Is the "Rangefinder Renaissance" kicked off by Voigtlander over?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by froyd

Personally, I'm glad Cosina is not pumping out a new RF body every year or so. leave that that rat race for digital bodies.

Too bad though that their prices have jumped so much... I bought my R2a for $500, now they are $700 --just a couple hundred $ more and you are in Leica territory.

Comparing used Leica to new Cosina doesn't work for me ... the logical match for an R2A is a fifty year old M2 that back in it's day probably cost a month's wages for the average buyer.

[daveleo]

Originally Posted by Keith

I think it is a little now .... and Mr K needs to think about a digital body to ignite lens sales.

Re-vamp the RD-1 with a new full frame 12 or 18 megapixel sensor for around $2500 to $3500 and you have serious competition for all the other wannabes out there that are pretending to be M mount bodies!

Yikes . . . wouldn't that be something !
I'd actually sell some stuff to by that jewel.

[View~Finder]

Originally Posted by mdarnton

Don't care about LTM, don't care about digital--they're leaving themselves a smaller and smaller slice of a small market. But hey, it worked for Kodak! :-)

Well said!

[segedi]

Originally Posted by slackercruster

I have heard CV lenses mentioned before, but am not familiar with them at all. What is the deal with them?

Think Sigma for the rangefinder.

CV (Cosina Voigtlander) lenses make up the entry level for Leica LTM and M mount. They also make SLR lenses and S mount lenses too, but normally on RFF the talk is about the Leica mounts.

I think they represent good value - I had a Zeiss ZM 21mm f/2.8 and sold it and picked up a CV 21mm f/4. The CV 21mm lens is tiny, puts out a great image. And costs 1/3 to 1/4 the Zeiss lens I sold. The other offerings for fast glass give near Noctilux speed for 1/10th the cost.

[funkydog]

Forgive the offtopic comment but that's a perspective of Lake Louise that few people get to see. Must have been a long hike.

[dreamsandart]

I remember very well with fondness being at an annual reenactment of a centuries old royal precession in Kyoto not long after the Bessa cameras and Voigtlander lenses were introduced and seeing someone with a couple around his neck. He was having a very good time, taking lots of photos, and the system I knew was affordable which made it even better in my mind. No it wasn't Leica, like the ones I was sporting, but I did have a bit of envy because it was all there. I guess I felt he was part of a 'renaissance' in a style I took for granted. Before the 'price of admission' could only be bought with a classic Leica/Nikon rangefinder.

'Renaissance'? Yes, in a small way. Anyone that works now or in the past with rangefinder cameras - and that means most of the folks here - owes a bit of thanks to Kobayashi-san. I think he did something a lot of photographers wanted (even if they didn't know it at the time) and was successful in his vision. It could even be asked; Would Leica be where its at now without Cosina Voigtlander?

Is it over… ? (the original question) Like many things that change, we forget how it was back a few years ago. Leicas and rangefinder cameras were in use, but not even close to mainstream. Now we have successful full frame digital rangefinders, the M-mount has become a standard and used on smaller format compact digital cameras with adapters ( just saw a new Japanese publication devoted to old lenses on new digital bodies. The Japanese are usually ahead of the curve, so take note), and the new lens selection from multiple companies is beyond anything I could have imagined.

Digital has changed things again. The film based RF renaissance may be over, but… It would be nice to see a few less expensive RF and full frame sensor cameras to kick off another evolution level of use.

[MartinP]

Originally Posted by shadowfox

If I were in Mr. K's position, the next thing is to strike a deal with Ilford or Fuji to make film processing a bit easier for those who came from digital (assumed nowadays) and would like to "try film." How? that's another discussion.

It is very simple already! For black-and-white processing, write the Ilford address on an envelope with a stamp, put the film and order information inside, post it to Ilford and a week or so later receive your prints on the doormat. For colour, do the same but using a different address. Many of the large national-scale colour labs, for "happy-snaps" here in Europe, are indeed run by Fuji or using their machinery. Your wishes have already been granted

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

I doubt there was ever a renaissance... just another player in the niche market.

BINGO

6 7 8 9 0

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Bill58

I always thought that the term "RF-renaissance" was just a lot of hype dreamed up by somebody in Calif.

BINGO

6 7 8 9 0

[tom.w.bn]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

... so true, and I understand Mr K will be talking to Apple about organising the software and user interface

Hopefully not. It may look nice from right from the start but we will have to wait a few years for all necessary features.

[teleparallel]

I think they should make a sequel of the R-d1, with APS-C sized sensor, and a set of dedicated lenses, such 14mm f/4, 18mm f/2, 23mm f/2.5(1.4). The rest of the focal lengths are the usual lenses. This way all this products could stil bel affordable(fuji did, so can cosina), no problems regarding the large sensor and bayer system(since it can be optimized on the lens, by adding back focusing designs). People with old glass would be happy to use old lenses. All cosina need is a partner, for the sensor.

Film is in a way dying. I think Ilford will be there forever, and maybe Kodak, but things will start to get expensive(they already are in Brazil). Go digital and keep nice prices is a way to stay in the market, aside making lenses for other camera brands.

[fotomeow]

"Is the "Rangefinder Renaissance" kicked off by Voigtlander over?"


I know what you mean, but not sure if "Renaissance" is the word I would use to describe it.
Its a tricky one, and I am probably splitting hairs here.
I mean, the Leica/Canon/Nikon, etc RFs have been around for decades, with only Leica making new products until CV jumped in.
I guess I would say it was the CV Marketing, modernized lenses, and competitive pricing that sparked a renewed interest in RF gear.
And producing the first dRF wasnt so much renaissance in my mind, but cutting edge leaders.

In any case, Renaissance or whatever it is, I dont think it is over for two reasons. One is that CV is still putting out quality RF lenses,
albeit at a slower rate than before. And two, the used market for CV lenses is very active. They have almost maxed out what
they can do with film RF cameras for as "mass market" of a crowd the RFers will ever be. He can successfully put on more RF products,
but they will have to be more "niche" than before, for a select crowd. Think Limited Production.

Its unfortunate that Mr K said he was only interested in analog. The Japanese culture is very culture and integrity driven,
meaning that if he goes back on his word, he will catch tons of sh*t and lose street cred.

[Vics]

Originally Posted by jsrockit

I doubt there was ever a renaissance... just another player in the niche market.

I agree. I started thinking about RF seriously in about 2000 and discovered CameraQuest in about 2003. Now I'm always behind the times and I don;t think Mr. Gandy was even discussing Cosina at that time, but he sure seemed to be leading the charge in the RF world back then. Maybe it all resulted in the current Mirror-less digi craze. I've only gotten as far as the M3.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by fotomeow

The Japanese culture is very culture and integrity driven, meaning that if he goes back on his word, he will catch tons of sh*t and lose street cred.

So, in Japan, you are not allowed to change your mind? How does one evolve and learn? Just curious.

[dct]

Originally Posted by slackercruster

Very nice!

I thought I read on Ken Rockwell that the 21 Voigt was not a good choice for digital? So I avoided it.

Ken's site is interesting and worth reading. But he has a very dedicated belief which doesn't always match the experience of others or mine. So take his articles always with a pinch of salt and don't make decisions based only on his opinions.

[traveler_101]

I think renaissance--"rebirth"--is a good word for what has happened. There is a relation between Mr. Kobayashi's producing and marketing an affordable film rangefinder camera and lenses--a kind of rebirth of an old classic, the LTM camera, and all kinds of developments in the photography world today--from the new small mirror-less cameras to the interest in b&w--aimed at recovering the skill and excitement of the hobby photography once was and has become again.
Thanks to Mr. Kobayashi I was able to purchase affordable CV lenses for my m43 camera and then moved on to b&w film photography when I realized I could best use the CV lenses that way.

[NazgulKing]

Originally Posted by mdarnton

One of my disappointments is that the only company that seems to be interested in the Leica nostalgia market has thrown off LTM people, completely. All of the new lenses are M, and it appears all of the LTM stuff is discontinued. Given the number of LTM cameras around, and the fact that an adapter turns an LTM into an M lens, the one place they built their brand seems to be the one place they don't care about anymore.

Don't care about LTM, don't care about digital--they're leaving themselves a smaller and smaller slice of a small market. But hey, it worked for Kodak! :-)

Cosina makes more money making Zeiss SLR lenses than making RF lenses.

And let's be frank here. Digital entails a massive amount of investment, something that Cosina cannot afford. At best they supply the RF and the body, but someone else must be willing to supply the electronics.