M8 Problems Poll

[reinierv]

come to think of it....

there was the economist some years ago who argued a similar way. Stop checking the books of companies and let them fraudate as much as they can. As in that case everybody will do so, the figures are perfectly usable again...

Now who was this guy...anyone remember by chance


(btw I'm not into accounting or other similar hororjob )

[BillP]

Originally Posted by reinierv

Yes Bill,
The whole world consists of a large bunch of lies, hold together by a bundle of mud for throwing purposes

You know what they say: there are lies, damn lies and statistics. We just thought of a methode for balancing some income vs costs in such a way it will increase the profit percentage, rather then descrease it...it are still the same numbers, correctly represented, just interpretted in a different way. Just for the point...

Now if you would hold the same poll on the web for a Nikon D300....what results would you get??? Remember you will always get the idiots voting positive or negative without knowing what they are talking about, just for the vote or to bring a product in discredit or because have wet dreams of owning one . You will have the same idiots for the D700, 5DmII, D60, 450D, etc etc etc. For a Nikon you will get the Canon addits voting negative and the Nikonians wo send there camera in for repair 3 times stating it is a perfect machine...and vice versa.

So in the end the figures are, fraudulant as they are, comparable

taking it all thogether, I still think 30% is way. way up...

Reinier, you miss the point.

The figures are completely meaningless. This is a voluntary, self-selecting, unmoderated poll, in an unrepresentative part of the internet. It is worse than useless and drawing any conclusion whatsoever from it is nonsense. It reminds me of the 1970s when the Tory party thought they would win the election because their telephone polls told them so. They did not account for the fact that Tory voters tended to be better off than Labour voters and more inclined to have a telephone at home.

Internet fora are not representative of the views or experiences of the world at large. This site alone claims to have - what - more than 25000 registered members and a whopping 131 have voted in this poll. Satisfied customers tend not to make a big fuss about their satisfaction, but dissatisfied customers do. Funny that.

It's meaningless. Accept it in good grace and move on. Enjoy your new M8 and don't let your experience be tainted by bitterness.

Regards,

Bill

[reinierv]

Bill, when living in England as you do you must be able to understand the cynical humor I put in...

Don't take things too seriously, I certainly don't


And BTW I'm seldom bitter...Pissed of I'm certainly every now and then, and with current attitude of major companies in general towards their customers (I also had a big argument with Nikon on the battery clips in the DB200 which were known to be faulty in the first batches, but they failed to admit that officially) that happens with some regularity.

But I keep a frim grip on reallity, at least the reallity as I see it

[Sparrow]

30% of accidents are caused by drunk drivers sooo..... the majority of accidents, 70%, are caused by sober drivers

Clearly its irresponsible to drive without having had a drink………….I love statistics, 80% are made up on the spot you know

[LeicaMSeattle]

A bit of frustration. I just shipped my M8 back to Leica because of fluorescing pixels showing up in a consistent pattern in my images as red, blue, and green dots through out the lower half of the horizontal frame.

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by jaapv

The original text is a lot more careful than the Google translation. It does not say " there will be a..." but "there is supposed to be.." which sounds a considerably different. Nor does it say " Thus far....innovations" That translates better as: " As far as known up till now the developers are fiddling primarily with three innovations. On one hand there is supposed to be an M9 rangefindercamera with full-frame sensor. That makes for maximum image quality. Further they are working on a R10 DSLR with an extra large chip and autofocus, a complicated development, especially the shutter and the lenses. And finally there is the possiblity that some kind of " small" digital M should come on the market." .

Seems like they did this in some ways... R10 became S2, M9 is M9, small M became X1.

[bottley1]

Originally Posted by BillP

I don't believe this.

There used to be an advertising slogan in the UK that ran "8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas". This was deemed to be misleading advertising so had to be changed to "8 out of 10 cats who expressed a preference prefer Whiskas".

Or to put it another way, statistics "prove" that only sick people travel in ambulances, so if you don't travel in an ambulance you won't get sick.

This poll no more "proves" that 70% of M8s are trouble free than it "proves" that 30% have had difficulties. What it does prove is that there are an awful lot of gullible people out there who will believe any old drivel they are told just because it is on the internet. Base a buying decision on this nonsense and you must be in need of medical assistance.

Does anybody really, truly believe that this is a representative and reliable sample?

Good grief on a stick.

Regards,

Bill

I didn't say it was a representative sample, or that I agreed with the mechanism of the poll, all I was implying was that 70% is a number on the positive side. The M8 has been a learning curve for leica, at the customers expense. I own an M9 also, which, although a great improvement over the M8, is still not perfect, reliability wise.

[ruslan]

Bad result actually, more than 30% with problems (my M8 was repaired once by warranty), for pro grade tool is unacceptable.

[hteasley]

Originally Posted by ruslan

Bad result actually, more than 30% with problems (my M8 was repaired once by warranty), for pro grade tool is unacceptable.

Welcome to Small Sample Size Theatre. And, if there's something I have noticed about many folks here, is that they seem to like sending cameras in for repair, CLA, what-have-you. You're dealing with a significant case of selection bias, with where this poll was posted.

[Viktor Sebastian]

Both my m8s are off to solms soon. Scroll wheel has stopped working on one and the other has the pixel line issue.

Grrrr.

[bobbyrab]

This may not be a 100% reliable statistical survey, but it does give some indications of the M8's problems. in fact I would imagine that the robust support of those who love their M8's would negate the tendency for people to voice their complaints more than their praise, and is probably reasonably accurate. I was interested to see the results as having bought and sold an M8 [didn't like the colours], I've recently thought about buying one again, largely due to my lab's patchy C41 process of late. I think as they're developing film less often, it affects the machines consistency. Whatever the cause, my labs scans have been poor of late, and for commercial jobs I don't have time for developing and scanning my own. So the next thought is there's no point in having four m lenses sitting in a cupboard, what about an M8? Even if the results of the poll are inaccurate it still seems a risky proposition now they'll mostly be out of warranty. So I wonder, looking at a worse case scenario, what is the largest repair bill you could be hit with from Solms, assuming a camera developed a single problem, say having to have the sensor replaced. Any ideas anyone?

[Gabriel M.A.]

I put a battery in my M8 and it wouldn't start. After some intertoobes flaming, I realized I hadn't recharged the battery, but I didn't follow-up to say it was my fault.

:: ducks ::

[Cyriljay]

Originally Posted by Avotius

oh to hell with it, im interested as a prospective buyer in seeing some things other then "oh my f'ing m8 has so many problems" this or that, bring on the poll, there are enough trolls around anyway.

I agree too.
.. and I had bought a M8 on excellent conditions and with in few hours of buying and when i was at home the camera's shutter got jammed and had to send to Solms to repair. When it came back after one year and two months The shutter broked in to pieces again. So it was dead and i had to pay
£800. to upgrade it into slower speedy new shutter . It works fine now and more precisely better than the old M8. So this is my experience and I am not trying to defend Leica exaggerate some thing this can help some one to avoid being frustrated facing something like this situation.

[Teuthida]

Never had a problem. Still my favorite digital camera. Far better user than my X100, which just sits on the shelf.

[raid]

I am new to the M8. So far so good, other than a damaged battery charger. I spent $35 on a repacement charger by Annsman.

[peterm1]

I have read a lot of internet forum threads complaining about the rangfinder becoming inaccurate. I recently had this problem when mine developed the issue. And it was not just a little off it was waaaaaaaay off - like 10 inches behind the subject with all lenses I tested at 3 metres.

I made some careful experiments with a distance scale marked on a board and then took shots at set distances using both the rangefinder and lens scales alternately. Half a dozen lenses - all off by a similar amount.

I took my unit to a local guy who seems to have adjusted it back to close to where it should be - at least its usable although I am still not sure its spot on. This guy who has been around for 40 years and is well experienced in adjusting M cameras says he can't understand it as M film cameras appear not to have the issue unless dropped or something and the digital rangefinder mechanics appear to be the same. Mine has been treated like a baby.

The blogger in this blog says that rangefinder zero drifting off the mark is common with M8s. (Great blog incidentally)

http://blog.mingthein.com/?s=leica+m8

[Scheelings]

Originally Posted by palker

Like any statistic .. can be read any which way you want ..

Not really. I don't think everyone intuitively realizes that polling for whether they had problems with their m8 in a sub-forum for m8 problems is likely to be heavily skewed as a higher percentage of people in such a forum have got a problem!

I agree with Jaap