Graflex Super Speed Graphic - Questions

[cnewhall]

I have a question regarding a large format camera. Any info at all would really be appreciated! I know very little about these.

I just received an offer of a Graflex Super Speed Graphic for $25.00. It comes with a Rodenstock Optar 135. I guess the back of it came off and the owner is not sure what kind of latch it takes to put it back on. Is this worth the price he is asking? I would really think it is, but I can't find much info on these online, at least not price-wise.

[Spavinaw]

Does the lens have a shutter that goes to 1/1000. From the information you have given it seems it would. If so, and in good condition, the lens/shutter alone would be worth several times $25. It is the nicest of the Graphic press cameras. I have one myself.

[Gumby]

Take it... fast!

[cnewhall]

Is it hard to find parts for these? There doesn't seem to be much of anything on eBay, other than manuals.

[kuzano]

Originally Posted by cnewhall

Is it hard to find parts for these? There doesn't seem to be much of anything on eBay, other than manuals.

The man who acquired all remaining parts from Graflex when they ceased production is named Fred Lustig. Still working on these in his 80's, he put a nice clean used bellows on my Super Graphic a few months ago.

He lives in Reno, NV and is listed in the phone book although you can search him on the internet and get his mailing and phone address.

Very knowledgable and pleasant on the telephone. He was timely on my bellows install. No more new bellows and they are special because of the wiring inside the pleats, he apparently has good used stock.

[oftheherd]

Originally Posted by kuzano

The man who acquired all remaining parts from Graflex when they ceased production is named Fred Lustig. Still working on these in his 80's, he put a nice clean used bellows on my Super Graphic a few months ago.

He lives in Reno, NV and is listed in the phone book although you can search him on the internet and get his mailing and phone address.

Very knowledgable and pleasant on the telephone. He was timely on my bellows install. No more new bellows and they are special because of the wiring inside the pleats, he apparently has good used stock.

Wiring inside the pleats? Was that for stiffness only, or some other purpose?

[cnewhall]

Originally Posted by kuzano

The man who acquired all remaining parts from Graflex when they ceased production is named Fred Lustig. Still working on these in his 80's, he put a nice clean used bellows on my Super Graphic a few months ago.

He lives in Reno, NV and is listed in the phone book although you can search him on the internet and get his mailing and phone address.

Very knowledgable and pleasant on the telephone. He was timely on my bellows install. No more new bellows and they are special because of the wiring inside the pleats, he apparently has good used stock.

Thank you very much, that is very useful and good to know.

[oftheherd]

Originally Posted by Spavinaw

Does the lens have a shutter that goes to 1/1000. From the information you have given it seems it would. If so, and in good condition, the lens/shutter alone would be worth several times $25. It is the nicest of the Graphic press cameras. I have one myself.

Were there any leaf shutters that did? As to the price, as stated, the lens should be worth much more than that, and the camera should be repairable if need be at a reasonable price. It may just need a new back that can be purchased from a repairman or the 'net.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by oftheherd

Were there any leaf shutters that did?

Yes, one. That was the difference between a Super Graphic and Super Speed Graphic.

[buzzardkid]

look here and you will find the kind of back the camera has and all options available.

Enjoy!

[gdi]

Of course $25 is a steal for a Super Speed or Super Graphic. I received one a couple of weeks ago - a Super Speed with the 1/1000 Shuter and Optar - and considered it a great deal at $350.

I can't imagine it will be hard to find a new back - or repair the current one. I am new to these, but I have found that Fred Lustig in NV is the man for repairs and he just told me he could assemble new cameras from his NOS parts inventory (mine is on its way to him for some repairs to the RF). So parts are around...

[ethics_gradient]

$25 is basically theft for a Super Speed, I'd take it and run.

[cnewhall]

I'm kind of afraid to ask him, because he offered via email, if he meant $250.00 and not $25.00 (seems like a harder mistake to make if you actually put the decimal point in, right?). Would it still be worth $250, even with the back missing the latch?

I will get to see it in person before buying it because he lives about an hour away from me. But is it worth going up there if he really meant $250?

[gdi]

It depends on whether you really want one.

IMO, $250 is a good price if all it needs is a repair to the back. But I understand the Shutter is comparatively fragile on the S. Speed, so repairs may run more if it has seen any abuse or amateur repair attempts. Read up on these at graflex.org and you can get some tips for inspecting it.

[oftheherd]

Thanks gdi and Kuzano.

I had never heard that and didn't know that. Amazing to say the least. One just never knows what unusual thing may have been done in photography. I wonder how that has held up in general? I can imagine a lot of those wires have failed. But I guess it beat having wires hanging around the bellows, standard, and drop bed.

[gdi]

Originally Posted by oftheherd

Thanks gdi and Kuzano.

I had never heard that and didn't know that. Amazing to say the least. One just never knows what unusual thing may have been done in photography. I wonder how that has held up in general? I can imagine a lot of those wires have failed. But I guess it beat having wires hanging around the bellows, standard, and drop bed.

It is quite ingenious and, to me, it seems to work well. But there is no on/off switch so you need to use a bit of care if walking around with a sheet loaded and the slide out; it is very easy to accidentally bump the red button.

I have heard that the releases are mostly non-functional, but I have had 2 Supers and both worked just fine. But they take two fairly obscure batteries and the battery door is held on by the tension of the batteries against inner spring contacts. So if the batteries are removed, the cover cannot be in place - thus a lot of the cameras have lost their covers.

[kuzano]

Originally Posted by gdi

I have heard that the releases are mostly non-functional, but I have had 2 Supers and both worked just fine. But they take two fairly obscure batteries and the battery door is held on by the tension of the batteries against inner spring contacts. So if the batteries are removed, the cover cannot be in place - thus a lot of the cameras have lost their covers.

I've had two supers and one super speed that worked properly. The batteries are 22.5 volts each, and I last heard they were still available at Midwest Photo Exchange. I seem to recall that I once bought a battery cover from MPEX. I did also have one camera with a homemade battery cover. Not a difficult feat once you know how they attach.

The difference between a Super and a Super Speed is the special shutter on the front of the Super Speed with a big chrome cocking (charging) ring and rodenstock 135mm lens. These shutters were rated up to 1/1000, but it was often said that the highest real-time speed was very likely 1/800th on a properly serviced shutter. The shutter blades, according to some, are too large to reallly attain 1/1000.

The Super (not speed) usually had an Ektar 127 or an Optar 135 in a Graphex shutter rated up to 1/400th /4.7.

A proper front lens/board/cam arrangement would be a lens/shutter in one of the variations above. A special lens board would contain a tripping lever for the shutter. This board would have a silver trip at the bottom left, not seen from the front. The solenoid lay sideways in the bottom of the front standard. In addtion, each lens/board combination would come with it's own rangefinder cam for the proper focal length of the combo.

I only have one complete lens setup. It is a 105 lens with board and cam. Moderately wide angle for 4X5.

Again, great camera, but the one I have now had been stripped of many critical rangefinder and electronic parts. So, I stripped it on down, taking almost a pound off the weight. It still makes an excellent view (ground glass) camera, since the Super had more movements than previous Graflex Press cameras.

Fred Lustig indicated to me that when Toyo bought the tooling and rights to the Super Graphic from Graflex, they changed a lot of the mechanism switching to metric and debased the camera a bit.

You don't often see the Toyo variation and Toyo has no parts inventory that I was able to find.

As I said, my camera is stripped down since it was already beyond reasonable refitting and that makes it imminently more packable. I would be reluctant to modify a working example as they don't come up often in full working mode.

I'm not likely to handhold any 4X5 and I have great respect for those journalists who did pack these camera's around all day and in the field. They are real tanks, and highly efficient for the purpose for which they are intended.

[Spavinaw]

By the way, so far no one has mentioned that the wiring for the flash also runs through the bellows. There are two contacts at the top corners of the front standard that match two contacts on the back of the lens board. On the camera body the flash connector is at the lower right side. It has three holes. Check that there is continuity between the left and center holes and the contacts on the front standard. Not sure if the right hole has wiring to somewhere or is just for proper orientation of the connecting plug.

[cnewhall]

Here are two pictures of it that he sent me. He is giving it to me for free now. I really want to get it working and use it. Since the camera itself is not costing me anything, I will definitely invest the money into sending it to Fred Lustig and having him fix anything that is wrong with it.

[kuzano]

The separate piece with the ground glass should have two hooks at approximately the middle of each long side of the ground glass. Those hook under and slide into position to hold the GG portion of the back to the revolving portion of the back which is mounted to the camera. If you look on the other side of the separate piece you should see two chrome pieces that you push in on to extend the hooks on the front side to engage the hooks/pins in the revolving portion of the back. When mounted the back Ground Glass carrying portion operates much as a standard 4X5 using film holders slid under. When detached, the chrome sliding tabs engage Graflok type devices like roll film holders.

What you have there is a Graflex SUPER SPEED Graphic. The capitalized SPEED is due to the special 1000 speed shutter with the rodenstock lens you have on this camera. You turn the big chrome ring to cock the shutter (I think clockwise???)

While touted as the ultimate achievement of the breed, that special shutter/lens was not highly reliable.

However, I know that Fred knows the lens and shutter well and may be able to CLA it properly. Many however, don't really bother with this lens and shutter. I had one, and while in operable condition, it rarely achieved much over 1/500th of a second.

Good luck... that's certainly a great find, particularly for free.

[Gumby]

The spring arms appear to be missing. Finding a back is possible; I've seen them from time-to-time on ebay.

I doubt that even Lustig would overhaul that shutter. It would be better to find a 135 Optar/Graphex with Super board and replace it. The Super lens/shutter will look real nice on a shelf.

[kuzano]

Originally Posted by Gumby

The spring arms appear to be missing. Finding a back is possible; I've seen them from time-to-time on ebay.

I doubt that even Lustig would overhaul that shutter. It would be better to find a 135 Optar/Graphex with Super board and replace it. The Super lens/shutter will look real nice on a shelf.

I think you may be right on Fred's willingness to rebuild that particular shutter, but would hang onto it in any event. The suggestion on the 135 Optar/Graphex is well made.

I could not see the pic of the back well enough, but you may be right on the spring arms, and if so, I think the chrome buttons I mentioned on the back may also be missing. The camera can still be used for many types of Graflok devices, while looking for a working back. Also, that back is one thing Fred may have parts for and could certainly fix.

[gdi]

Originally Posted by Gumby

The spring arms appear to be missing. Finding a back is possible; I've seen them from time-to-time on ebay.

I doubt that even Lustig would overhaul that shutter. It would be better to find a 135 Optar/Graphex with Super board and replace it. The Super lens/shutter will look real nice on a shelf.

I think Fred can perform any repairs on the 1000 shutter - he told me he could and now has mine in hand. I believe he has all the parts. Of course I will be better able to judge after it returns.

But it is a good idea to have another lens, I think. I may try to find a 90, but it may be hard to find a board with the linkage.

As for the pics of the OP's camera - that looks pretty good to me, nice find!

[Gumby]

Until a back can be found... roll film backs!!!!!!!!

[Gumby]

Oh, yes... it wouldn't be surprising to hear that Fred could fix the back.