Contax II problems after new ribbons - Page 2

Elmar Lang · 03-08-2012

Thank you very much anyways for the info.

E.L.

micromoogman · 03-09-2012

Thanks for help all! I have now a delicate job to put the spring back to work... It looks really bad. It was broken at the anchor point, but that's at least the most fortunate place. Plan B, the most probable, will be to chop a Kiev for parts.

BTW, Rick Oleson has a massive documentation for the job, with the complete disassembly of the lower drum.

Highway 61 · 03-09-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by micromoogman

BTW, Rick Oleson has a massive documentation for the job, with the complete disassembly of the lower drum.

Of course he has

Well the center spring has the typical look of an overtensioned one, another good drum coming from a Kiev shutter will be the best option.

Caveat : buy several Kiev shutter curtains assemblies. To fix my Contax shutter I had bought two Kiev shutter assemblies, that was wise because one drum was in the same condition as my (your) Contax one...

Example of an interesting buy : eBay 350361150000

Good luck with the repair, nothing that can't be done.

Elmar Lang · 03-09-2012

I remember that in the past, it was possible to find some interesting wooden boxes full of original spare parts for rangefinder Kievs, each piece well packed and labelled with its part-no.

micromoogman · 03-09-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highway 61

Of course he has

Well the center spring has the typical look of an overtensioned one, another good drum coming from a Kiev shutter will be the best option.

Caveat : buy several Kiev shutter curtains assemblies. To fix my Contax shutter I had bought two Kiev shutter assemblies, that was wise because one drum was in the same condition as my (your) Contax one...

Example of an interesting buy : eBay 350361150000

Good luck with the repair, nothing that can't be done.

Well, that information wasn't exactly readily available...

I took the spring off the spindle, carefully bending it to look something close to the original appearance. Not a chance it's possible, but close enough and it might go was my thought. And lo and behold, mine worked. At least so so. As you correctly pointed out ten times, the ribbons sits too tight... I will buy from Aki-Asahi instead. I will mount it and test drive it harder to see if those ribbons will "burn in"...

Thanks, I will check that Ebay auction too.

micromoogman · 03-09-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmar Lang

I remember that in the past, it was possible to find some interesting wooden boxes full of original spare parts for rangefinder Kievs, each piece well packed and labelled with its part-no.

Oh, those boxes, where are they now?!?

micromoogman · 03-09-2012

Update, it's slipping again. I'll wait for a Kiev... *sigh*

Elmar Lang · 03-09-2012

I don't know where they are now...

I know the whereabouts of two of them: in my collection. One still closed and originally factory sealed; another one, opened, but kept complete.

Let's say in 1993-96 they were realtively easy to find at one of our local flea markets, located in Piazzola sul Brenta (province of Padua, Italy), where people from Eastern Europe had their tables, selling any type of ex-USSR camera. I can't forget that one day, I missed to buy a complete, soviet "Reporter" outfit in the original leather case, with "pasport" and instructions...

Crazy Fedya · 03-09-2012

I am sorry, if i come across thick-headed, but I still don't understand how do I remove first curtain with the drum from shutter crate?

micromoogman · 03-09-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Fedya

I am sorry, if i come across thick-headed, but I still don't understand how do I remove first curtain with the drum from shutter crate?

Push the axle from left to right. Pop out the bushing at the right hand side, which makes clearance for swinging out the drum.

------

"I would recommend the Arsenal ribbon, I think it's probably about as good as anything you'll find"

Rick Oleson via mail...

Highway 61 · 03-10-2012

When nothing else can be sourced the Arsenal ribbon can be used in a Contax shutter but you will have to modify the 1st curtain clutches so that there is less friction there. Fiddly and risky, because that part is very fragile.

Using Aki-Asahi ribbon and bending the clutches bars a bit downwards so that you add friction is easy, so the Japanese ribbon is a way better option.

Use the forum search engine and get ZorkiKat's threads back, especially the one in which he explained that he had tested the black silk ribbon durability with great success.

Dez · 03-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Fedya

I am sorry, if i come across thick-headed, but I still don't understand how do I remove first curtain with the drum from shutter crate?

Not thick headed at all. It is quite a delicate operation. It is very well explained in a Hove Book by Peter Tooke, titled Zeiss Contax Repair Manual Models II and III. There is a lot of good information there, and has saved me from costly errors a number of times.

Once the roller is out of the camera (and note carefully any shimming on its axle)and the shutter tapes have been removed from the roller, take the setscrew out of the right hand tape drum cap, and remove the cap. Carefully remove the leather piece, and loosten, but do not completely remove the four screws holding the internal bits into the roller. Carefully slide the curtain assembly toward the end where you have removed the cap. It will fit through the gap in the tape drum with the removed cap. You might want to consider running the curtain through an ultrasonic cleaner if it is not completely supple. Then remove the four screws and gently push the inner assemble ou the same end as the curtain. You will find gently prying the slot apart with a knife blade to be very helpful here. I agree that substituting the roller assembly from a Kiev, hopefully an older one, is the way to go. Don't feel squeamish about it- the original Contax part is no better than the Kiev one. The center spring in your picture is definitely beyond hope. Getting the internal collars lined up so you can put the screws back in is a vocabulary-builder.

When you put everything back together, all the springs need to be wound completely down so when tensioned they are even. That's what makes replacing just one shutter tape generally not a great idea. Oh yes, and wind the screw conterclockwise in a Contax 2 or 3, and clockwise (at the other end) in a Contax 1, if you are foolhardy enough to dig into one of those.

Tension the springs to the smallest amount you can get away with. Tooke recommends 200 gm force on a spring gauge, with the shutter wound most of the way to the top of the aperture.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Dez

Dez · 03-12-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Highway 61

Using Aki-Asahi ribbon and bending the clutches bars a bit downwards so that you add friction is easy, so the Japanese ribbon is a way better option.
.

Be careful with that. Check the amount of friction you had with the original tape, and make SURE you have no more with the replacement tape.

Cheers,

Dez

Crazy Fedya · 03-14-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by micromoogman

Push the axle from left to right. Pop out the bushing at the right hand side, which makes clearance for swinging out the drum.

------

"I would recommend the Arsenal ribbon, I think it's probably about as good as anything you'll find"

Rick Oleson via mail...

Tried this, couldn't do it. I think I will just sell the Contax II with the problem. I don't want to screw it up. Thanks for your help

Crazy Fedya · 03-14-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dez

Not thick headed at all. It is quite a delicate operation. It is very well explained in a Hove Book by Peter Tooke, titled Zeiss Contax Repair Manual Models II and III. There is a lot of good information there, and has saved me from costly errors a number of times.

Once the roller is out of the camera (and note carefully any shimming on its axle)and the shutter tapes have been removed from the roller, take the setscrew out of the right hand tape drum cap, and remove the cap. Carefully remove the leather piece, and loosten, but do not completely remove the four screws holding the internal bits into the roller. Carefully slide the curtain assembly toward the end where you have removed the cap. It will fit through the gap in the tape drum with the removed cap. You might want to consider running the curtain through an ultrasonic cleaner if it is not completely supple. Then remove the four screws and gently push the inner assemble ou the same end as the curtain. You will find gently prying the slot apart with a knife blade to be very helpful here. I agree that substituting the roller assembly from a Kiev, hopefully an older one, is the way to go. Don't feel squeamish about it- the original Contax part is no better than the Kiev one. The center spring in your picture is definitely beyond hope. Getting the internal collars lined up so you can put the screws back in is a vocabulary-builder.

When you put everything back together, all the springs need to be wound completely down so when tensioned they are even. That's what makes replacing just one shutter tape generally not a great idea. Oh yes, and wind the screw conterclockwise in a Contax 2 or 3, and clockwise (at the other end) in a Contax 1, if you are foolhardy enough to dig into one of those.

Tension the springs to the smallest amount you can get away with. Tooke recommends 200 gm force on a spring gauge, with the shutter wound most of the way to the top of the aperture.

Good luck!

Cheers,

Dez

Thank you Dez, but it seems to be too easy to screw up, and I have too much respect for Contax engineering to just screw it up

micromoogman · 03-15-2012

Press it firmly, but not too hard. It must go!

I am about to stitch the ribbons on mine now. Bought two Kievs with fine shutters to take parts from. I decided to use the drums along with the lower curtain from the Kiev. In that way I will use the correct friction loops for Arsenal ribbons. Contax has smaller frictions loops, I can confirm it now.

Highway 61 · 03-15-2012

Not too sure if the Kiev lower curtain catches can grip the Contax upper curtain dots properly (especially if you use Arsenal ribbon), and not too sure if the Contax main shutter release catch can release the (Kiev lower) shutter (curtain) properly, either.

By mixing those parts you may have capping problems (the two shutter curtains getting apart when you wind the shutter : film veiling) and firing problems (the shutter not wanting to fire or not wanting to remain cocked).

Time (and you) will tell.

Socrates · 04-06-2012

I know its not about the shutter ribsons, but wouldn't want to make a new thread for my question.
My Contax II came with the shutter speeds a bit low. After firing the shutter a few times it became "loser" and the speeds looked better but not correct. Then I opened the back of the shutter to look or there was something to see. To my suprise the shutter ribbons seems to be new and after some firing without the back (I actually don't mean the back of the camera but the thing where the film goes on and protect the shutter mechanism) the shutter speeds seams right fine. After put it together the shutter speed was like before, not correct.
The back must be slowing the curtains down or something like that. Has anyone a idea how to solve the problem?

Highway 61 · 04-06-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates

I know its not about the shutter ribsons, but wouldn't want to make a new thread for my question.
My Contax II came with the shutter speeds a bit low. After firing the shutter a few times it became "loser" and the speeds looked better but not correct. Then I opened the back of the shutter to look or there was something to see. To my suprise the shutter ribbons seems to be new and after some firing without the back (I actually don't mean the back of the camera but the thing where the film goes on and protect the shutter mechanism) the shutter speeds seams right fine. After put it together the shutter speed was like before, not correct.
The back must be slowing the curtains down or something like that. Has anyone a idea how to solve the problem?

Well this is another problem caused by using the Arsenal ribbon (if some has been used on your camera) on a Contax shutter. The inside of the shutter crate (the shutter cover you removed to get access to the shutter unit) may touch the ribbons when they enroll around their bottom rollers.

The fix is to file down the rails located at the bottom of the inside of the shutter crate.

This also happens when a Kiev shutter unit is fitted in a Contax II body, for the very same reasons. Removing half a millimeter of metal off the shutter crate bottom rails will fix it.

Socrates · 04-06-2012

Thanks for the help.
I can't build a cheap shutter speed tester now so I think to test it I will run a film through. I will post results as soon as I made the 36 exposures.

Is there anyway how to recognise a contax or kiev schutter?

micromoogman · 04-13-2012

OK. I didn't get the new ribbons to work (or if it was something else) with the mix of Kiev and Contax curtains. Physically the Arsenal ribbons should be fine with the lower curtain from the Kiev, and I can't see any other problems using them together. All measurements are identical. But my ribbons seem to sit too tight even for the Kiev... I don't know. I'll continue work on the shutter.
Meanwhile I will enjoy the 1963 Kiev shutter now implemented in the Contax. Two places needed to get some work with the file. The "fork" from the self timer hit the crate at one spot, also the Contax cover prevented the little arm in the advance mechanism to move freely... Another thing, the original shutter speed ring under the advance knob, didn't work either.
But still, I got a working Frankenstein's monster...named "Contiev"

Cheers all, and thanks especially to Highway 61.

micromoogman · 04-13-2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socrates

Thanks for the help.
I can't build a cheap shutter speed tester now so I think to test it I will run a film through. I will post results as soon as I made the 36 exposures.

Is there anyway how to recognise a contax or kiev schutter?

Both my Kiev shutters had numbers stamped in them. Kievs might have a flash synch contact. Contax has "weird" coarse threads all over the body. If you're swapping shutters make sure to use the right Contax screws. The lower drum's "lifting heel" or "brake", is made of leather on a Contax, Kiev some fabric...blueish on both mine...

micromoogman · 07-10-2012

Update. The Kiev shutter also broke down on me. Not while shooting film though. I ordered the Aki-Asahi ribbons and I must admit that these are better. Also for the Kiev. Everything was easier with these. The Arsenals were almost impossible to fit into the small holes in the secondary curtain.

phototooker · 07-17-2012

These info is so valuable, I just ruined my Kiev as my first trial

dee · 07-30-2012

If you can't get anywhere , Oleg could probably fix it for you - he usually does Kiev , but does tackle Leica , I don't see why he can't fix a Contax .

http://www.okvintagecamera.com/ I bought my 1st 1976 Kiev 4 & 4m from him with new meter cells and they work fine .

My Contax is a fran-kiev-stein - box of Contax II parts with new Kiev II shutter assembly - COMPLETE - which , in some respects , seems the right way to keep a Contax running . By ex-Arsenal techs .

They revived a Contax III for me with original shutter , and it works fine .
En Route is a terrible Contax II which they have completely revived ,with tan leather , but more brass than chrome LOL .