Go Back   Rangefinderforum.com > Cameras / Gear / Photography > Leicas and other Leica Mount Cameras > Konica RF / Zeiss Ikon ZM Leica Mount Rangefinders

Konica RF / Zeiss Ikon ZM Leica Mount Rangefinders Konica and Zeiss versions of the AE electronic film rangefinder camera

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Got the Body - now how about a lens?
Old 12-11-2010   #1
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
 
dogbunny's Avatar
 
dogbunny is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 熊本市, Japan
Posts: 571
Got the Body - now how about a lens?

I finally picked up a Hexar after lusting over one for many years. I've owned the AF for many years, so I figured this would be the next step for me. I thought I'd ask some advice on picking up some lenses.

Unfortunately, I'm not super wealthy. I'm looking to pick up some thing cheap short term and then get something more substantial in February (getting a nice Lunar New Year bonus). I generally like 35mm lenses from years of shooting the AF, but I was considering going a bit wider. I'm not so picky about the lens I get short term, I just want something to use. I'm interested in what ya'll would recommend for the cheap one and the keeper. I would like it to be fairly wide and fairly fast so I can take advantage of the higher shutter speeds during the day. I dig lenses with at least some character. Anyhow, I welcome your opinions.

DB
__________________
Deserve your dream -- Octavio Paz
  Reply With Quote

Cv
Old 12-11-2010   #2
noimmunity
scratch my niche
 
noimmunity's Avatar
 
noimmunity is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lyon/Taipei
Age: 53
Posts: 3,114
Cv

Either:

CV Ultron 28/2.
Character, check.
Won't break the bank, check.
Fairly wide and fairly fast, check.

Or:

a fast 35 like the CV 35/1.4
easy to get and easy to sell.

Depends on which focal length you really prefer. Since you like the Hexar AF, why not stick with a 35? Pair it with a 75 in February and you've got a cool rig (or alternately, pair the 28 with a fast 50 like the ZM C Sonnar in February).


Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbunny View Post
I finally picked up a Hexar after lusting over one for many years. I've owned the AF for many years, so I figured this would be the next step for me. I thought I'd ask some advice on picking up some lenses.

Unfortunately, I'm not super wealthy. I'm looking to pick up some thing cheap short term and then get something more substantial in February (getting a nice Lunar New Year bonus). I generally like 35mm lenses from years of shooting the AF, but I was considering going a bit wider. I'm not so picky about the lens I get short term, I just want something to use. I'm interested in what ya'll would recommend for the cheap one and the keeper. I would like it to be fairly wide and fairly fast so I can take advantage of the higher shutter speeds during the day. I dig lenses with at least some character. Anyhow, I welcome your opinions.

DB
__________________
jon 小強


flickr
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #3
Arjay
Time Traveller
 
Arjay's Avatar
 
Arjay is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Munich, Germany
Age: 66
Posts: 800
Don't duplicate focal lenths if you're on a budget - you can still use your Hexar AF for 35mm. For starters, get the Ultron - there's no fast alternative to this lens this side of 1k$, and it's a very capable tool.

How about looking for a 21mm/2.8 Avenon/Kobalux LTM w/ M adapter and viewfinder starting February (start looking early, because they're not for sale every day)? Again, there are hardly any viable alternatives to that lens in budget terms, and it is said to be a good performer.
__________________
FujiFilm X100, Fuji X-Pro 1, Konica Hexar RF, Hexanon & CV glass & Nikon Coolscan V ... plus a big, bad DSLR

My RFF Gallery, My Flickr, My Ipernity, all presenting different bodies of work
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #4
maddoc
... likes film.
 
maddoc's Avatar
 
maddoc is offline
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 三鷹市
Age: 50
Posts: 7,008
... 28mm Avenon (Kobalux) 1:3.5 LTM + adapter, very nice and not expensive.
__________________
- Gabor

flickr
pBase
blog
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #5
shyoon
Registered User
 
shyoon's Avatar
 
shyoon is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Posts: 368
Cheap: CV 35mm f2.5

Keeper: ZM 25mm f2.8
__________________
freshprints.tumblr.com
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #6
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
 
Phil_F_NM's Avatar
 
Phil_F_NM is offline
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Age: 39
Posts: 2,929
Leica Summaron f/2.8 (or f/3.5). With a wide angle you don't have to worry quite as much about slower shutter speeds since you can handhold longer for acceptable results.

The Canon Serenars are very good lenses. Old, made of chromes brass. You'll find some interesting versions in there but the cheapest is the 35mm f/2.8. Between the Summaron and the Serenar, i'd pick the Summaron, but for the average cost of the f/2.8 version you can buy two or even three serenars.

Other than that, the Kobalux lenses are great but they approach the cost of ZM lenses in the same focal lengths. I have a ZM 21mm f/2.8 and it's amazing.

Canon wides don't get too fast unless you're talking about the 35mm f/1.5 and in that case just get a Nokton

Lesser expensive lenses that will get you by are the Russian ones. Some very good ones at that.

Sometimes there are some extremely good deals here on RFF (like the 50mm f/1.2 that I got from Pickett, holy cow!) you just need to scour the classifieds regularly.

Phil Forrest
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #7
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
 
dogbunny's Avatar
 
dogbunny is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 熊本市, Japan
Posts: 571
Thanks guys,

Some good suggestions--a few of which I'd never even heard of. I don't know anything about adaptors. Would a LTM lens with an adaptor still allow the rangefinder focusing to be used normally?

Arjay, That's a good point about not getting duplicate lenses.

The Kobalux seems interesting. I'll go look at some images made with that, the Ultron, and the Serenars.

I'm not sure how I feel about ZM lenses, sometimes I like the images and sometimes I think they have a kind of clinical feel to them.

Do you guys think a 28mm lens is too similar (as far as image) to the 35mm? Would I be better off going to a 25mm or 21mm? I really I have no experience with lenses other than 35mm and 50mm.
__________________
Deserve your dream -- Octavio Paz
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #8
Krosya
Konicaze
 
Krosya's Avatar
 
Krosya is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,540
Well, what about Konica's own Hexanons? Super lenses and can be found at good prices, plus will have a better built and peformance than most other lenses in the same price range.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35mm Rangefinders : Leica M5 and RD1S w/ many M and LTM lenses

Folders
:
Welta Weltur 6x6/645, Welta Weltur 6x9/645


flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #9
35mmdelux
Fight On!
 
35mmdelux's Avatar
 
35mmdelux is offline
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,238
ANY CV Cosina lens is more than capable performer with the most common being the 35mm or 50mm.
__________________
M-E │ 21 asph │ 35 asph │ 50 apo-classic │ 75 apo │ Harley-Davidson FatBoy
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #10
kzphoto
Registered User
 
kzphoto's Avatar
 
kzphoto is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krosya View Post
Well, what about Konica's own Hexanons? Super lenses and can be found at good prices, plus will have a better built and peformance than most other lenses in the same price range.
I'm with Krosya on this one -- I have owned the 90/2.8 and I currently own the 35/2 KM. Both lenses perform like champions and they were about the same price as a CV lens. That said, if I were going to get a new CV lens, I'd look at the 28/2, or the 40/1.4. Both are great lenses.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #11
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
 
dogbunny's Avatar
 
dogbunny is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 熊本市, Japan
Posts: 571
For the Hexanon, is the 28mm 2.8f as wide as they go? I have no complaints with my AF lens, I love it.
__________________
Deserve your dream -- Octavio Paz
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #12
kzphoto
Registered User
 
kzphoto's Avatar
 
kzphoto is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,180
dogbunny: There's a limited 21-35 lens that I have seen / read about, but they are in the thousands of dollars. The 28/2.8 is the widest KM hexanon you can find easily. They seem to go for around 500 - 700 depending on condition / extras.

If you're after a 21 the CV 21/4.5 is a great little lens and it makes some awesome photos.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #13
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
 
KoNickon is offline
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Age: 57
Posts: 2,994
Konica did go wider --they made a remarkable dual focal length 21/35, but it's really hard to find (and relatively slow anyway). I'd stay with a 28 if you want wider than 35, since the Hexar has 28mm framelines.

I don't agree that the Hexanons are about the same price as the CVs -- seems to me the prices for the Hexanons are pretty high these days, since they aren't making any more of them! But if you can get the Hex 28/2.8 I highly recommend it. Same goes for the Kobalux 28.

One lens no one has mentioned yet is the Rokkor 28/2.8 -- make sure you get one without the infamous dreaded white spots.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-11-2010   #14
noimmunity
scratch my niche
 
noimmunity's Avatar
 
noimmunity is offline
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lyon/Taipei
Age: 53
Posts: 3,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbunny View Post
Do you guys think a 28mm lens is too similar (as far as image) to the 35mm?
Widely debated; a matter of personal perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbunny View Post
Would I be better off going to a 25mm or 21mm?
Depends on how committed you are to getting a fast aperture, per your initial post? Most of the suggestions above are not among the fast+inexpensive alternatives in their class.

You will also want to consider whether you want to use the in-built framelines of the Hexar or an external VF. One of the great things about an RF, for me, is being able to see outside the framelines when composing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbunny View Post
I really I have no experience with lenses other than 35mm and 50mm.
Precisely the kind of situation in which you'd be best first buying used CV to find out whether you like the focal length. CV is a specialist of the small-but-not-fast, outstanding (if you get a good copy) WA lens.

In the fast department, CV is also a specialist of the affordable fast semi-WA lens.
__________________
jon 小強


flickr
Flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-12-2010   #15
viramati
Registered User
 
viramati is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: London
Posts: 82
I don't use my hexar much but when I do I tend to use it with the CV 50 1.5 which is a really excellent lens. I don't have it anymore but the zeiss biagon 25 f2.8 is an amazing lens and can be used on the hexar without an external viewfinder as what you get on the film pretty much relates to what you can see using the full viewfinder (that is outside the 28 framelines)
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-12-2010   #16
kzphoto
Registered User
 
kzphoto's Avatar
 
kzphoto is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,180
Re prices on used hexanon lenses: I bought a used 90/2.8 for $415, and a 35/2 for $680. The 50,90 are similar in price to CV lenses. KEH regularly sells EX- copies of both the 50 or the 90 for around $450.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-26-2010   #17
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
 
dogbunny's Avatar
 
dogbunny is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 熊本市, Japan
Posts: 571
Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the info. In the end, I purchased a Avanon 21mm lens. I (kind of on a whim) decided to get something very different than I'm used to. The lens should arrive next week.

So just one more question. I know this lens needs a LTM adaptor. Does it matter which size you use? I mean there seems to be 3 standard ones available, but none specifically for a 21mm. I picked up a 28mm-90mm adaptor today. I was the only one the store had and it was pretty cheap, will that be fine? If not, I suppose I can visit another store, there are plenty of them around here.

I understand the Hexar framelines won't match up, but the lens does come with one giant garbage can size viewfinder--I might have to get something a bit smaller later. So, I should be able to focus through the rangefinder, then frame using the external viewfinder, is this correct?

thanks in advance,

DB
__________________
Deserve your dream -- Octavio Paz
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-26-2010   #18
jmkelly
rangefinder user
 
jmkelly's Avatar
 
jmkelly is offline
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 551
I had a late version of the Avenon 21mm - it is one of the few lenses I regret selling. It made a really good package with the Hexar. The widest frameline on the Hexar is 28mm so you got the right adapter. If you want to compose in the full frame you need an external VF. The Avenon finder that matches the lens is big and clunky - I'd go with the CV finder.

BTW the DOF on this lens is so great that in normal light you can just set it on hyperfocal and do all your composing through the external VF.
__________________
- John
Some people actually know things, others just run their soup-sucks.
  Reply With Quote

Old 12-26-2010   #19
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
 
dogbunny's Avatar
 
dogbunny is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 熊本市, Japan
Posts: 571
Thanks John,

I believe I got a late model version (black) as well. I'm glad to hear what you said about just setting it to hyperfocal and composing, because I've actually been trying to do that more often recently.

I'll take a look at the CV finder.

Cheers,

DB
__________________
Deserve your dream -- Octavio Paz
  Reply With Quote

Old 01-08-2011   #20
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
 
dogbunny's Avatar
 
dogbunny is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 熊本市, Japan
Posts: 571
I just wanted to post a pic for you guys and say thanks again for your help. I went with a 21mm because I wanted to experience shooting/composing with a lens very different than what I'm use to. I really dig the look. I'll post my impressions of the camera/lens later.

Cheers,

DB

__________________
Deserve your dream -- Octavio Paz
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2011   #21
umcelinho
Marcelo
 
umcelinho's Avatar
 
umcelinho is offline
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sao Paulo
Age: 33
Posts: 1,328
Since the Hexar RF's viewfinder has a .6x magnification, what would be equivalent to its full area? 24mm? I ask because I also have a 21mm and am wondering if I could kiss the external VF goodbye...
__________________
Gear:
• right eye
• right index finger
• cameras & lenses

What I've seen around: flickr

  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2011   #22
pvdhaar
Zoom with your feet!
 
pvdhaar's Avatar
 
pvdhaar is offline
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 3,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by umcelinho View Post
Since the Hexar RF's viewfinder has a .6x magnification, what would be equivalent to its full area? 24mm? I ask because I also have a 21mm and am wondering if I could kiss the external VF goodbye...
I've found the outer edges of the Hexar-RF finder to go well with the 25. That's about as wide as it goes. I think a 21 is pushing it a little too far..
__________________
Kind regards,

Peter

My Hexländer Gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2011   #23
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
 
dogbunny's Avatar
 
dogbunny is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 熊本市, Japan
Posts: 571
I don't mind the external viewfinder that much as far as actual use goes. I do find myself being more cautious with the camera with it hanging around my neck and with putting it in and out of my camera bag. One other coolish thing about the finder is that it shows flare. I don't know if it is always true, but for the most part, if I am seeing flare through the external viewfinder it will be there in the photo. I might buy a smaller external viewfinder later on down the line, but I really don't mind it at this point. Of course, I would prefer not having to use one at all, but I'm still pretty happy with the lens.

db
__________________
Deserve your dream -- Octavio Paz
  Reply With Quote

Old 02-18-2011   #24
jsrockit
Moderator
 
jsrockit's Avatar
 
jsrockit is offline
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NYC
Age: 42
Posts: 16,622
CV 35mm f/1.7, f/1.4, or f/2.5 - you can't go wrong with any of these on a budget.
  Reply With Quote

Also picking up a Hexar RF
Old 03-06-2011   #25
dct
Registered User
 
dct's Avatar
 
dct is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,146
Question Also picking up a Hexar RF

Now I am in the similar situation as the thread starter. I just sent the money to a RFF mate here for a Hexar RF and I'm awaiting my new gift in the next weeks.

Let me introduce the purpose of this camera.

I managed to borrow a first M-lens (CV 40 mm / F 1,4 Nokton) to do my first steps with the Hexar. But this is not what I am looking for. (It is the same angle of view as my Ricoh 500GX has). I'm more in landscape and big building shots. My only alternative - at he moment - is to still use the V 17mm F3.5 (around 22 equivalent) on my Vectis SLR gear to get a good wide angle.

That's why I'm more interested on a wider lens for the Hexar and I understood, from many threads here, that the viewfinder of the Hexar RF has as wide angle which matches about a 25mm lens (full viewfinder outside 28mm frame) and is a good working alternative to the standard 28mm frame lenses.

Looking thru the internet I found the following lenses matching +/- my preferences in the range of 24...28mm from the technical point of view:
  1. SUMMILUX-M 1:1,4/24 mm ASPH
  2. ELMARIT-M 1:2,8/24 mm ASPH
  3. ELMAR-M 1:3,8/24 mm ASPH
  4. Biogon T* 2,8/25 ZM
  5. 25 mm / F 4,0 Color Skopar Pancake
  6. SUMMICRON-M 1:2/28 mm ASPH
  7. 28 mm / F 2.0 Ultron
  8. ELMARIT-M 1:2,8/28 mm ASPH
  9. M-ROKKOR 28mm/1:2.8
  10. M-HEXANON 28mm F2.8

This is what I know. And I should state that I cannot afford the typical Leica prices over USD 1000. Filtering some items because of the price, my list shrinks to:
  1. Zeiss Biogon T* 2,8/25 ZM
  2. CV 25 mm / F 4,0 Color Skopar Pancake
  3. CV 28 mm / F 2.0 Ultron
  4. Minolta M-ROKKOR 28mm/1:2.8
  5. Konica M-HEXANON 28mm F2.8

Not really a long list of choices and, only one lens below 28mm.

Now to the crowd here, a few questions:
  1. Do you support the idea of going wider then 28mm with a Hexar RF (without using external VF)?
  2. What is your advice for alternatives under USD 1000 additionally to my list? Or do you even have personal experience in one of these lenses or similar ones you may recommend?
  3. I even don't know which LTM39mm lenses does make sense for my purposes. Are there many around here?

Thank you for sharing your ideas!
__________________
photos
RFF gallery

Last edited by dct : 03-06-2011 at 02:02. Reason: typo
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-06-2011   #26
dogbunny
Registered Boozer
 
dogbunny's Avatar
 
dogbunny is offline
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 熊本市, Japan
Posts: 571
I'm sure there are people more knowledgeable than me, but I find the viewfinder necessary at 21mm any how. The lens with the hood blocks the viewfinder a bit, so I get a cleaner field of view through the external viewfinder. I have read here though, that some people don't seem to mind working without it.

I've seen both the Minolta and Hexannon 28mm come up for sale here in the classifieds, both can go for under a grand. Also, a Kobalux/Avenon can be had in 28mm for under a grand as well.

Cheers,

DB
__________________
Deserve your dream -- Octavio Paz
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-06-2011   #27
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
 
mfunnell's Avatar
 
mfunnell is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,440
The M-Hexanon 28/2.8 is a very good lens, and I give mine a lot of use. I'm told the ZM 25mm/f2.8 is a stellar performer as well, though I have no personal knowledge of it. I imagine it would go well on a Hexar RF using the full viewfinder rather than the 28mm framelines.

And the Hexar RF is a wonderful camera. Welcome to the club!

...Mike
__________________
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness." Dave Barry

My flickr photostream has day-to-day stuff and I've given up most everywhere else through lack of time or perhaps interest.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-07-2011   #28
Krosya
Konicaze
 
Krosya's Avatar
 
Krosya is offline
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,540
While most lenses you list are great or at least very good, your best bang for the buck is CV 28/1.9 ASPH LTM. I used to have a ZM 25/2.8 and M-Hexanon 28/2.8. Both are superb, but were too slow at times, so CV 28/1.9 works the best for me in this case and cost the least of these three.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
35mm Rangefinders : Leica M5 and RD1S w/ many M and LTM lenses

Folders
:
Welta Weltur 6x6/645, Welta Weltur 6x9/645


flickr
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-08-2011   #29
kzphoto
Registered User
 
kzphoto's Avatar
 
kzphoto is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,180
The 25/2.8 is a stunning lens, but unless you're really into wides, I'd stick to the 28/2.8. You can find used 28 Hexanon-M lenses for 680-750 USD. There's a few on ebay right now.

Consider that if you do buy a 25/2.8, you might need a VF as well.
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-12-2011   #30
dct
Registered User
 
dct's Avatar
 
dct is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,146
Thank you for all the advice so far. It helps me alot. Now I got the parcel. All seems well. The Hexar RF has a very great touch and feel. As soon I have taken the decision about the lens, I will post again.
__________________
photos
RFF gallery
  Reply With Quote

Old 03-26-2011   #31
dct
Registered User
 
dct's Avatar
 
dct is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,146
Thanks to the users namdenfoto and rafael I have now a complete Leica Mount equipment with body Hexar RF and wide lens CV 28/3,5 Color Skopar LTM.

Spent today the first few hours lurking around with my new RF toy. So the first roll is started and I will post my Hexar experiences as soon as possible.

Now that I own my first lens there is not so big pressure to get the next. But the next will come, sooner or later: A ultra wide one or a 50mm. Budget and opportunity will tell me the first.
__________________
photos
RFF gallery

Last edited by dct : 04-24-2011 at 01:24. Reason: link corrected
  Reply With Quote

sample pictures
Old 04-30-2011   #32
dct
Registered User
 
dct's Avatar
 
dct is offline
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,146
sample pictures

Quote:
Originally Posted by dct View Post
So the first roll is started and I will post my Hexar experiences as soon as possible.
Here we go, with some flowers.

I'm really pleased about the visual quality of this lens (and camera). Thanks again to all the advices and opinions which helped me getting a very good camera-lens combination.

In addition: comparing the mixed up images in my gallery, I'm really amazed about the quality grade of the APS pictures, compared to those off the Hexar.

More to come.
__________________
photos
RFF gallery
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:06.


vBulletin skin developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

All content on this site is Copyright Protected and owned by its respective owner. You may link to content on this site but you may not reproduce any of it in whole or part without written consent from its owner.