiles into a single image - it's like an HDR photo. This can be selected. In some countries operators are authorised to do this, in some they are not. Where they are not authorised to use this function, the control on the machine is disabled. In Australia they are not authorised to do so, and security uses hand checks if the item looks x-ray dense or suspicious.



An automated version of this is what I was referring to.

I have passed an x-ray meter through scanners in about 20 countries and the dose is remarkably stable within a machine design. It was only in a few developing countries that I noticed any significant change in the dose.

Marty

Well isn't that what we were saying? that this idea that the operator will "crank up the power" and "fry your film" is a joke ... at one time I did US sales trips at least once a year sometimes two, and I'd just take a little Oly mju and some film in my hand luggage, Manchester, Dublin, Boston drive to Baltimore, Charlotte, Charleston, Charlotte, St. Louis, Chicago, Montreal, Dublin and back to Manchester without noticeable damage ... so you will understand my scepticism of those crying Wolf
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Old 05-04-2012   #49
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When traveling to Africa I just carry my film in my shoulder bag in clear ziplock bags and present it for hand search. No problems and no X-rays.
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Old 05-04-2012   #50
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Quote:
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I think you made an edit there just now.
I changed it almost right away; I certainly didn't mean to be disingenuous.

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So much for never having said something. We can now argue whether "at higher power" implies "the power level can be varied" or not, but that seems pointless.
It is pointless. The effect on the film depends on the dose, including the number of scans.

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Old 05-04-2012   #51
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I have had a mix of 400 and 100 B&W go thru scanners 5 times on a long trip with no ill effects. More recently I stood and watched as they put my bag back and forth thru the scanner as they tried to figure out what these strange looking little things were in the bag, I think that the film got several doses of radiation that day, also without any problems. BTW, they still asked me to show the bag and did the wipe test on the film even after they saw that it was film.
I may be paranoid, but somehow I think the TSA people will not be happy about a lead bag as it smacks of trying to get something thru the scanner without it being identified - seems to me like an invitation to be delayed, questioned, frisked and have a body cavity search - may not be a good idea.
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Old 05-05-2012   #52
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I changed it almost right away; I certainly didn't mean to be disingenuous.
Right away as in "two days later", oh well. Backtracking must be fun.
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Old 05-12-2012   #53
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What about lightmeters?

A couple of years ago when I visited Greece I noticed that my Weston Euromaster didn't work. It was fine before I left, so I figured the security scans had overloaded the selenium cell, or something like that... Likely?
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Old 05-12-2012   #54
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... possibly cosmic radiation on the flight? or them pesky neutrinos ...
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Old 05-12-2012   #55
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Let's all quit arguing, and study this:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/servi...01.shtml#SEC47

As others have reported, and as I have reported in other threads, I've had no damage from airport X-rays. Like the OP, my film was X-Rayed seven times during a European trip. Three of the X-rays were done in Paris, at Charles De Gaulle airport; one when departing Helsinki; twice in Atlanta; and, I think, once in St. Louis. Films included Tri-X; Ilford 400 Delta and 100 Delta; and some Plus-X. No damage. No damage going through X-Ray in Mexico City, either.

For one of the Paris X-rays, I simply laid the film out in one of the trays, separate from everything else. The attendant gave me a questioning look. I explained that my bag was so full of stuff that they would be running it back and forth through the machine, trying to figure out what all that stuff was. By laying it out separately, they knew what they were looking at, and for, so it went through in one quick pass. Others may wish to try this!

On another trip I absent-mindedly let a roll of Delta 3200 go through on both the outgoing and return trips. No problems.

There is a post above, concerning the X-raying of Neopan 1600 (does anyone have any left? I have only 2 rolls). Neopan 1600 is really only about 640 to 800, so it does OK at airports that promise no damage under 1000. This is from my experience, not theoretical. That said, I prefer not to travel with films faster than 400. No sense tempting fate.

As in the Kodak information, my lead bag did trigger an inspection on one trip. Not a problem, just something to be aware of. It would be better to simply request hand inspection in USA airports. I've never been refused. I did not, by the way, use a lead bag for the European trip. No sense in carrying the extra weight if it's not going to do that much good. But-again, as per Kodak-damage can happen. See their examples; and if possible, as kodak says, try to avoid more than 5 X-rays. I don't see how the 300, claimed above, can be possible without some fogging!
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Old 05-12-2012   #56
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Quote:
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What about lightmeters?

A couple of years ago when I visited Greece I noticed that my Weston Euromaster didn't work. It was fine before I left, so I figured the security scans had overloaded the selenium cell, or something like that... Likely?
Not likely, most probably something else broke.
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Old 05-13-2012   #57
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I've read lots of threads about the harmful affects of x-rays, but have yet to see much evidence. Nobody ever has a photograph to post.

I've put film through 15-20 x-rays in the past, and haven't seen any harmful affects. Forget asking for hand checks in most countries; they just don't know what you're talking about.

If it happens, it's very bad luck, but I wouldn't worry about.
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Old 05-13-2012   #58
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The worst case was the security at my hometown airport of Denver where the man in charge decided to take each roll film (50 in total) out of their wrappers and check it for fun!
The screeners at DIA are uncommonly dull-witted. TSA bottom quartile for sure.
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Old 05-13-2012   #59
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Yes, I'd be keen that people didn't worry unnecessarily about film checked into hand luggage. Flying is stressful enough, without worrying about other stuff like this!

I even took my camera to Chernobyl last year and that xrays there didn't damage the film!
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Old 05-19-2012   #60
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Yes, I'd be keen that people didn't worry unnecessarily about film checked into hand luggage. Flying is stressful enough, without worrying about other stuff like this!

I even took my camera to Chernobyl last year and that xrays there didn't damage the film!
Off topic, but say, you've got some nice stuff on flickr!
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Old 07-06-2012   #61
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i get film hand inspected. It hasn't been an issue.
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