Which RAW processor for M8?

[eef]

Used Capture One with pleasure until I got Aperture, which allows me to do all photo related work in one app, from filing to printing. The prints look good to me. Am I really giving up quality for convenience?

[RichC]

Originally Posted by eef

Used Capture One with pleasure until I got Aperture, which allows me to do all photo related work in one app, from filing to printing. The prints look good to me. Am I really giving up quality for convenience?

Yup - but we're not talking shedloads, although it is noticeable, and of course also depends on how large you print. I always print at A3 (20 in.) or larger, often for competitions and exhibitions, so need to max. my print quality, and therefore use Capture One. A convenient workflow is of secondary importance to me.

Others will have different priorities to me, and if you're happy with the output from Aperture and you like its workflow, you should ask yourself whether the increase in quality from changing to Capture One is worth the trouble.

[mani]

One comment about C1 version 4 (or rather two related comments)

While detail is definitely superior to the other developers (I've extensively tested, as I know others have), I'm finding a couple of problems with the C1 color-rendering in side-by-side comparisons:

1. the colors seem occasionally over-saturated in the latest version
2. there is still a very, very slight tawniness to skintones that is less noticeable in the other apps, even when using IR cut filters

Some simple tweaking deals with the first problem, but the second problem I find more difficult to fix.

Still a great application, though the interface is less directly intuitive than Lightroom imo.

[adavis47]

So, people that are using C1 and then taking the file into LR or PS, are you exporting a tif image from C1, or ??? Thanks

[mani]

Just as an update - while reading through the thread I was reminded by one post of Iridient Raw Developer. I have a demo version on my computer, so I thought I'd give it a quick try again - in the past I've been somewhat exasperated by the rather primitive interface.

To my enormous surprise, the files showed (imo) truer color rendition than C1, without the problematic muddying of skintones in C1 (but also not the pastel tones of Lightroom), and also to my even greater surprise more detail rendition than C1!

I'll test this a bit more as soon as I have time, and I know that it's heresy to suggest such a thing, but I do think that maybe Raw Developer squeezes even more out of the M8 files than C1 does.

One definite downside: moiré artefacts were visible in some fabric that were absent in C1. Even Lightroom showed the moiré to a certain extent.

I'm gonna do some more intense testing before I decide on whether to switch to RD. In this case I'm glad they have a watermarked demo that allows for testing instead of a time-limited demo: if that had been the case, my chance of trying their product would have passed long ago.

[adavis47]

I'll going to chime in with mani here. I had Raw Developer a number of version ago and put it aside. Just downloaded latest and think initial results on a few images tonight were an improvement over LR.

[maggieo]

Originally Posted by Doug

Also there's some oddness over versions and what hardware is required. My M8 package included Capture One version 3.7, which I upgraded to 3.7.7. This was fine on my dual-G5 Mac tower running OSX Tiger. But it wouldn't run under OSX Leopard. Versions 4 and later will run under Leopard, but, per the website, specifically exclude any but Intel-based Macs.

Wow, that's weird, Doug. I've been running Capture One LE 3.7.7 and Capture One 4.8.1 on my Intel MacBook Pro with Leopard 10.5.7 with only the usual sort of software problems. (I need more memory and processor speed!!)

[maggieo]

A quick Capture One 4.8.1question: is there anyway to set the default color profile to something besides "Leica M8 Generic?" I usually use "Leica M8 Generic UV/IR" or a B&W profile and it's a drag to have to change that for every single file I process.

[JNewell]

I've been totally unable to get version 4.x to recognize the license key furnished with the camera.

[malland]

Originally Posted by eef

Used Capture One with pleasure until I got Aperture, which allows me to do all photo related work in one app, from filing to printing. The prints look good to me. Am I really giving up quality for convenience?

I also use Aperture with Silver Efex for B&W and with Viveza for color and, with the testing I've done have, not been able to see any superiority in C1 RAW development. However, I found that I prefered Aperture to ACR, which is used in Photoshop/Lightroom.

—Mitch/Paris
Scratching the Surface©

[Doug]

Originally Posted by maggieo

Wow, that's weird, Doug. I've been running Capture One LE 3.7.7 and Capture One 4.8.1 on my Intel MacBook Pro with Leopard 10.5.7 with only the usual sort of software problems. (I need more memory and processor speed!!)

Maggie, you have the proper combination of C1 4 + Intel Mac + Leopard = Good. On the other hand, I have the combination of C1 4 + NON-Intel Mac + Leopard = Not Supported. Weirdly, it works anyway.

Doug

[mani]

The last two evenings I've sat and gone through pretty much all my M8 images (still haven't taken so many), and my conclusion is definitely that Raw Developer extracts far, far more detail from the M8 files than C1. I'm actually super-excited still: I seriously feel like the application has given me the camera I hoped I was buying when I finally chose to get the M8. The files are visibly richer in detail, and (NB!) when I use the default DNG color profile in RawDev, the images are far truer than in C1.

RawDev is a true revelation to me - I'd completely written it off because of it's rather unattractive and slightly inconvenient interface. But the results are volumes better than the competition *IMHO*
A few images that I'd totally given up on after trying to fix them in C1, Lightroom and Aperture, were totally fine after some quick adjustments in RawDev.

Anyways, I know each of us is wedded to our own particular favorite apps, but if you're open to try something that admittedly does not match the ease-of-use and convenience of some of the big-name applications, I can genuinely recommend RD.

One extra thing - I metered memory use for C1 vs RD last night: not only is RD much snappier to open and process images, it also swallows a fraction in comparison with C1's memory hogging.

[malland]

Mani, interesting — would it be possible for you to post a couple of files showing the difference in detail between C1 and RAW Developer, since most people swear that C1 reveals more detail than other raw developers, although I have not seen this difference with regard to Aperture.

—Mitch/Paris
Scratching the Surface©

[mani]

Originally Posted by malland

Mani, interesting — would it be possible for you to post a couple of files showing the difference in detail between C1 and RAW Developer, since most people swear that C1 reveals more detail than other raw developers, although I have not seen this difference with regard to Aperture.

—Mitch/Paris
Scratching the Surface©

Hi Mitch

Well I took a couple of side-by-side screenshots of two *randomly chosen* images in each developer at 100% scaling and posted them on a thread at LCF - but before I link to them please be aware of the following conditionals:

- some of the detail I'm talking about is finer-grained than jpeg compression will properly display
- I made no attempt whatsoever to control the images so that they had the same contrast or sharpening: instead I left sharpening and other settings pretty much at default
- from the images I posted, some of the extra detail may appear to come from sharpening, but since I posted them I've seen masses of other examples where fine details (such as a hair blowing across someone's face five or seven meters from the camera) is clearly discernible in RawDev but totally absent at any setting in C1 (ALL noise suppression always off)

For me the files really DO look like film now. Before I was healthily sceptical. To say that I've fallen in love with a camera which I was only relatively lukewarm about before would be an understatement. For the time being I've saved a couple thousand dollars, as I was about to buy a chrome M6 to replace the camera I foolishly sold in the Spring - that particular urge has been postponed, at least.

Here are the crops anyway - naturally now I wish I'd chosen some better examples, but never mind.

Best,

Mani

[adavis47]

The quick look I took after Mani's post showed what he explains: the image had a concrete wall and the texture in RAW Developer image looked finer and more detailed. Thanks Mani for taking time to do this.

[mani]

Originally Posted by adavis47

The quick look I took after Mani's post showed what he explains: the image had a concrete wall and the texture in RAW Developer image looked finer and more detailed. Thanks Mani for taking time to do this.

No problem at all for me - thank the guy developing the application!

I have a feeling that if the relationship were to sour any more than it already has between Leica and Phase One, Leica would do well to discuss licensing with the Raw Developer company: I imagine a branded version of the app would then be hailed as the best by Leica aficionados, some of whom may use PhaseOne as a default... (as I did).

[Broughsup]

I could not get on with capture one at all, not even the latest version, so have junked it from my computer altogether and will stick with Adobe Elements 6 and CS3, particularilly like Bridge. Don

[Philippe D.]

I use Capture One too.
Just have to buy the Pro version to be fully satisfied.

[Saugmann]

After turning my back to the evil DSLR and having an M8 for less than a week I have noticed a few things concerning the raw converter. I used the product key that came with the camera to install Capture One 4 on my PC but I have to say the workflow in ACR is a lot easier (or maybe it is just a habit). However, the facts that C1 version 4 displays the f value is very helpful for newcomers to M8 and I have decided to make an effort to learn the program

Ole

[Saugmann]

After turning my back to the evil DSLR and having an M8 for less than a week I have noticed a few things concerning the raw converter. I used the product key that came with the camera to install Capture One 4 on my PC but I have to say the workflow in ACR is a lot easier (or maybe it is just a habit). However, the facts that C1 version 4 displays the f value is very helpful for newcomers to M8 and I have decided to make an effort to learn the program

Ole

[jaapv]

Well said, Ole, but might I suggest you leave the typographical controls of this forum at their default setting?

[Saugmann]

Thanks - will leave the control to the forum was just a little confused pasting the text from word
Ole

[biggambi]

Originally Posted by Doug

Maggie, you have the proper combination of C1 4 + Intel Mac + Leopard = Good. On the other hand, I have the combination of C1 4 + NON-Intel Mac + Leopard = Not Supported. Weirdly, it works anyway.

Doug

That is because all the gobbledygook that makes it a Mac is still there. The processor is just not as fast, your ram is probably smaller, and the video card is not as good with regard to your application. We are not talking earth shattering differences, but noticeable.

________________________

As for work flow, i am using Aperture - Nik Software Suite - AutoDesk Stitcher. I like the work flow, and I really like working in Aperture. I can not say enough good things about the Nik software programs. They really are nice to work with and they take Aperture to a higher level. The software that came with my camera was the Adobe Photoshop elements, so I do not have another reference. The Raw Developer seems to be accomplishing the same thing that I can get with Sharpener Pro, but I will down load it to compare. I am downloading C1 as I type, and I will compare that as well. I am really curious as to the differences. This is a great post - thanks b.espahbod.

[Doug]

Apple has always discouraged software developers from making direct "calls" to the hardware, advising always to go through the OS. Developers of games in particular have been "naughty" in ignoring this advice to gain an edge in performance, therefore it usually "breaks" with new or different hardware.

The language Phase One was using implied to me the likelihood they were in some way bypassing the OS and writing directly to the Intel processor. Evidently not, as their latest software runs fine on my dual IBM PowerPC G5 processor Mac (5.5Gb RAM). For now.

[kittyphoto]

Originally Posted by malland

Mani, interesting — would it be possible for you to post a couple of files showing the difference in detail between C1 and RAW Developer, since most people swear that C1 reveals more detail than other raw developers, although I have not seen this difference with regard to Aperture.

—Mitch/Paris
Scratching the Surface©

I used to compare Aperture and C1 a long time ago.
I like aperture because of the 3rd party plug-in, album printing etc.
The file quality is also much better than ACR or LR.
Try download M8 files the eagle head from Leica website.
You will see what I mean.
It seems Aperture has all everything at minimum price.
But there are a few things which I don't like Aperture.
1. Everytime Aperture develop portrait shots the specular highlight in the eyes always has green border around the white specular.
2. All raw files has been imported to filevault? Not sure I call it right. But it is very difficult to seperate each project and do backup. I don't like Aperture worksflow.

Aperture worksflow is the main reason I still use C1 Pro. I really wish I could move to Aperture. As you mention silvereffex and others 3rd party plugin is really good!