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Again a 6x9 Wide Angle DIY Project
Old 12-17-2011   #1
Thomas78
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Again a 6x9 Wide Angle DIY Project

Hello,

Inspired by this two Threads

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ght=wide+angle

and

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...ght=wide+angle

I want to try building a 6x9 65 mm scale focus camera myself.


The idea is to build a camera for taking pictures of buildings inside cities and landscape with a not to big and heavy (for travelling) 6x9 camera.

I already did the fist step in acquiring a Schneider Kreuznach Super Angulon 65 mm f/8 lens:


Objektiv01b von thomas.78 auf Flickr



Objektiv02b von thomas.78 auf Flickr

The next step would be to get a helicoid for scale focus.

I am considering the Fotoman Helical Focus Mount S:

http://www.fotomancamera.com/accessories_list.asp#243

But I am not sure if I can use it, because ist says
"
Useable Shutters:
Copal - #0, #1
Compur - #00, #0, #1
Prontor - #0, #1
"

and my lens has a "Copal - N 0.0" shutter.

Do you know if the lens fits into this mount or if I have to look for a different helicoid?
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Old 12-17-2011   #2
besk
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It says Copal No. 0 shutter. Yes it will work. Just specify Copal No. 0.
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Old 12-17-2011   #3
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That is a much more desireable shutter than the Compur #00 that these lenses usually use.
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Old 12-17-2011   #4
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The #0 helicoid will fit that lens. I don't think Fotoman are still in business though. There are some other helicoids available on ebay.
Above comments appear to be correct, I had this lens in the #00 shutter, but this is a #0.
I am planning a 6x9/6x7 or 4x5 wide type camera, but I intend to use a linhof wide angle adapter like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linhof-Wide-...ht_1818wt_1252

This will do double duty on my technika 4x5 camera, while my 58mm lens sits on a plate for a 6x9 technika.
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Last edited by CNNY : 12-17-2011 at 08:37. Reason: Corrected info relating to shutter size.
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Old 12-17-2011   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by besk View Post
It says Copal No. 0 shutter. Yes it will work. Just specify Copal No. 0.
Thank you for your quick reply!

Quote:
Originally Posted by besk View Post
That is a much more desireable shutter than the Compur #00 that these lenses usually use.
Why is the Copal #0 more desireable than a Compur #00 ?
(My experience with leaf shutters is limited to Compur and Prontor in folders and TLR.)
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Shout... FOTOMAN ARE STILL IN BUSINESS...
Old 12-17-2011   #6
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Shout... FOTOMAN ARE STILL IN BUSINESS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CNNY View Post
The #0 helicoid will fit that lens. I don't think Fotoman are still in business though. There are some other helicoids available on ebay.
Above comments appear to be correct, I had this lens in the #00 shutter, but this is a #0.
I am planning a 6x9/6x7 or 4x5 wide type camera, but I intend to use a linhof wide angle adapter like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linhof-Wide-...ht_1818wt_1252

This will do double duty on my technika 4x5 camera, while my 58mm lens sits on a plate for a 6x9 technika.
Fotoman just posted two times on large photography format about three days ago indicating they are still in biz and showing some of their current products. The image they posted was too small to see the items very well, but they are alive:

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=84496
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Why Copal....
Old 12-17-2011   #7
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Why Copal....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas78 View Post
Why is the Copal #0 more desireable than a Compur #00 ?
Copal is a much more contemporary shutter and found far more often in current Large Format Usage.

Copal, being found more in LF usually has a lever for opening the shutter with the shutter cocked for focusing on GG, then closing the shutter (remember it's already cocked), inserting the film holder, pulling the dark slide and shooting. I think with the Compur there is no such lever, so focusing has to be done with either a T setting, or a locked cable on B, which means fiddling with the shutter to recock it after focus. The more you have to fiddle with the shutter after focus, the more likely you will change your focus.

Every Copal I have owned has had this lever. I don't know for sure about the Compur shutters, but I have never had a MF shutter on a folder that had the viewing lever, and I've had a few Compurs.

It's a fairly large issue, and contributes to IQ quite a bit if you can open the shutter (when cocked) for viewing focus.
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Old 12-17-2011   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzano View Post
Fotoman just posted two times on large photography format about three days ago indicating they are still in biz and showing some of their current products. The image they posted was too small to see the items very well, but they are alive:

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=84496
Good to know!

It is true that the #00 synchro compur that usually comes with this lens doesn't have the lever for opening the shutter. I don't see this as a disadvantage for a handheld scale focus camera (as the OP is intending it for). It is simple enough to use a locking cable release if you want to use the ground glass. That lever is quite big and I would be concerned about accidentally opening the shutter. Either way this is a great lens that will serve its purpose very nicely. I have used it on 4x5, which it will just cover, so 6x9 is no problem. It was surprisingly sharp.
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Old 12-19-2011   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzano View Post
Fotoman just posted two times on large photography format about three days ago indicating they are still in biz and showing some of their current products. The image they posted was too small to see the items very well, but they are alive:

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...ad.php?t=84496
I asked FOTOIMPEX, the german distributer, if they can order the Helical Focus for me.
They told me that Fotoman stopped building cameras and because of this FOTOIMPEX is no longer able to supply acticles form them.

Perhaps I should contact Fotoman directly.
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Old 12-19-2011   #10
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There's also the Chinese Fotoman website (http://www.fotoman.cc). I think the Chinese side of the business continued when the .com version folded.

The LF forum thread also has some good pics of the DMAX, finally!

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Last edited by ChrisN : 12-19-2011 at 13:51.
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Old 12-20-2011   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
There's also the Chinese Fotoman website (http://www.fotoman.cc). I think the Chinese side of the business continued when the .com version folded.

The LF forum thread also has some good pics of the DMAX, finally!

Thank you for the link!
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Old 01-01-2012   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisN View Post
There's also the Chinese Fotoman website (http://www.fotoman.cc). I think the Chinese side of the business continued when the .com version folded.

...

Meanwhile I contacted Fotoman directly ant they told me that they are still in business ant that I could order from them directly.


As I am waiting for the shipment of the Focus Mount, the next step of this project is to look for a "camera body"/film holder for the lens.

It should fulfill the following requirements:

- using 120 film
- format 6x9 or 6x10 (56x84 - 56 x 100)
- red window advance is fully acceptable
- providing adequate film flatness for the 65 mm f/8 lens


So now I am thinking if I should use a body from an old folder (film flatness?), a film holder for a sheet film camera or something else?
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Old 01-01-2012   #13
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For excellent film flatness, I'd seriously consider a 6x9 Mamiya Press back.
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Old 01-01-2012   #14
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Or a Horseman back...
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Old 01-01-2012   #15
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An interesting project indeed. But if I may ask (no pun intended) - what is advantage of scale focus 6x9 camera with 65/8 lens compared to Fuji GSW690? Or do you plan to use the ground glass for more precise focusing?

I thought many times about 6x12, but what keeps me back is the size of the camera (lens in helicoid is large the most 6x12 backs are large and one gets no movements ..).
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Old 01-01-2012   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matus View Post
An interesting project indeed. But if I may ask (no pun intended) - what is advantage of scale focus 6x9 camera with 65/8 lens compared to Fuji GSW690? Or do you plan to use the ground glass for more precise focusing?
should be much smaller, about month ago at the camera swap I was playing with custom 6x7 Alpa-like camera with build-in movements (10 or 15mm shift both vertical and horizontal). virtually it was size of mamiya RB back plus Super-Angulon 47mm on the front.
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Old 01-09-2012   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfox View Post
For excellent film flatness, I'd seriously consider a 6x9 Mamiya Press back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzardkid View Post
Or a Horseman back...
The Mamiya Press back seems to be a bit bulky, but perhaps it will give the camera a good grip for the hands at the prominent film spool housings. What is the purpose the switch at the back with the labeling "6 x 45" and "6x6" ?
Does the back also support this two film formats?

Or taking the more radical approach to modify an old folder body so that it would be able to take six images at 6 x 10 ?

I have to think a while about this...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Matus View Post
An interesting project indeed. But if I may ask (no pun intended) - what is advantage of scale focus 6x9 camera with 65/8 lens compared to Fuji GSW690? Or do you plan to use the ground glass for more precise focusing?
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbielikowski View Post
should be much smaller...
Exactly, it should become a rather small and lightweight camea for photographing landscapes and buildings.

Because of the broad DOF of the 65 mm lens (in 6x9 it is the equivalent to 28 mm at 135 film) at f/8 or smaller a scale focus will be accurate enought in most cases, in more critical cases I could use a uncoupled RF. But I an thinking of constructing the camera body in a way to allow me ground glass focusing if desired.
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Old 01-09-2012   #18
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Today - just 9 days after my payment and 6 days after the order confirmation the parcel from Fotoman China arrived:


Fotoman von thomas.78 auf Flickr

Here the Focus Mount togeter with the Super Angulon 65 mm f/8:



Super Angulon + Focus Mount von thomas.78 auf Flickr


To transfer the lens from the lens board to the focus mont i have to unsrew this ring (the distance between the two notches is about 38 mm):


Super Angulon screw mount von thomas.78 auf Flickr


Is there a special tool for unscrewing this ring available or do I have to make one on my own ?
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Old 01-09-2012   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowfox View Post
For excellent film flatness, I'd seriously consider a 6x9 Mamiya Press back.
Why not start with a decapitated Press for the body?
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Old 01-09-2012   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas78 View Post
Is there a special tool for unscrewing this ring available or do I have to make one on my own ?
Thomas, you are looking for a spanner wrench.

One thing - I have noticed that on the helical mount you posted says "f=85mm" - is that the focal length? I am asking as you mentioned you wanted to use 65mm lens.

Looking forward to see the progress.
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Old 01-09-2012   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matus View Post

...
One thing - I have noticed that on the helical mount you posted says "f=85mm" - is that the focal length? I am asking as you mentioned you wanted to use 65mm lens.

Looking forward to see the progress.
Thank you for metioning your obeservation!
It is really hard to see on the image, but it is really a helical mount for a 65 mm lens.
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I used the bigcamera.com website as a guide
Old 01-09-2012   #22
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I used the bigcamera.com website as a guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruby.monkey View Post
Why not start with a decapitated Press for the body?
I flat-topped a Universal Press Mamiya body (the rangefinder was broken) and made this body. I shot 6X9 with a Mamiya type III back (the one with the shutter release built into the back)

You can use any of the Mamiya Press bodies, but the Universal makes the most sense because the body opening on the film side was made large enough to shoot Polaroid Pack film at 3X4 inches and there are about twice as many peripheral backs for the Universal as for the older Press and Super 23 bodies.

Here is the flat top page on the bigcamera.com web site:

http://www.bigcamera.com/articles/MakeFlatTop.htm
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Old 01-10-2012   #23
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Yesterday night I talked to my dad about this project and if he had a proper spanner wrench - and the result was that we build our own spanner wrench:



spanner wrench_b von thomas.78 auf Flickr


here you can see the mounting of the lens at the Focus Mount:



mounting the lens_b von thomas.78 auf Flickr


And here the Super Angulon 65 mm f/8 at the Focus Mount:



Super Angulon in Focus Mount_1b von thomas.78 auf Flickr



Super Angulon in Focus Mount_2b von thomas.78 auf Flickr


The weight of the lens with focus mount and both lens caps is 421 g.

Is it correct to assume that the optical main plane (?) is at (or very near to) the aperture blades and that at the (non retrofocus) lens the distance from the aperture baldes to the focal plane ( set to infinity) should be the focal lenght of the lens ?
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Old 01-19-2012   #24
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Wow, that's a nice DIY tool! You'll love having that spanner around.
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Old 04-13-2012   #25
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Meanwhile I got an old Mamiya 6x9 film holder:


Mamiya Film Holder01b von thomas.78 auf Flickr


Mamiya Film Holder02b von thomas.78 auf Flickr


Mamiya Film Holder03b von thomas.78 auf Flickr

It seem to be in a good condition except the seal at the hinge of the back door which is deteriorated.


The next step will be the construction of a body to combine the film holder with the lens.
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