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View Poll Results: Do you develop your own BW?
Yes I do. 585 94.05%
No I don't. 8 1.29%
I will one day, I promise. 29 4.66%
I tried it and won't do it again. 0 0%
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Old 03-16-2012   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasw_
This is a very good old thread, thanks for resurrecting it.

First measure to take is to throw away any type of squeegee or cloth wiping device; there's no need to introduce an unnecessary physical force to your negs. Now, bear in mind, I live in an area with tap water that will leave terrible marks after drying. These are the steps I used to eliminate them as much as possible:

1. do my LFN final rinse in distilled or filtered water

2. keeping the film on the spool, use a lettuce/salad spinner to get most of the residual rinsing water off of my negs before hanging them to dry; i use a counter-balancing technique of four spools held in place by rubber elastics

3. use a drying cabinet, hanging the negs at a bit of a slant

I have eliminated drying marks or scratching with these measures.
That salad spinner idea is a great one! I've thought of blowing a hair dryer at full force, on cool, through the plastic reel after the requisite shake. Might try tomorrow for the heck of it.
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Old 03-16-2012   #82
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Originally Posted by kdemas

That salad spinner idea is a great one! I've thought of blowing a hair dryer at full force, on cool, through the plastic reel after the requisite shake. Might try tomorrow for the heck of it.
PS- Air for just a few seconds to blow off the excess water remnants.
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Old 03-17-2012   #83
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I don't do any of this stuff. I get water marks. I have yet to see them show up on a scan, or print in the darkroom/inkjet (up to 16x20).
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Old 04-22-2012   #84
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Distilled water does the trick for me. My negatives have never been cleaner since I started using it.
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Old 05-30-2012   #85
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No squeegee for me as well. I just use my fingers to run softly thru the film. I also use 1-2 small drop of Joy liquid dish washing soap and make sure you don't create suds or make it soapy.
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Old 05-30-2012   #86
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The trick with the final washing water is to have most capillary action so that water will drain off of the surface gradually, smoothly as a continuously thinning film without leaving drops behind. A few drops of Photoflo or one spoonful of alcohol in the final washing can help; wipe off with wet fingers in one stroke down. In case of drop stains when dried, gently wipe with isopropyl alcohol.
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Old 05-30-2012   #87
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I've said it before and I'll say it again: Photo Wipes (now known as Tidi Wipes or KayPees). I've used these for all roll films since 1982 and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had water marks or dust. This is more than 5000 rolls of 120 and 35mm film. I am a pig, my studio is always dusty, with cat and dog hair, dust and etc. Until this past summer I never had a drying space with a door on it. No need to ever deal with water marks or stuck on dust again.

Sprint End-Run mixed with distilled water as per the bottle instructions, I take the reel out of the solution, let it drip a moment, give it a gentle shake, pull the film off the reel, wipe once in a single motion with a half a Wipe (folded in half to make a 1" x 6" or so wad, then again around the film) held between index and middle fingers, clip the empty cassette (with the roll number with 35mm) or a wooden clothes pin to one end, a laundry hook/clothespin to the other end and hang 'em to dry. They dry faster, and completely mark & dust free. I was taught this method by Paul Krot who founded Sprint in 1982 and have never had troubles with any post processing defects on my films other than cutting them incorrectly.

I've lately been using Agfa Sistan as well, and mixing it per directions with distilled water, then adding the End Run stock to this as if it was water. I like End Run for the Anti-Static properties.

Anyone plagued by water marks can eliminate them pretty much forever by using this method.
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Old 05-30-2012   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshinkaw View Post
Try and do a final rinse in distilled water, just a simple pass-thru. Then dilute your wetting agent in distilled water. Your tap water probably has a high solids content.

-Paul
This is also what I do, in addition to using a wetting agent. The tap water where I live has a fairly high mineral content. I've had no problems with drying marks, though, since I started using distilled water for the final wash and also for the wetting agent.
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Old 05-30-2012   #89
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Quote:
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This is also what I do, in addition to using a wetting agent. The tap water where I live has a fairly high mineral content. I've had no problems with drying marks, though, since I started using distilled water for the final wash and also for the wetting agent.
Same. I only have problems with drying marks when I'm lazy and don't get distilled water for final rinse (with photo flo). I do squeegee the film between two fingers before hanging to dry and it does help, but distilled water is the best way to go.
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Old 07-06-2012   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingley View Post
This is also what I do, in addition to using a wetting agent. The tap water where I live has a fairly high mineral content. I've had no problems with drying marks, though, since I started using distilled water for the final wash and also for the wetting agent.
I will remember to do this method with distilled water for the final wash next time.

Thankyou for the advice!
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Old 07-06-2012   #91
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I use a wetting agent and distilled water. Works every time.
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Old 07-06-2012   #92
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I've found out that as long as you do the last wash with distilled water there is no need for Photo-Flo or any other chemicals.
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My method...
Old 09-13-2012   #93
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My method...

I have a simple nonconventional method that nobody seems to agree with (probably because it's too easy...), but I get drying mark-free negatives consistently, even with the superhard Berlin tap water that I use for mixing my chemicals and for the rinses.. That is:

I don't use squeegees, sponges, nor do I wipe the film with anything.

I don't use wetting agens, HCA's, photo-flo, agepon... Just developer, stop bath, fixer, and:

After fixing, I rinse the film under running water for 10-13 minutes. Then, I pour in distilled water, rotate the film spirals a few times and let it be for a minute. Then I hang the films to dry in the bathroom - not in any special way, just top to bottom with a weight at the bottom. That's it. I reuse one liter of distilled water for 10-15 rolls of film and it costs me 1,45 euro per 5 liters, so it's not such a big cost.

This method is very unpopular and nobody ever suggests it, yet I find it works perfectly for me and is the simplest method I've ever heard of.
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Old 09-13-2012   #94
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I also had probelms with drying marks and also recently found distilled water with a tiny drop of photoflow for the final rinse has made a big difference for the better.
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Old 09-13-2012   #95
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I was having good results with a final rinse of distilled water.

Then I ran out of distilled water and just used tap water. I started getting water spots.

So I bought more distilled for my final rinse. I got worse water spots than ever before!

The only thing that's changed is my brand of water. Is it possible that all "distilled" water is not equal? I'm going back to the old one next time to test this theory. Also I have some Photo Flo on the way.
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Old 09-14-2012   #96
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It could be there are quality differences. What I've used is not technically really 100% pure distilled water, but battery water meant for things like car batteries and for using in steam irons etc. I've used about 3 different brands and all of them have worked fine so far.

If you had this problem only once, maybe it's actually something that happened during the development phase? I had a period where all my films had nasty "blotches" in them and I finally figured it's because the quality of the tap water had changed due to a difficult winter - I even contacted the waterworks and they said the tap water was harder and more alkaline than usually during that period. So in that case I started to mix my developer into distilled water, and problem gone. I no longer live in that area and usually use tap water for the developer again..
The fixer doesn't appear to be so sensitive to water quality..
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Old 10-24-2012   #97
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I decided to buy some Photo Flo because I happened to be buying printing paper at the photo store. Never realised it was so cheap, $6.50 for a 300-500ml sized bottle. I don't think I'll ever finish that bottle, the last roll I developed used about a teaspoon and it was already way too much!

Also not a single drying mark on that roll, and I didn't even bother to squeegee the negs with my fingers.
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Old 11-15-2012   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pshinkaw View Post
Try and do a final rinse in distilled water, just a simple pass-thru. Then dilute your wetting agent in distilled water. Your tap water probably has a high solids content.

-Paul
I'll second that. If I follow that advice I never have a problem - if I don't, I get drying marks about 50% of the time.
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Old 11-15-2012   #99
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Well I guess 7th it ;-) Just read the rest of the comments. I just use it for the final Photo-Flo and it works perfectly. For lesser quality water, try the final rinse also as suggested.
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Yep
Old 01-24-2013   #100
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Yep

I agree. A little detergent in the final rinse then hang somewhere comfortable ( I use the shower recess) for a slow dry...no marks.
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Old 02-28-2013   #101
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I had drying marks even after using distilled water and photo-flo and only got rid of it after adding a little alcohol. (It's 96% ethylalcohol, I think.)
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Old 02-28-2013   #102
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Solids in the water cause marks. As suggested distilled water. Kodak Photoflow can be used at 1:200 with my softened tap water. If you do not use enough, the water will not sheet off. So depending on water quality, vary the dilution.

It helps to lay the reel on its side after final rinse with wetting agent for up to 5 min. Cover with inverted dry tank. Put sky up, ground down. This way water only needs to travel 30 mm. Tap to shake off drips, then hang.

Keep squeegees, sponges, cloths, fingers, and anything else you can dream up away from the film. None is really ever clean including your fingers, and even if they were, you risk grabbing a piece of debris and scratching the film..
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Old 02-28-2013   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g0tr00t View Post
Ok, here I go. I use Photo-flo for a wash. BUT, for my final rinse, I do this.

I put 1 drop of dishwashing liquid in my canister and fill it with water. I remove all the suds and drop my film on the rolls in there as a the final, final wash. I swish for 30 seconds, remove, shake the rolls, remove neg's then squeege with my fingers. 30 rolls going and NO marks!

I learned this trick from an old pro who has been developing since the 50's....
Just did that last night with two rolls of Minox subminiature negatives. They dried perfectly with no mineral stains ... very hard water in our area. It did a better job than Edwal's wetting agent did.
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Old 02-28-2013   #104
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Sprint's End Run is my current preferred choice, mixed with Sistan and distilled water and (broken record here I know, but I can count on one hand the times I've had ANY issues with dust or water marks on my films) a wipe with a Photo Wipe. The End Run comes in a 1L bottle which lasts forever- or nearly so, I'm still in my first bottle in 15 years and I run a LOT of film.
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Old 03-01-2013   #105
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Great thread full of good suggestions. I have recently modified my method of drying film.
Final wash in Tetenal Mirasol. Shake water off film whilst still in the spiral quite vigorously. Hang up to dry (no squeegeeing). I now get the best results I have ever had. As a final note I also used to squeegee but it is too hit and miss with a risk of scratching.
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Old 10-25-2013   #106
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Oh yes Iīve got water marks dust and everything I donīt want.
But I know where my mistakes on this first film since over 30 years have been! I should wash it with distilled water and steam the bath to get the dust problem away. Also made some mistakes with filling my Paterson daylight can - so the next film can just be better!
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Old 10-29-2013   #107
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Reading this thread makes me think my drying marks are from too much wetting agent. I'll have to rethink, and maybe actually measure it, rather than being a little slap-happy with the last step.
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diy washing/ drying aid
Old 11-05-2013   #108
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diy washing/ drying aid

I got an idea from this clip

http://www.google.ro/url?sa=t&rct=j&...55980276,d.Yms

and made from the cover of a bulk cd box that i turned upside-down and made 4 holes at the bottom a nice film washing device. Let tap watter flow and less stains for me. No photo flo or squeege.

Afterwards, i dry the film onto the reel that is inserted into another cd bulk in a centrifugal fast movement. At the bottom the reel lies in contact with a absorbant kicthen wipe cloth (3m and the like).The box is hanging with a rope from the central axis of the box. Just be careful not to hurt your finger while spinning the box/rope. Autdoors is safest.

It helped me.
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Old 11-21-2013   #109
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Wipe with nothing. Sooner or later the debris you are trying to remove will catch and leave a scratch. Does not mater how clean it is or even if perfectly surgical clean.

If you must, use distilled or deionized water. Photoflow 1:200 to 1:400 as works for you. Soak for a full minute with agitation.

Remove reel , tap on a thin towel on counter top or just let it sit and drain 3 minuter, then a few light taps to dislodge water where surface tension has kept it along one edge.

Hang, then squirt some final wash rinse at the top, then move down 9", another squirt, and down, squirt, etc. Now do other side starting at top. My squirt tool is a 1 ml transfer pipette. No need to flood it at this point.




Return in 3 hours with slide cutter or scissors. Put away so it remains clean so you do not need to figure how to clean it later.

Best of course is a filtered, heated drying cabinet. A large expensive luxury few can use.

My darkroom has hepa air and 3 micron water filters to avoid contamination.

Hospital clean is the secret, not after the fact treatments when damage is done.

Short of setting up a real lab with film developing machinery, this is the best I have ever been able to do.
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Old 11-23-2013   #110
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I voted "Yes I do" and sometimes I get drying marks. Embrace them!
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Old 11-23-2013   #111
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A minor thing is that the marks can be from
wetting agent, left on reels..
It affects developer and there are marks..
Wash reels very well, hot water,
use vinegar to clear off old soap.
I am not sure how one cleans plastic reels.
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Old 11-23-2013   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leicapixie View Post
A minor thing is that the marks can be from
wetting agent, left on reels..
It affects developer and there are marks..
Wash reels very well, hot water,
use vinegar to clear off old soap.
I am not sure how one cleans plastic reels.
This is why steel reels rule !
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Old 11-24-2013   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leicapixie View Post
A minor thing is that the marks can be from
wetting agent, left on reels..
It affects developer and there are marks..
Wash reels very well, hot water,
use vinegar to clear off old soap.
I am not sure how one cleans plastic reels.
A heavy duty toothbrush. I agree that steel reels clean - and load - faster. But I have worked in public darkrooms where they have only plastic reels. It's good to know how to use both kinds.
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Old 11-25-2013   #114
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Yes I do.
To be honest, I'm like on an inverse learning curve: The first rolls I ever developed (a couple of years ago) turned out very well. Since then, i have dealt with most every problem that can occur in film developing.
Right now I'm trying to get rid of some sort of banding in dense areas of the negative as well as drying marks and scratches. Lots of usefull hints in this thread.
Note to self: have to clean my tanks and reels and use less Mirasol!!!

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Old 11-25-2013   #115
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I used to get lots of water marks even after using photo-flo, what I used to do was rinsing the film with tap water then hanging the film in the basement for a couple of hours.
After buying a small squeegee from The Camera Store, I haven't got any water mark anymore.
One of the best $15 investment I've ever done
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Old 11-26-2013   #116
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I'm using Driwel by Fujifilm, as instructed in this thread. It's awesome.
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Old 11-26-2013   #117
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Can someone help me identify a waterspot? It's strange because it isn't calcium buildup or anything like that. It looks more like an indention of the film... like the film had something bend it inward in that spot. To illustrate I took this photo of it.

There are two white lights behind it. The lower left light has a little blob at the very bottom. I believe this is a watermark but am not entirely sure...
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Old 11-26-2013   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berci View Post
Hi Everyone out there,

I develop my own bw pictures, in my small tank kitchen sink type photo lab, everything is fine apart from the occasional drying marks on the negative. I even use a photo flo like thing (Jessops wetting agent) but that does not help either.

The most annoying thing is that sometimes it's ok, sometimes not.

Any idea?

Many thanks and happy shooting,

Berci
I submerge my developed B&W film in a tank full of a wetting agent (Kodak's Photo Flo) for one minute - it actually ends up being longer as I develop four rolls at once - and then squeegee the film using a CLEAN film squeegee that looks like a pair of tongs with a double set of windshield wiper blades in the inside of the tongs.

As long as your squeegee blades are in good condition (not damaged) and are CLEAN (rinse them in running water to make sure there are no dust particles on them to scratch your negatives), you shouldn't have any scratches from the squeegee on your negs - or any water marks once the negs are dry.

Some people dislike squeegees, claiming they will scratch your negatives. I have used this procedure for 15+ years on tons of negatives and chromes (35mm and 120) and have never had a problem with scratched negatives or chromes as a result of using a film squeegee.

Hope this helps...
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Old 11-26-2013   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noisycheese View Post
I submerge my developed B&W film in a tank full of a wetting agent (Kodak's Photo Flo) for one minute - it actually ends up being longer as I develop four rolls at once - and then squeegee the film using a CLEAN film squeegee that looks like a pair of tongs with a double set of windshield wiper blades in the inside of the tongs.

As long as your squeegee blades are in good condition (not damaged) and are CLEAN (rinse them in running water to make sure there are no dust particles on them to scratch your negatives), you shouldn't have any scratches from the squeegee on your negs - or any water marks once the negs are dry.

Some people dislike squeegees, claiming they will scratch your negatives. I have used this procedure for 15+ years on tons of negatives and chromes (35mm and 120) and have never had a problem with scratched negatives or chromes as a result of using a film squeegee.

Hope this helps...
Or you can take the reel with the film still on it, and rap it against the palm of your hand a few times to knock the wetting agent off, then just hang them to dry. I used to squeegee, but all it took was one scratch on what would have been my Pulitzer picture to put me off the practice forever.
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Old 12-04-2013   #120
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Not sure if anyone has mentioned this. I used to use pec pad to clean CMOS sensor of my DSLR as well as lens. So I wondered why cannot I use it to wipe off the drying marks on the films? Guess what? I did it yesterday on a roll with lots of drying marks. The result is perfect. No drying marks, no scratches. I did it today on a different roll. Same result. I wrap the pec pad on both side of the film and purposely pressed hard while pulling the film through the pec pad. No scratches at all. Even dusts were removed as well.
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