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Micro 4/3 Cameras This forum is for all Micro 4/3 cameras of any camera make.

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Old 04-30-2012   #101
hteasley
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The argument "even small sensor equipment can produce good photos" isn't a particularly interesting one. Of course it can.

But to leap from that to saying, "small sensor equipment can produce any photo that a full-frame camera can produce," which is the logical basis for saying, "you don't need FF anymore," is just silly. There are images that a FF camera can make that a small sensor camera cannot (shallower DoF images for a given FoV). So, if you want to make images that only FF cameras can make, you need a FF camera.
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Old 04-30-2012   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeturnum View Post
P.s. The philosophy behind writing a piece like this seems a little silly. You're just trying to convince avowed gear-purists that they should expand their dogma to include another format. It's like trying to convince a catholic each individual protestant denomination is Christian, as opposed to "protestants" as a whole.
word "evangelism" came to my mind earlier to describe whats happening here.
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Old 04-30-2012   #103
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It's this way.
It's not this way.
That way is better. This way can never be that way.
If you want that way, you can't choose this way.
This way is as good as that way.
This way can never replace that way.
There is no way.
There is only way.
Only trolls write about that way when we're clearly talking about this way.
Only trolls write about this way when we all know that way is better, so shut up already.
It's wrong to suggest anything other than this way is the only way.
It's wrong to suggest anything, especially this way, can replace that way.
Those who believe in this way really shouldn't blog about it.
This is the place to talk about this way, not that way. Take your that way over there, why would you even bring it up?
Are you so self-conscious that you even need to write about this way publicly?
Don't you know that the X-1 Pro blows this way and that way out of the water?
It's not the way that matters it's the person going down it.
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Old 04-30-2012   #104
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As they say at Pimlico, the only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on one.
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Old 04-30-2012   #105
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Well I really like the E-M5 and have one ordered. It is what it is and will more than be good for what I want it for. DPRs review is very good.
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Old 04-30-2012   #106
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Panasonic is superior in some ways to Olympus...fast primes they are ahead in and a better ultrawide, but one thing i could never get used to is the Panny jpeg engine...that's really an Oly strong suit. Not to start yet another RAW/JPEG thread (yikes) but Oly's engine is so good that I rarely had cause to use RAW; I couldn't get better results using ACR. That keeps me on the Oly side of things. I've compared it to every JPEG engine around--Pentax, Ricoh, Nikon, Canon, Sony and Panny's, and Oly does it best. Even DPreview says that they can hardly get more detail from the RAW then Oly's engine does. Saves me a lot of PP time.

Yeah yeah yeah, losing data and less choices, I shot with slide film and never had PP choices either. This is me, only me, I'm nuts, do NOT make this thread about that unless that old pull toy pro/nopro is getting salivalogged and you really want to move on to a pointless debate.

Meanwhile I look forward to saving hours on PP and making my magazine happy with the images I deliver from the E-M5. I get paid for that, too.
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Old 04-30-2012   #107
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The things i shoot these days, professionally are for internet. i use a point and shoot digital. Sometimes film that's scanned at higher resolution,approx 6mp.
i downsize to 640 or 800 to prevent some copying.The use of hi-speed lenses for tiny depth of field applauded on all forums is not really liked by the general public. Ask! i have learnt to really like almost everything in focus.
Full frame means 35mm, 36 x 24. End of story.
i loved half frame in 35mm using Pens. They were though unsuited to hard professional work.hopefully this has changed. The Pen system looks very attractive to this Leica user..

Last edited by leicapixie : 04-30-2012 at 15:48. Reason: spelling error
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Old 04-30-2012   #108
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Which Sony Jpegs have you worked with? I have shot many Olympus cameras and as much as I like Olympus colors my a850 Jpegs have stunning color depth. Large prints looks creamy smooth compared to what I got out of my E5.
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Old 04-30-2012   #109
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I learned with the Nex 5N that a mirrorless camera needs one of two things, preferably both: EVF and stabilization. The latter is more versatile...I find I enjoy composing and shooting off the rear LCD in many situations, but the lack of stabilization on the 5N meant more blur than I would have liked. I think any camera that is designed for off-LCD shooting needs to have stabilization. You're loosing the third leg of the human tripod shooting away from your face and I never realized how important those three contact points (both hands and face) were in stable shooting. Though the Nex 5N's teeny-tiny size probably didn't help. (I'm not bashing the 5N, it's an impressive little camera, just being honest about its deficiencies for my use.)

So for me the EVF in the E-M5 and the stabilization means the best of both worlds...I'm curious what I will favor in use.

I have an x100 and it's hard to use the EVF after using the OVF!

I've used JPEGs from the A850, A580 and Nex 5N. My rank order is Oly, Sony/Nikon, Canon/Pentax, Ricoh was the pits until I tried the M8 in JPEG, in which case everything else is like the first time I got glasses when I was a kid. Oh, that's the world sharp!
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Old 05-01-2012   #110
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Most of the Sony E mount lenses are optically stabilized. I agree in body is a better way. But with that none of the Pens stabilization was nearly as good to me as the 4/3rd line.
To be honest only a couple of times have I got blurry pictures with my NEX 7. I can push the ISO of the NeX high enough to get what I want and still get a good shot. High ISO shots with the Pens were never good enough, they need stabilization.
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Old 05-01-2012   #111
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I think it's the camera designers who need to do the reconsidering.

Phone cameras do a pretty good job for the tiny size they are.

Given Moore's law, maybe sensors should be smaller than micro 4/3 so that lenses could be faster and longer and still portable.

So in micro 4/3, why can't I get equivalent images perspective and DOF-wise to a 35mm film camera with smaller lighter micro 4/3 lenses. Micro 4/3 12mm f1.0 (=24mm f2), 25mm f0.5 (=50mm f1), 50mm f1 (=100mm f2, and we can get one of those now, but I want a 50mm f1 macro to do the job of my Zuiko 90mm f2 macro), 100mm f1.x, etc. When the micro 4/3 lens designers figure they can make possible better images on micro 4/3 than are feasible on full frame digital cameras, they will have changed the game and photographers will vote with their feet.....
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Old 05-01-2012   #112
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Bluey I think that you 're right when you say that the onus lies on the camera designer and not on the photographer. The Photographer be it pro or amateur chooses/ or should choose the camera that suits his work /him best. Same goes for Motion picture work.

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Old 05-01-2012   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatidua View Post
Irrespective of all the tech-speak, why do so many people see it as their calling in life to convince others of the virtues of the 4/3 cameras? (or FF sensors, or medium format over 35mm, Etc).

As the article seems to at least slightly be portraying a professional setting, it bears mentioning that I have yet to meet a single competent pro who needs a blog to tell him/her what gear to use in order to satisfy his/her clients needs. Nor, have any of my clients cared what I use to get the results they are paying for, they simply want the image/s. The author acts as if he was hesitant to immediately let his clients in on what tool he used for the job (as if it would matter...).

If someone wants a 4/3 camera, fantastic - go buy one. They are not appropriate for the needs of some and no amount of blogging on their merits is going to change that.
It's called *a discussion*, my dear fellow.
Also known as, exchanging ideas or thoughts.

Some of you in this thread confuse that with indoctrination.

Pro or not, if you don't want to consider what people think out there, then you are closing your mind.

Of course there aren't going to be a lot of pros who proclaimed that they got an idea from a blog. But if you think that is not happening, well, you haven't been paying too much attention.
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Old 05-01-2012   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfox View Post
...

Of course there aren't going to be a lot of pros who proclaimed that they got an idea from a blog. But if you think that is not happening, well, you haven't been paying too much attention.
My professional work has benefited greatly by incorporating ideas, methods and techniques. I consider keeping abreast of what's happening and changing to be part of my responsibilities to my clients.

Like any information on the Internet, you must carefully evaluate if the writer really knows what they're talking about and if their point of view is relevant to your goals.

It' not "happening" yet for me.

Using 7-14 mm focal length lenses and sensors with reduced dynamic range and signal-to-noise ratios is the opposite of what I need. The focal lengths don't interest me because apparently it's difficult to produce even small lenses that perform well at the angles of view I need. The sensor performance is important because about 80% of my subjects exceed the dynamic range of my 24 x36 mm sensor.
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Old 05-02-2012   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKR View Post
J'ai osé...Olympus OM-D E-M5 versus Nikon D700

http://lepidi-photo.blogspot.fr/2012...sus-nikon.html
Thanks PKR for your input. I find this thread interesting both from a personal point of view (I'm looking for a small high performance digital camera ) and also from a more general point of view, how the changes in technology are accepted, better how they are view by various photographers...
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Old 05-02-2012   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PKR View Post
Physics or ITLOPS
I don't think it's physics. The relationship between field of view, image size, f-stop is well described. It's more economics/business that determines where money is spent.

Bottom line for me - I've been waiting to find a proper replacement for my OM-4 and zuiko primes. The OM-D is the first serious candidate but has a few design compromises I'm not to sure about yet.....and the lenses I'd like are still in the works.

Last edited by Doug : 05-03-2012 at 21:14. Reason: film vs digital
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Old 05-02-2012   #117
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Originally Posted by willie_901 View Post
My professional work has benefited greatly by incorporating ideas, methods and techniques. I consider keeping abreast of what's happening and changing to be part of my responsibilities to my clients.

Like any information on the Internet, you must carefully evaluate if the writer really knows what they're talking about and if their point of view is relevant to your goals.

It' not "happening" yet for me.

Using 7-14 mm focal length lenses and sensors with reduced dynamic range and signal-to-noise ratios is the opposite of what I need. The focal lengths don't interest me because apparently it's difficult to produce even small lenses that perform well at the angles of view I need. The sensor performance is important because about 80% of my subjects exceed the dynamic range of my 24 x36 mm sensor.
Willie,
Sometimes what you take out of a blog (or whatever form ideas are expressed in nowadays), is: "Not for me."

That's is completely okay. And it does not invalidated the notion that we learn a lot from what or how others think. Pro or not.
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Old 05-02-2012   #118
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Originally Posted by PKR View Post
It occured to me that after reading your post, that this thread might be a good tutorial on thread behavior. If you look at the various participants and their contribtutions; and what information some might take away from the thread vs others and the behavior (nothing out of line) commonly found on a forum from the Arpanet days on.. It makes an interesting little capsule of web -forum behavior. Of note are the OT inserts - like this one..

If the same dicussion were to happen in person, with all the players face to face sitting at a table drinking their favorite beverage, I'll bet the dynamic (as we know) would be very different.

In a forum like this, with so many different topics to choose from, and a thread like this posted under MFT - why would anyone ask why ideas about MFT are being exchanged?

Only under the cloke of anonymity is this kind of behavior seen.
PKR, it is what it is.
Internet forums do afford some measure of anonymity and it's true, that emboldens us to speak our mind.

But sometimes that can be a good thing.
For example, how many times I've said to myself "now why did I wrote THAT???"

And that gives me a chance to re-evaluate myself and discover what makes me react a certain way.

It's cheaper than paying a visit to the psychologist for sure
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Old 05-02-2012   #119
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I've bookmarked this thread. Reading this, sipping a glass of vino at night...presto, I'm asleep. Better than any sleeping pill.
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Old 05-02-2012   #120
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Thanks PKR for your answer. I started to use the x1 (german one!) and as consequence I appreciate the benefits of digital (in a small size camera). The 35mm is the focal lens I use most of time on my film camera, let say 70% and in this respect the x1 is ok for me. But I miss the medium-tele chance for the other 30% ! Therefore I think about an MFT camera with a 45/50 mm (90 eq) to have beside my x1.
I do not print bigger than A3 (30x42 cm or 11.69 × 16.54 in) and I guess the MFT sensor size could give good results...
robert
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Old 05-02-2012   #121
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Thanks, but what I would like is to fill the gap in the 75-90 (eq) lens. The x100 is 35 eq. Maybe the x1pro, but first I want to test one...I know, I'm a difficult buyer...
robert
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Old 05-03-2012   #122
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Originally Posted by Steve M. View Post
I've bookmarked this thread. Reading this, sipping a glass of vino at night...presto, I'm asleep. Better than any sleeping pill.
Glad to be of service!
The bill is on its way to you.
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Old 05-03-2012   #123
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Will;

I'm with Steve M. After reading this thread as well as the links provided, it has me seriously considering selling my Nikon D7000 and lenses and getting an OMD. I never paid much attention to the 4/3 format or the OMD but now.....the more I read, the more interested I become.

Thanks!
Paul
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Old 05-04-2012   #124
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Will;

I'm with Steve M. After reading this thread as well as the links provided, it has me seriously considering selling my Nikon D7000 and lenses and getting an OMD. I never paid much attention to the 4/3 format or the OMD but now.....the more I read, the more interested I become.

Thanks!
Paul
I don't blame you, Paul.
I'm concentrating all my funds to launch a website.
Otherwise, I'd be shooting with a black OM-D already
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Old 05-04-2012   #125
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That 45 1.8 and either the Panny 40 1.7 or the Leica 25 1.5 are calling me!!! Assuming I take the plunge, can't decide to go silver body or black; they both look so damn cute!!

Paul
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