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Zorki 1 frame counter problems
Old 03-30-2012   #1
ray*j*gun
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Zorki 1 frame counter problems

So I caved in and bought another FSU (a mint Zorki 1e) after swearing I would never again.......so of course there is a problem although its the only issue so far after the first roll.

Ok the problem is when I set the frame counter to 0 (after the loading and advancing is all done) the first wind-on takes the counter to 3 not 1. Oddly after the first "jump" the counter advances as it should. Are these counters adjustable and if so how would one do it?

Thanks!!
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Old 03-30-2012   #2
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Oh BTW its a Zorki 1e if that makes a difference.....thanks in advance!!
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Old 03-30-2012   #3
pschauss
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Sometimes on the first advance after you reset the rewind lever the advance knob "free-wheels" a bit before it catches. That could throw off the counter. If it behaves normally after the first frame, just reset it and ignore the problem.
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Old 03-30-2012   #4
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Thanks Peter. I'm going to shoot a roll today and I'll see if the counter moves accurately after that first frame.
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Old 03-30-2012   #5
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As pschauss says, the winder may not "catch" first time around. It's not only a trait of the FSUs, many other cameras can do it. To avoid the problem, make sure it re-engages by turning the lever back to advance and winding on a couple of times. Do this before you try to re-load it.

If it continues to double-wind on a random basis, it's a fault and is usually caused by wear in the mechanics. I have a 1e that did this and I ended up pulling it all apart and making a bearing insert to fix a worn shell - hopefully you don't have this problem.
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Zorki: 1e (x2), 2C, 3M, 4, 4K, 5, 6
FED: NKVD, 1g, 2e, 3a, 3b, 4L (x2), 5B, 5C
Kiev 4, 4A
Leica IIIC
Yashica Minister III
Zenith C, Zenit C, Zenit E
Minolta XG M, Z1
Nikon P50
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Last edited by wolves3012 : 03-30-2012 at 06:10. Reason: more info
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Old 03-30-2012   #6
ray*j*gun
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Thanks Wolf..... its weird in that it seems to jump 3 frames only after the frame counter wheel is turned regardless whether it was rewound or not. Its like when the wheel is turned it sort of loses friction then bites again......does that make sense?

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Old 03-30-2012   #7
stratcat
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Yep, same happens with my FED 2 and 3. After shooting a bit with them I've learned the way each one likes to be setup when loading a fresh roll.
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Old 03-30-2012   #8
ray*j*gun
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lol of course..... I think that's why I keep going back to FSU's they are imperfect but beautiful things.

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Old 03-30-2012   #9
wolves3012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray*j*gun View Post
Thanks Wolf..... its weird in that it seems to jump 3 frames only after the frame counter wheel is turned regardless whether it was rewound or not. Its like when the wheel is turned it sort of loses friction then bites again......does that make sense?

Thanks
The frame counter is only held in place by a spring sitting under it, that's what provides the friction. If the winder knob itself turns only one full turn (ok, it's actually not exactly one turn but it's very close) per wind then maybe just the spring holding the counter in place is iffy.
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Zorki: 1e (x2), 2C, 3M, 4, 4K, 5, 6
FED: NKVD, 1g, 2e, 3a, 3b, 4L (x2), 5B, 5C
Kiev 4, 4A
Leica IIIC
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Old 03-31-2012   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray*j*gun View Post
....
Ok the problem is when I set the frame counter to 0 (after the loading and advancing is all done) the first wind-on takes the counter to 3 not 1. Oddly after the first "jump" the counter advances as it should. Are these counters adjustable and if so how would one do it?

Thanks!!
Just a few minutes ago I loaded my recently CLA'ed Zorki Ie (by Oleg) and it showed exactly the same behaviour, so I don't think that there is anything wrong with yours.
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Old 04-01-2012   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas78 View Post
Just a few minutes ago I loaded my recently CLA'ed Zorki Ie (by Oleg) and it showed exactly the same behaviour, so I don't think that there is anything wrong with yours.
I have several and none of them do this, so I am sure that the counter is supposed to move one division at a time. It is such a simple mechanism that it is hard to see how it could go wrong.
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Old 04-01-2012   #12
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Well be trial and error, I think I have a solution.

Once the camera is loaded and I wind on for the first frame, then I set the wheel on #1. From then on it advances one frame at a time. It seems that if I set the counter AFTER the shutter is cocked, it will not skip....I have no clue why but hey if that fixes it that's fine.
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Old 04-01-2012   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray*j*gun View Post
Well be trial and error, I think I have a solution.

It seems that if I set the counter AFTER the shutter is cocked, it will not skip....I have no clue why but hey if that fixes it that's fine.
I have noticed that if I am not careful when I set the film counter it may advance the film slightly when I try to set it. This will, of course, throw the setting off.

Good luck with your Zorki. I have found that a properly sorted out Zorki I is a real joy to use.
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Old 04-02-2012   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fanshaw View Post
I have several and none of them do this, so I am sure that the counter is supposed to move one division at a time. It is such a simple mechanism that it is hard to see how it could go wrong.
Unless the disc is loose on its fixing (which would be obvious), I'd go so far as to say it's not possible for anything to go wrong with the counter itself. What can go "wrong" is when turning the camera back to advance - the shutter mechanics don't always re-engage immediately, hence the odd results. Once the mechanics re-engage, only a shutter fault or loose disc can prevent the counter showing the correct frame.
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Zorki: 1e (x2), 2C, 3M, 4, 4K, 5, 6
FED: NKVD, 1g, 2e, 3a, 3b, 4L (x2), 5B, 5C
Kiev 4, 4A
Leica IIIC
Yashica Minister III
Zenith C, Zenit C, Zenit E
Minolta XG M, Z1
Nikon P50
Panasonic Lumix G2, Kit lens + 45-150mm

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Old 04-02-2012   #15
Thomas78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pschauss View Post
I have noticed that if I am not careful when I set the film counter it may advance the film slightly when I try to set it. This will, of course, throw the setting off.

Good luck with your Zorki. I have found that a properly sorted out Zorki I is a real joy to use.
My assumption is that your are right.
When the shutter is uncocked and you try to set the film counter by rotating it clockwise (the same direction as the film advance) there might be a possibility that the friction between the film counter and the advance knob also rotates the advance knob just a little bit.

Normally the advance would be 39 / 40 of one revolution which moves the friction film counter one image further.

If setting the film counter - by rotationg it clockwise - would rotate the advance knob - by friction - about 2 / 40 of a revolution as the film counter is set to "0", it olny needs to be rotated 37 / 40. Rotating the Knob for 37 / 40 would give a +3 on the film counter.

I will take a closer look when I will have finished the film in my Zorki Ie.
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Old 04-03-2012   #16
ray*j*gun
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Thank you Peter, Wolf and Thomas.

I have a number of Barnacks (including a IIIc K) and even a Canon IIIb and this is the first time I have had this issue. Again I don't know why but if I set the wheel to "1" after I wind-on, and ignore the "0" all together it seems to work ok. I can live with this if that's not a precursor to problems later.
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