Folders for 120 & 220 films

[Waterman100]

I've been bitten by the MF bug. I am thinking of getting a folder as a travel companion (I already have a beautiful TLR, Ikoflex III) and would like to consider one that also takes 220 films.

I only know of one folder that does, the Bessa III (or the Fuji equivalent). But it is too expensive. Are there other folders that take 220? Many thanks for the help.

[mooge]

Plaubel Makina 670? probably not cheap either...

[sevo]

The Plaubel Makina 670 did - technically a strut camera rather than folder, but so what. Don't remember whether any of the 645 Fujis took 220. All other higher end folders preceded the introduction of 220 by a decade or more, at least regarding the design date, so they cannot support it.

[Waterman100]

Originally Posted by sevo

All other higher end folders preceded the introduction of 220 by a decade or more, at least regarding the design date, so they cannot support it.

I see, no wonder this forum is called 120 RF Folders... Thanks for the help.

[sevo]

Originally Posted by Waterman100

I see, no wonder this forum is called 120 RF Folders... Thanks for the help.

Yep, 220 is quite surprisingly young - it only started in 1965.

[nosmok]

Check out my previous post in this or one of the other 120 threads, forget which one-- you can do 220 in a later Kodak Monitor 620, if you're willing to re-spool (or take out the feed side film holder). Procedure is this, after respool or feed side mod:

1) Wind 220 leader on take up to position the big start arrow in the red window.
2) Tape over window with black light tight tape
3) Wind 7.5 turns more to get to beginning of film.
4) Engage counter mechanism
5) when you've gone through 8, set dial back to 1, do 2nd 8 (you may have film enough for up to 18 shots)
6) wind off, develop, ask for spool and paper back.

Sure Monitors have bellows issues, but the last one I bought, with the fantastic "Lumenized" Anastigmat Special that is the ultimate bang for the buck resolution-wise that you can get, apparently, cost me all of 22.00. I can put a gold plated bellows on it and still be ahead of any other 220 rig. Plus it folds up into a real tidy package and has a parallax-correctable viewfinder. Still must guess the distance though, or carry a pocket rangefinder.

--nosmok

[Argenticien]

Am I correct in estimating there are about 4 films left in 220 size, and Portra is the only one sold in US? (I see you're in NY.) Then there are Fuji Pro 400 and Velvia 50 and 100 if you want to import them yourself expensively (through Japan Exposures etc.). And no B&W. I know some bricks of discontinued 220 emulsions (maybe even B&W) from people's freezers go up for sale on eBay sometimes but that won't last forever. So I wouldn't go out of your way looking for a camera that takes 220. I have two that are capable (SLR & TLR, not folders), and find that I never use 220. (Granted, I make a point of buying film from my local shop and they've no 220 at all, so that's part of it; and also I shoot very little color.)
--Dave

[kuzano]

1) much more attention need be paid to loading unloading.... light problems on roll with no paper backing.
2) Very few 220 emulsions left
3) Jamming on the takeup spool unless you can truly load the film tight on the takeup spool. loose early takeup will jam halfway through the roll of 220. Possible light flare on sides of exposures.

220 just not worth the hassle IMEOP,

Just shoot 120, and your experience will keep you shooting old folders longer, and satisfactorily.

Most folders, particularly those with ruby windows, just weren't fine tuned to 220... no changes in film plane position is another issue, leading to film flatness issues. You should shim the film plane for the film plane placement on 220. As you know, most dual 120/220 cameras have a position switch or at least a reversible film plate to adapt to the two thicknesses.

[umcelinho]

good point, dave.

i think its better to shoot 2 120 than 1 220, you get to pick a more adequate iso for the scenes since you'll finish the roll faster and loading is not such a hassle that would justify 220. i used to shoot 220 in my mamiya c330 but because of costs, since the price for developing 120 or 220 is the same at the lab i take my film to.

[kuzano]

My particular choice is:

1) Close the camera without advancing/cocking. This leaves the just exposed frame on the film plate
2) Open the camera and then advance the film/cock the shutter.
3) Never advance before storing the camera.

Reasons.

Opening many old folders causes a vacuum on the film, pulling the film from the plate. If you advanced the film before closing, you have just now pulled the film from the plate... causing the film NOT to be flat.
Advancing the film AFTER opening the camera rolls the film tight and close to the film plate.

A tight load on closing the camera at the leader will also guard against film spacing problems.

Folders can deliver great and consistent results by paying a little consistent attention and good habits upon usage. Over the years these few techniques have improved my old folder experience, and I have had folders that have consistently outshot many SLR's and Rangefinder cameras.

Good luck....stick to 120 and be happy.

[graywolf]

Never advance the film because opening the camera will warp the film, and never leave the shutter cocked because it will weaken the spring.

Two bits of BS in my experience. Maybe back in the 1900's steel was that weak. And I suggest controlling the opening of the camera as not to damage it. When you do that there is no way there is going to be a vacuum pulling the film away from the pressure plate. Cameras are not air tight. But if a million people repeat BS, it must be true.

[KoNickon]

Do the Fuji folders (645 series) take 220? I know the GS645S (the "rollbar" one) does, as does the 645zi, but neither is a folder.

[KoNickon]

Good advice. And in order to make sure you don't skip frames or make double exposures, look for folders that prevent either from happening. Some cameras lock the shutter until you have wound the film, and have a telltale red mark on the top deck or maybe in the finder. Very useful indeed.

Originally Posted by kuzano

My particular choice is:

1) Close the camera without advancing/cocking. This leaves the just exposed frame on the film plate
2) Open the camera and then advance the film/cock the shutter.
3) Never advance before storing the camera.

Reasons.

Opening many old folders causes a vacuum on the film, pulling the film from the plate. If you advanced the film before closing, you have just now pulled the film from the plate... causing the film NOT to be flat.
Advancing the film AFTER opening the camera rolls the film tight and close to the film plate.

A tight load on closing the camera at the leader will also guard against film spacing problems.

Folders can deliver great and consistent results by paying a little consistent attention and good habits upon usage. Over the years these few techniques have improved my old folder experience, and I have had folders that have consistently outshot many SLR's and Rangefinder cameras.

Good luck....stick to 120 and be happy.