Love my M2 !!!

[amateriat]

I'm putting in entry #130 (or thereabouts) in this thread. I'd call that a good deal of M2 love.

The one in my possession (chrome) has had relatively little wear. Which is a good thing, sinc it's going to get a workout once I get the blasted rewind knob thingy fixed properly!


- Barrett

[mabelsound]

This thread made me realize I've been neglecting mine. Took it out yesterday with the Summar...

[mabelsound]

Originally Posted by Disaster_Area

anyone have any pics of a really well used chrome M2? I've searched google and flickr in vain to find a pic of a beat up brassed one... they all look so nice.

I have to admit, I kind of idly rub mine with my thumbs while I'm walking sometimes...there's an engraving on the back (somebody else's name) and I would love to wear it off eventually. But I can't bear the thought of intentionally taking some sandpaper to it.

The chrome seems amazingly sturdy--more so than the black chrome on my M7, which is more visibly worn, even in just the year I've had it.

[Instantclassic]

M2 with Tele-Elmarit. Flare testing...

[Lilserenity]

I notice I commented on this a year ago, just over. Since then I have taken a good few thousand frames with my M2, and it's need of a CLA big time (shutter blinds sticking, rewind knob is loose...) but then I have got great use from it.

The problem is I can't afford the CLA at the moment, it could cost me £250 or so if I need new shutter blinds.

Sometimes it's fine, other times you get this bright overexposed strip, not more than a mm across probably less, but it can appear right down the middle of the frame ruining a shot.

But I can be happy about it too, because since getting the M2, I have almost completed my first real documentary project (the Milton Keynes one), which I have had one exhibition of, one coming up, and 2 more with dates tbc. So it's been a good camera to me. I even sold my first photo last week, so you know. Baby steps.

But it sure ain't paying for the bills yet. Not by a long shot, maybe never, but it's fine. It just needs fixing up a bit.

Vicky

[wgerrard]

Originally Posted by Lilserenity

I notice I commented on this a year ago, just over. Since then I have taken a good few thousand frames with my M2, and it's need of a CLA big time (shutter blinds sticking, rewind knob is loose...)

Vicky, I bought on an M2 last month and it's a great camera. It is also 48 years old and cost as much as a new Bessa. Is the Bessa built as well? Probably not. (I have an R4M.) It's also not 48 years old. Is the M2 a dead cinch to be more reliable than the Bessa? Not at all, I think.

[literiter]

Originally Posted by wgerrard

Vicky, I bought on an M2 last month and it's a great camera. It is also 48 years old and cost as much as a new Bessa. Is the Bessa built as well? Probably not. (I have an R4M.) It's also not 48 years old. Is the M2 a dead cinch to be more reliable than the Bessa? Not at all, I think.

Hard to say, about reliability. I've seen inside a Bessa L, I'm afraid and would put little stock in the thing lasting as long as a 48 year old Leica.

What I have seen of the Bessa L:
-The base is not metal, but very thin plastic held on with tiny self threading screws. Very bad.
-The escapement has at least two plastic gears. Very bad.
-The internal metal parts I've seen so far are stamped tin.
-The top is plastic.
-All the knobs are plastic.
-The shutter is metal but really crappy.
-The advance lever is stamped thin metal covered with a thin sheath of plastic.
-The camera back is all plastic.
-I think wherever plastic could be used it was used.

-It ain't a Leica M

[wgerrard]

Originally Posted by literiter

Hard to say, about reliability. I've seen inside a Bessa L, I'm afraid and would put little stock in the thing lasting as long as a 48 year old Leica.

What I have seen of the Bessa L:
-The base is not metal, but very thin plastic held on with tiny self threading screws. Very bad.
-The escapement has at least two plastic gears. Very bad.
-The internal metal parts I've seen so far are stamped tin.
-The top is plastic.
-All the knobs are plastic.
-The shutter is metal but really crappy.
-The advance lever is stamped thin metal covered with a thin sheath of plastic.
-The camera back is all plastic.
-I think wherever plastic could be used it was used.

-It ain't a Leica M

A Bessa R4* is not a Bessa L. Your description of the L does not match my R4M.

Besides, being made of metal -- brass, zinc, or otherwise -- is no guarantor of reliability. Modern plastics are often lighter and stronger than metals. If you doubt this, I suggest you don't fly.

[literiter]

Originally Posted by wgerrard

A Bessa R4* is not a Bessa L. Your description of the L does not match my R4M.

I'm glad if this is the case. I'm not likely to find out unless someone else posts pics of inside the camera.

I also agree that many modern plastics are as good as or better than metal. Too bad these weren't used in my particular Bessa L.

Before I sound too bitter I must add that I also have a Voigtlander Heliar 15mm f4.5 LTM lens. This appears to be a well made lens and I really enjoy using it. I cannot assume the lens and the camera were made by the same company. I may consider getting a 50mm Voigtlander lens in the near future.

[Lilserenity]

Originally Posted by wgerrard

Vicky, I bought on an M2 last month and it's a great camera. It is also 48 years old and cost as much as a new Bessa. Is the Bessa built as well? Probably not. (I have an R4M.) It's also not 48 years old. Is the M2 a dead cinch to be more reliable than the Bessa? Not at all, I think.

Well, given mine is 52 years old (quite an early one, lever rewind but no self timer) I think it's done pretty well. Not sure if it's had any attention since 1958, it must have at some point. But I scored it at a price that I could easily have paid almost double again so it was a good bargain. The problem is the people I bought it from went out of business before the warranty was up.

But no matter, because I love using the M2 so much, and because I know it can be fixed up, it seems rather irrational spending upto £250 on a camera to have to have it all brought up to scratch, but the degree to which I like my M2 is irrational; and money doesn't figure in it really. Never would I think of not fixing it up, it's a matter of time, I'd do anything to keep it going. And I know if it is done properly, it'll give it a real new lease of life.

Will it need another CLA at 70 years of age, probably, but in 20 years time I'm probably gonna need some attention here and there too

I have never used a Bessa extensively so couldn't comment.

But my point is just that £250 is a lot of money to spend on what is an old camera, but it's one I have a very irrational devoted relationship to, it's been good to me

Vicky

[literiter]

Originally Posted by Lilserenity

But my point is just that £250 is a lot of money to spend on what is an old camera, but it's one I have a very irrational devoted relationship to, it's been good to me

Vicky

"irrational devoted relationship"
-I bought my M2 in 1980. It was made in 1962. I recently paid $250.00 cdn. to have a proper CLA.
-The camera cost me $100.00 cdn. in 1980.
-The CLA $250.00 cdn
-I can sell the camera for about $700.00, plus I've had the pleasure of using it since 1980.
-I would net $350.00 if I were to sell it. (which won't happen)

I think you are being quite rational.

[wgerrard]

Folks, I'm not knocking the M2. I understand the irrational part of owning one, otherwise I would not have purchased mine. I just think that it is, in fact, also irrational to expect anything as old as any M2 to be perfect. As for the Bessa, I was just pointing out that for the price of an old M2 in user condition, you can also buy a brand new Bessa. My Bessa may not be hand built, but it also wasn't made in 1962 like my M2. I think that counts for something.

[Lilserenity]

Ahh the M2 won't be perfect at the ages they are for sure. Like I say I can't comment on the Bessas because it wouldn't be fair to, I haven't used one enough, but the short time I used one for, very nice camera.

So I know you're not knocking the M2, and even if you were, I'd be fine with that too, not everyone must like what I like. The world would be a much duller if more peaceful place if we all were like that

As for being rational, maybe I am, I mean I'll get the CLA done and that'll last a long time, and I have no plans to ever sell my M2 so, I'd rather put money into it, than to something that in 10 years time will be obsolete and I may have trouble getting drivers working with the latest and greatest OS. Maybe that won't be a problem with USB now being around and standardised memory cards.

Regardless, to me, spending 80% of what I paid for my M2 on a CLA with shutter (you have to be so careful, I next to U, I dunno!) replacement seems like a good idea to me.

Just hoping that a bit of kickback from performing well at work comes through this week. It'll be the first time ever if I do.

Vicky

[wgerrard]

Originally Posted by Lilserenity

... I'll get the CLA done and that'll last a long time, and I have no plans to ever sell my M2...

Sounds rational to me. I'd certainly pay to have mine serviced, if and when it needs it.

It's funny how many people of us choose a camera based on comfort, feel, reputation, etc., and not on an analysis of its technical capabilities depicted as a long list of performance statistics. Folks here choose rangefinders, old or new, for varied reasons, which we all love to explain to each other. But, have you ever seen someone justify a purchase by posting a dpreview-style list of stats? No, because that's secondary.

The numbers are important for digital purchases, because digitals are in the position of personal computers in the eighties and early nineties, when a percentile of improvement would distinguish you in that immature market.

RF's, by contrast, are so simple and so much alike that we have the luxury of focusing on things like reliability, the number of framelines and whether or not they're visible to eyeglass wearers, what the thing is coated with, etc.

[Erik van Straten]

Originally Posted by Lilserenity

Regardless, to me, spending 80% of what I paid for my M2 on a CLA with shutter (you have to be so careful, I next to U, I dunno!) replacement seems like a good idea to me.

When the curtains are still smooth and supple, there is no need to replace them. I have a Leica I from 1930 with its original curtains and they are OK. As leica-parts are expensive now, a CLA without replacing the curtains would be substantial cheaper.

Erik.

[nobbylon]

Originally Posted by Lilserenity

I notice I commented on this a year ago, just over. Since then I have taken a good few thousand frames with my M2, and it's need of a CLA big time (shutter blinds sticking, rewind knob is loose...) but then I have got great use from it.

The problem is I can't afford the CLA at the moment, it could cost me £250 or so if I need new shutter blinds.

Sometimes it's fine, other times you get this bright overexposed strip, not more than a mm across probably less, but it can appear right down the middle of the frame ruining a shot.

But I can be happy about it too, because since getting the M2, I have almost completed my first real documentary project (the Milton Keynes one), which I have had one exhibition of, one coming up, and 2 more with dates tbc. So it's been a good camera to me. I even sold my first photo last week, so you know. Baby steps.

But it sure ain't paying for the bills yet. Not by a long shot, maybe never, but it's fine. It just needs fixing up a bit.

Vicky

Vicky,
Is it the slow speeds sticking occasionally? It's an easy diy fix if you are patient and have the clamps to get the top off. Even setting the higher speeds is easy with patience. I've found in the past that cleaning the slow speed movement cured a sticking shutter and once done the speeds where fine. As far as high speeds go, unless the camers is dropped or truly clogged there is no need to adjust any of the speed settings. More likely if it's the higher speeds it's just curtain tension. To time mine I use a home made electronic speed tester and no more than an old style crt tv screen. It's only 2 screws on the base of the camera. Personally I enjoy doing these jobs myself as it's very satisfying and cheap!
regards j

[MPerson]

My 1963 M2. The original owner was a US photo-journalist covering Vietnam. I won it off him in Raffles Hotel, Singapore in 1969 whilst he was on R&R. We became great friends, he was killed in 1973.

Since then it has been all over the world with me and survived annual artic warfare & survival training in the winters of Norway. Active service in Northern Ireland, Belize, Falklands and both Gulf wars. Peacekeeping in Africa and Kosovo.

It has been drowned, frozen, bombed, dropped, blasted a distance of 200 yards, covered in sand or mud, suffered desert heat and jungle humidity and it just kept going. Damaged two lenses, both beyond repair, but the body took a lot of punishment and never once stopped functioning.

When I took early retirement in 2006 I treated it to a CLA and some major refurbishment. If the house was on fire I would grab this over my MP and possibly the wife!

Usually sporting either the Nokton 50/1.5 or the beautiful Elmar-M 50/2.8. But very compact with the Summicron-C 40/2.

[Tom A]

It looks amazingly good for a hard life! Only digital I would like on some of the M2's would be a small drive that would preserve "thumbnails" of all the pictures it had taken in it's life (until now - as it seems to have a lot of life left in it still!).

[maggieo]

It's here!!! Extra added bonus, my M2 and I are the same age!!! Wow!

Leicas, M2 & M8, March, 2010

[wgerrard]

Originally Posted by maggieo

It's here!!! Extra added bonus, my M2 and I are the same age!!! Wow!

Party time!

And, I didn't know Leica was still making M2's in 1984!

[visiondr]

I've always thought having an M2 or M3 produced on my birth year would be cool.

[coelacanth]

I'm still mildly thinking about getting my "birthday" Leica, but that will be an early M4-P. My M2 is close to my father's age.

[maggieo]

Originally Posted by wgerrard

Party time!

And, I didn't know Leica was still making M2's in 1984!

Heh!

You've just shaved twenty years off my age! Wow! I feel so fertile!

[mabelsound]

Originally Posted by wgerrard

Party time!

And, I didn't know Leica was still making M2's in 1984!

Well played, sir, well played.

Maggie, do you have any guitars your age? I've got a Fender Mustang that's 6 years older than I am, that's about as far back as I've ever been able to afford!

[helenhill]

Wooooohooooo Magpie...YEAH !!!!
Quite the Combo.... ENJOY