More tragedy at Olympus

[N. Bruce Nelson]

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/0...lobalCoverage2

Tsutomu Omori, 49, who was head of Olympus's medical equipment business in India, found dead by suicide.

[kshapero]

Ugh, this is a drag.

[Mackinaw]

So sad and such a waste. This Olympus debacle just keeps getting worse and worse.

Jim B.

[semilog]

What Jim said. Terrible sadness.

[nighstar]

:/ geez.....

[Contarama]

This is not a tragedy. This is about honor. Honor him for he was brave...he performed harakiri. If more high power executives who are reaming the world with no grease would be even half as honorable as this guy the world would be better...

[dreilly]

I don't know...if honor is so important, then why not...just be honorable? Kinda a copout to be all corrupt and then be like, I have to be honorable, where's my sword? Takes a different kind of courage to try to live each day with a little of your integrity intact.

[semilog]

Originally Posted by Contarama

This is not a tragedy. This is about honor. Honor him for he was brave...he performed harakiri. If more high power executives who are reaming the world with no grease would be even half as honorable as this guy the world would be better...

Honor is not incompatible with tragedy or sorrow.

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by Contarama

This is not a tragedy. This is about honor. Honor him for he was brave...he performed harakiri. If more high power executives who are reaming the world with no grease would be even half as honorable as this guy the world would be better...

Ahhh, no he didn't.

hara > stomach
kiri > cut

He hung himself.

[Maiku]

I think it hard for most of us to understand that

1. The executives at Olympus did what the did initially to protect the company. They did not do it to profiteer. I think they genuinely thought they were doing the best for the company. They were trying to save face. They thought they were being HONORABLE. I think they were totally wrong, but understand. They need to be punished.

2. Omori-san`s suicide is completely HONORABLE act in Japan. Our western sense of suicide is completely counter to the Japanese sense of it. You may think it weak and the easy way out, but the Japanese see it an ultimate apology. You cannot say sorry to the people you hurt more than by taking your life. Maybe more suicides will be in offing in the near future.

Westerners had better start to learn that they are different methods of business practices in the world based on culture. Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter. What is behind it is the real question.

[nikon_sam]

Originally Posted by Contarama

This is not a tragedy. This is about honor. Honor him for he was brave...he performed harakiri. If more high power executives who are reaming the world with no grease would be even half as honorable as this guy the world would be better...

Honor comes by doing the right thing in the first not by killing yourself after you've been caught...

Originally Posted by dreilly

I don't know...if honor is so important, then why not...just be honorable? Kinda a copout to be all corrupt and then be like, I have to be honorable, where's my sword? Takes a different kind of courage to try to live each day with a little of your integrity intact.

I agree...^^^

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by Contarama

This is not a tragedy. This is about honor. Honor him for he was brave...he performed harakiri. If more high power executives who are reaming the world with no grease would be even half as honorable as this guy the world would be better...

Don't go James Clavell over this guy. Chances are that if you end up hanging yourself in a park with a note saying "I am sorry for bothering you", you haven't been all that honorable after all.

[jan normandale]

Personally I think it takes more guts to start repairing the damage and righting the wrongs. I feel badly for his family.

[nighstar]

Originally Posted by Maiku

I think it hard for most of us to understand that

1. The executives at Olympus did what the did initially to protect the company. They did not do it to profiteer. I think they genuinely thought they were doing the best for the company. They were trying to save face. They thought they were being HONORABLE. I think they were totally wrong, but understand. They need to be punished.

2. Omori-san`s suicide is completely HONORABLE act in Japan. Our western sense of suicide is completely counter to the Japanese sense of it. You may think it weak and the easy way out, but the Japanese see it an ultimate apology. You cannot say sorry to the people you hurt more than by taking your life. Maybe more suicides will be in offing in the near future.

Westerners had better start to learn that they are different methods of business practices in the world based on culture. Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter. What is behind it is the real question.

from an outsider's (especially western) POV, this is very hard to swallow, sadly.... i'm not saying i don't understand what you're saying. i lived in Japan for a few years and know exactly what you are talking about from experience. but had i not lived in Japan and seen it for myself, i probably wouldn't get this either.

...and even if i do get it, i still don't like it...

[emasterphoto]

Originally Posted by Maiku

Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter.

It's because they're greedy and could care less. You don't make things like counterfit toothpaste with poisons like Melamine in them and then sell them to your own people, for any other reason. You don't put cheaper lead paint on children's toys when it's well know what the health consequences can be (and when you've got regulations controlling such actions in place), for any other reason. When the whole world economy has determined the importance of copyright considerations, yet the Chinese still believe patent doesn't matter, it's because they're greedy and could care less.

And as for Omori-san's suicide, it's very tragic, but far from honorable. I worked at a major coporation and lived over there for many years, and my wife is native Japanese from Hokkaido. Her opinion of these kinds of suicides is that they're far from anything honorable; that they're simply a way to avoid having to take the responsibility for their own actions; a way to avoid having to answer to the people that they injured as a result of their actions. She feels that if they want to be honorable then should stand up and take the punishment for their crimes as well as work to make amends and repair the damage and trust. She is not the only Japanese native I've met who feels this way.

These guys knew what they were doing was wrong. It wasn't to save face it was to keep from getting caught, pure and simple, and they worked very hard at it. This is not the first time this kind of thing has happened there, and won't be the last because unfortunately it's a big problem within their corporate culture, due largely to seniority, authority, and the hierarchical structure of their companies in general.

Look at what happened with Tokyo Electric and all the commotion around Fukushima and how much they've covered up or tried to hide from the public. My wife said it's nothing surprising at all, and likely what'll happen is that in 10-15 years when people start getting sick with "Fukushima Syndrome" or some such, all of the big wigs from today will conveniently have already retired and become essentially immune from any repercussions based on their irresponsibilty and inaction at the time of and leading up to the tragedy itself.

Now, you may disagree; that's fine. But my personal experience, a degree in Japanese sociology, and my in-home cultural advisor, tells me otherwise. Suicide is just as troublesome and tragic to the Japanese as any other people these days, and the corporate corruption that leads to event like the recent Olympus debacle is likewise as well.

[nighstar]

Originally Posted by emasterphoto

Suicide is just as troublesome and tragic to the Japanese as any other people these days...

i agree, now more than ever the view on suicide in Japan is closer to what it is in western countries (ie. it's far from honorable). however, suicide is still a more widely accepted thing in Japan than it is in western countries. that's a sad fact. and it is that sad fact that probably lead to Omori-san's choice of escape, in my humble opinion.

i think that what Maiku said holds true, but so does what you have said. i think that both of your stances on the matter reflects upon the divide within Japan itself on the matter.

[Araakii]

Originally Posted by Contarama

This is not a tragedy. This is about honor. Honor him for he was brave...he performed harakiri. If more high power executives who are reaming the world with no grease would be even half as honorable as this guy the world would be better...

Exactly. The Japanese have dignity and shame, unlike their American counterparts.

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by Maiku

2. Omori-san`s suicide is completely HONORABLE act in Japan. Our western sense of suicide is completely counter to the Japanese sense of it. You may think it weak and the easy way out, but the Japanese see it an ultimate apology. You cannot say sorry to the people you hurt more than by taking your life. Maybe more suicides will be in offing in the near future.

That's maybe how the subject sees it, but at some point saying "sorry" is not the point. I have my doubts about whether the rest of society will then view it as the ultimate whitewashing.

[Araakii]

Originally Posted by emasterphoto

It's because they're greedy and could care less. You don't make things like counterfit toothpaste with poisons like Melamine in them and then sell them to your own people, for any other reason. You don't put cheaper lead paint on children's toys when it's well know what the health consequences can be (and when you've got regulations controlling such actions in place), for any other reason. When the whole world economy has determined the importance of copyright considerations, yet the Chinese still believe patent doesn't matter, it's because they're greedy and could care less.

The people who make contaminated food are greedy no doubt, but the majority of Chinese buy counterfeit simply because they cannot afford the luxury that an average American does. You might argue that not everyone needs a luxurious life, but this is precisely the principle that America preaches and tries to spread to the rest of the world.

When it comes to exploitation, American corporations like Apple are just as greedy and they can't care less. But many Americans love Apple, so in a way they are also greedy and can't care less.

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by Araakii

The people who make contaminated food are greedy no doubt, but the majority of Chinese buy counterfeit simply because they cannot afford the luxury that an average American does. You might argue that not everyone needs a luxurious life, but this is precisely the principle that America preaches and tries to spread to the rest of the world.

When it comes to exploitation, American corporations like Apple are just as greedy and they can't care less. But many Americans love Apple, so in a way they are also greedy and can't care less.

The existence of greedy people somewhere else on the planet seems beside the point, the question being "Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things". Note also: "make", not "buy".

[Frontman]

Originally Posted by Maiku

I think it hard for most of us to understand that

1. The executives at Olympus did what the did initially to protect the company. They did not do it to profiteer. I think they genuinely thought they were doing the best for the company. They were trying to save face. They thought they were being HONORABLE. I think they were totally wrong, but understand. They need to be punished.

2. Omori-san`s suicide is completely HONORABLE act in Japan. Our western sense of suicide is completely counter to the Japanese sense of it. You may think it weak and the easy way out, but the Japanese see it an ultimate apology. You cannot say sorry to the people you hurt more than by taking your life. Maybe more suicides will be in offing in the near future.

Westerners had better start to learn that they are different methods of business practices in the world based on culture. Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter. What is behind it is the real question.

This is not true, the executives did not give a rat's backside for the company, they lied to their accountants, stockholders, and government officials simply to hold onto their own jobs and titles.

In modern Japan the highest level in society people can aspire is Chairman or President of a company. You get the corner office, the car and driver, and unlimited use of the company jet. Having the balls to admit you made a mistake might cost you these perks, so why not simply lie? The board will never question you, as you picked each member not because of any talent or skill they might have, but simply because they will always say "yes" to anything you decide.

As for government regulators, they are in your pocket. They are unelected bureuacrats who don't answer to the people or their elected representatives, they only answer to top business executives like yourself. They will never question anything you say or do.

The newspapers will never print a negative story about your company, after all, you pay them a lot to advertise in their papers. As for the alternative press, few people read what they have to say, and even fewer care about what they print.

Were it not for the quick means by which information travels nowadays, you might have gotten away with your crimes until you died of old age, as many of your colleagues and predecessors have.

Unfortunately, you are a too-common breed in Japan, and you and your kind are one of the main problems facing modern Japanese society.

Suicide is the coward's choice. All you do when you kill yourself is transfer your shame to your family and others who did not earn it or deserve it.

Getting back to Mr. Omori in India, his suicide may not be related to his company's scandal. More than likely he screwed up his career in another way, got someone other than his wife pregnant, or picked up an STD. 30,000 people in Japan kill themselves every year, and most of them don't work for Olympus.

[emasterphoto]

Originally Posted by nighstar

i agree, now more than ever the view on suicide in Japan is closer to what it is in western countries (ie. it's far from honorable).

Yes, and you can readily see it paralleled between the two cultures if, for example, you look at something like the groundswell of action aimed against bullying in schools. Bullying has been a big topic there for probably the last 5-6 years or so in popular culture like dramas, manga, variety shows, news etc., and likewise here too more recently. And both for the same reason - namely kids driven to suicide due to relentless bullying. The form of bullying of course varies between the cultures, but the emotional tradgedy of the results is shared and felt fairly equally, thus the overall reaction to the issue is very similar in many ways too.

Sadly, the Japanese acceptance of suicide is really more of an unfortunate apathy or expectation than real, true acceptance. In other words, when people heard of Omori-san's suicide it was likely met more with a feeling of "well, he was a big wig and got caught, so yeah, that he killed himself is kind of expected and not surprising." while at the same time thinking like my wife that it was simply a way of skipping responsibility and nothing more. It's an odd dichotomy that does give the outward appearance of greater acceptance, but I think it's just that, an appearance.

[emasterphoto]

Originally Posted by Araakii

The people who make contaminated food are greedy no doubt, but the majority of Chinese buy counterfeit simply because they cannot afford the luxury that an average American does. You might argue that not everyone needs a luxurious life, but this is precisely the principle that America preaches and tries to spread to the rest of the world.

No, I wouldn't argue that not everyone needs a luxurious life. I also wouldn't try to pin the blame on any specific country either. Simple fact is that people anywhere and everywhere at any level will try to make their lives better and more comfortable on their own whenever possible. People also don't live in a vacuum, especially so in developed countries like China (despite their gov't's attempts at information control). The Chinese can just as easily look at Japan and South Korea as they can Europe, Canada, and the U.S. for inspiration regarding ways of leveling-up their lives. To say that they do what they do solely because America sold them a lifestyle ideology is ignorant at best.

Now, that's not arguing that America doesn't have its share of shady crap to deal with, but we're far from being unique in that regard. Still, America's problems in no way absolve China from acting responsibly and ethically according to standards that are widely accepted among developed countries, like patents and copyrights, and not poisoning your own people and others whenever possible.

Oh and remember, all the current Apple bruhaha about Chinese factories came about from a New York Times piece regarding the issue. New York is in America. We're not perfect, but we're not animals either.

[jarski]

Originally Posted by Maiku

Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter. What is behind it is the real question.

this goes little OT, but regarding the second option, I doubt Chinese necessary think patents does not matter. they have Marxist ideology behind them, which says any Capitalistic property does not matter. all the FSU-gear fans here should understand that

[pinkarmy]

Originally Posted by jarski

this goes little OT, but regarding the second option, I doubt Chinese necessary think patents does not matter. they have Marxist ideology behind them, which says any Capitalistic property does not matter. all the FSU-gear fans here should understand that

and american never make bootleg rolling stones records...