film shipping question
Old 03-28-2012   #1
bruce1007
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film shipping question

Hi all, is there anyone knew weather the film would be radiated by security checking while it was on way of shipping? Any advise will be appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 03-28-2012   #2
damonsong
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I always wonder about this question too!
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Old 03-28-2012   #3
bruce1007
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seems no respond, means it's acceptable to go through the security radiation checking.
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Old 03-29-2012   #4
kanzlr
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not that much value in the information, but I had a few packages of Portra sent to me by airmail and they seem to be fine.
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Old 03-29-2012   #5
Steve Bellayr
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It is my understanding that there was a report on the news the Cargo planes x-ray very little of their cargo unlike passenger aircraft. The x-ray machines for checked luggage are much stronger than the ones for carry on luggage. FYI lead lined bags are useless as demonstrated to me by the x-ray technician at the airport. He advised that the x-rays went through the bag and he showed me the images. I have since ceased using lead lined bags and let my film go through x-rays. I have not had any problems. I even mistakenly let my film go through the stronger x-ray for checked luggage without any change to the film. This may be an Urban myth. I have my film shipped to me all the time.
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Old 03-29-2012   #6
smbilgin
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I had several times Lucky SHD 100 shipped out from Korea to Turkey and never had a problem. But it is slow film of course. Maybe someone has experience with fast films (like 800 ASA or faster).
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Old 03-29-2012   #7
haempe
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Had a load of Arista Premium 400 shipped from freestyle to europe.
No visible issues, also if pushed to 1600.
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Old 03-30-2012   #8
bruce1007
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Thank you all for the suggestion and experience sharing, but someone told me that there's effect for some high iso films, is that correct ?
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Old 03-30-2012   #9
Rom
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Hi,

I think you need to stop to worry about it. I have pass a dozen of Xray Check point and a box of roll in my bag. Then i kept my bag with me during all my job in my car (3 weeks) That means something like 30 degree during the day (east african project).

I came back through xray again, developped at home and it was all ok

I never had any problem, perhaps i am lucky i don't know. But, i think, you need to stop to worry and burn your film.


The theory of an urban legend could be possible IMO. Photographers of all the times seems to be very protective and anxious about there materials and tools ! It's all a kind of fetischism (i admit i am fetiscist too)

Good day
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Old 03-30-2012   #10
bruce1007
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OK, thank you Rom
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Old 03-31-2012   #11
jordanstarr
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I've travelled lots with film and it's hit-or-miss. I had a batch ruined by x-rays (400 and 100 film) in a lead xray bag going under carriage....then I've had film with no bag just fine. It's hard to give you a 100% answer because sometimes it happens. I had 40 rolls shipped and 4 were ruined by x-rays and the rest fine. However...99% of the time it has been fine, but if you can avoid chancing it, that's what I would do. Buy when you arrive and ship before you fly. Costs a little more in the long run, but I had a pretty big disappointment once and learned by lesson.
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Old 03-31-2012   #12
EdwardKaraa
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+1 to Jordan's post. Also just because you can't see any difference it doesn't mean there is no damage. To assess that, you would have to shoot the same scene with x-rayed and non x-rayed films and compare. I guess the most sound advice is to not to worry too much but try not to subject your film to x-rays repeatedly.
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Old 03-31-2012   #13
kanzlr
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this is what kodak says:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/servi.../tib5201.shtml

and on a pack of Superia 1600 I have here it also says that it should be protected from X-Rays.
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Old 03-31-2012   #14
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So far no problems at all with ISO 100, 200 and 400 color slide film.

Cheers, Jan
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Old 03-31-2012   #15
seifadiaz
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I used to get Kodak Tri-X 400 in 36exp rolls from Thailand and I have no problems.
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Old 03-31-2012   #16
DSkjaeve
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I'm was also looking for a clear answer for this.

Will send exposed film from Norway and US to Hungary. I've contacted the postal companies but no clear answer.

Seems people agree that in most cases it won't be a problem.
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Old 03-31-2012   #17
Rayt
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When you buy Fuji or Ilford film in the US how do you think they got there? Air freight maybe? I don't think it is anything to worry about.
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Old 03-31-2012   #18
kanzlr
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the problem seems to stem mostly from exposed, but not yet developed film.

Just read what Kodak writes.
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Old 03-31-2012   #19
EdwardKaraa
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Since the X-ray effect on film is accumulative, it makes sense to reduce the frequency of this exposure as much as possible. This said, I have travelled extensively in the past (when X-ray scans were probably stronger) with both exposed and unexposed film with no noticeable image deterioration.
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Old 03-31-2012   #20
njos
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nowadays most x-ray / scanner on airport are film safe as far as i know...

*i saw on the web that film has been scanned will show some curve or effect (forgot the URL)..
but it's not a big deal.., almost every 2-3 month i travel with plane and no issues with my result..
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Old 03-31-2012   #21
DSkjaeve
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A lot of people seem to think that this thread is about bringing film on planes.

I understand it that it's about actually shipping the film via mail, and what potential x-ray damage will occur (if any).
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Old 03-31-2012   #22
EdwardKaraa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSkjaeve View Post
A lot of people seem to think that this thread is about bringing film on planes.

I understand it that it's about actually shipping the film via mail, and what potential x-ray damage will occur (if any).
It's the same thing. Parcels get scanned exactly like checked in luggage.
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Old 03-31-2012   #23
DSkjaeve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa

It's the same thing. Parcels get scanned exactly like checked in luggage.
Thank you! After two days of mailing postal offices and reading threads it's nice to get an answer.

I've travelled plenty through x-ray machines and haven't noticed anything so far so I will feel more safe shipping them now.
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Old 03-31-2012   #24
Freakscene
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njos View Post
nowadays most x-ray / scanner on airport are film safe as far as i know...
Carry-on x-ray scanners are film safe, but checked luggage is selectively scanned using high intensity scanners like the CTX5000 which will definitely ruin photographic film of all speeds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
It's the same thing. Parcels get scanned exactly like checked in luggage.
It depends on where you live and on how the film gets shipped. Freestyle, for instance, have told me the shipper they use does not x-ray any cargo.

Marty
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Old 03-31-2012   #25
bugmenot
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I doubt that any regular XRay scanning takes place by USPS and they don't want to publicly state that. They handle hundreds of millions of pieces of mail per day. Who would be monitoring the scans? They'd need millions of people just to do that and I doubt computers could do it.
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Old 03-31-2012   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugmenot View Post
I doubt that any regular XRay scanning takes place by USPS and they don't want to publicly state that. They handle hundreds of millions of pieces of mail per day. Who would be monitoring the scans? They'd need millions of people just to do that and I doubt computers could do it.
The point of the CTX5000 and other scanners like it is that the scans are automated. Density pattern image recognition is used to identify a range of objects of interest. I agree that the approach is probably to scan a selection of mail, but it doesn't need a person except to confirm a package identified as of concern, but even so, if anything is scanned why take a crap shoot with film that costs you money and will be used to capture valuable images?

Marty
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Old 03-31-2012   #27
jayavant
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I've travelled extensively with up to ISO1600 film exposed and unexposed, always in my hand luggage but in some cases. X-rayed many many times and never noticed any problems. Likewise with film that I order from abroad.
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Old 03-31-2012   #28
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I've two 100ft canisters that showed no visible problems. But when i contact print them, the clear base had subtle but clearly exposed. It wasn't pure black. It still prints alright, but it's there. If u are just scanning film, you will not see the difference.
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Old 03-31-2012   #29
EdwardKaraa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post

It depends on where you live and on how the film gets shipped. Freestyle, for instance, have told me the shipper they use does not x-ray any cargo.

Marty
I think Freestyle may be probably lying, they may have even devised this simple answer/lie rather than to say it depends or we're not sure, which will provoke further questions. All international mail gets scanned, outbound and inbound, at every country in the world.
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Old 03-31-2012   #30
bruce1007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
Since the X-ray effect on film is accumulative, it makes sense to reduce the frequency of this exposure as much as possible. This said, I have travelled extensively in the past (when X-ray scans were probably stronger) with both exposed and unexposed film with no noticeable image deterioration.
I agree with EdwardKaraa, the radiation is accumulative, maybe my film is went through the X-ray, but one or two times, so the effect is not visible.
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Old 03-31-2012   #31
bruce1007
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Is there a formula for calculating the film exposure intensity by the X-ray for one time, ie how much cargo X-ray radiation power can visibly effect the film depending on different ISO?
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Old 03-31-2012   #32
EdwardKaraa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce1007 View Post
Is there a formula for calculating the film exposure intensity by the X-ray for one time, ie how much cargo X-ray radiation power can visibly effect the film depending on different ISO?
I'm sure there is a formula, but it must depend on the film ISO, and the scanner intensity and the length of exposure. I don't think it would be possible to know the last 2 elements.
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Dose
Old 04-01-2012   #33
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Dose

Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce1007 View Post
Is there a formula for calculating the film exposure intensity by the X-ray for one time, ie how much cargo X-ray radiation power can visibly effect the film depending on different ISO?
It's not a formula, it's about dose or intensity of radiation. Because different scanners use different combinations of intensity, it's hard to be specific.

Kodak's information here: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/servi.../tib5201.shtml
is the best available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardKaraa View Post
I think Freestyle may be probably lying, they may have even devised this simple answer/lie rather than to say it depends or we're not sure, which will provoke further questions. All international mail gets scanned, outbound and inbound, at every country in the world.
My packages from Freestyle have always been hand inspected (they come with a label stating this), and when I have used the same shipper from the US with an xray logger in it it's been clear that the packages have not been xrayed. But again, maybe I've been lucky.

Marty
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Old 04-02-2012   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freakscene View Post
The point of the CTX5000 and other scanners like it is that the scans are automated. Density pattern image recognition is used to identify a range of objects of interest. I agree that the approach is probably to scan a selection of mail, but it doesn't need a person except to confirm a package identified as of concern, but even so, if anything is scanned why take a crap shoot with film that costs you money and will be used to capture valuable images?

Marty
You'll have to show me compelling evidence that the USPS uses scanners like this or any other type of XRay device to routinely scan mail to detect contents. I worked for the USPS and the idea that this is being done is completely unrealistic to me.

It's true that an individual parcel which has become suspect due to certain suspicious factors could be scanned by postal inspectors to detect possible explosives, etc but a routine scanning of all mail is just unreal given the volume of mail that moves through the system.
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Old 04-02-2012   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugmenot View Post
You'll have to show me compelling evidence that the USPS uses scanners like this or any other type of XRay device to routinely scan mail to detect contents.
I'm not American - I have no idea about USPS. About 12% of packages sent via Australia Post get scanned this way. An unknown proportion (it's a security issue) get scanned the same way on entry to Australia. Another unknown perceptage are hand inspected at the border, but every package I've received from Freestyle has been opened and checked by quarantine and customs.

Marty
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