1930's film carton?

[David Hughes]

The title says it all.

I'd like to add a 30's film carton to the collection but don't know where to start looking and wondered if any one has one who would be willing to scan it.

I hope they can be opened out and then a scan done (twice) showing a side, top or bottom and the ends with tabs. Then the scans could be combined to make a print and some scissors and glue would produce a reasonable dummy carton.

What do you think? Anyone?

Regards, David

[Mr_Flibble]

Here's a Dutch website that has PDF files of 1930s and 40s film cartons:
http://www.huyser.net/DOD/

[David Hughes]

Many thanks, just what I wanted.

Regards, David

[David Hughes]

I spent last night making some of these up and might as well pass on some comments.

BTW, I printed on Epson Matte HWt paper, which is a one or two sheet card and just right for it.

It's important to check the printing mode "Epson Vivid" is not my cup of tea...

When the card is printed you'll see where the folds must go. I scored mine from behind with a steel rule and a blunt penknife. To position the scoring you need to look at the artwork carefully and mark trim lines for the scoring outside the art work on the front. Then I put a pin hole in each end of these trim lines to transfer the exact position to the back of the card. Then I turned it over and scored the rear with the blunt penknife and rule.

Getting the fold exact involved a lot of careful checking and measuring; they have to be parallel or else the box is a bit wonky.

Anyway, the result is some neat dummy Kodak and Agfa film boxes in 35mm size and 120 size for the old Rolleiflex.

BTW (2) has any one else any more links to similar websites?

BTW (3) I now wonder what a "daylight spool for loading into cassettes" is (Agfa) but elderly Agfa cassettes often have spools in them that don't quite fit and so I'm wondering what 2 and 2 to put together.

Regards, David

PS (Sorry) I'd like to add a picture to this text but don't know how, despite going round and round in circles with the FAQ's.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by David Hughes

I spent last night making some of these up and might as well pass on some comments.

BTW, I printed on Epson Matte HWt paper, which is a one or two sheet card and just right for it.

It's important to check the printing mode "Epson Vivid" is not my cup of tea...

When the card is printed you'll see where the folds must go. I scored mine from behind with a steel rule and a blunt penknife. To position the scoring you need to look at the artwork carefully and mark trim lines for the scoring outside the art work on the front. Then I put a pin hole in each end of these trim lines to transfer the exact position to the back of the card. Then I turned it over and scored the rear with the blunt penknife and rule.

Getting the fold exact involved a lot of careful checking and measuring; they have to be parallel or else the box is a bit wonky.

Anyway, the result is some neat dummy Kodak and Agfa film boxes in 35mm size and 120 size for the old Rolleiflex.

BTW (2) has any one else any more links to similar websites?

BTW (3) I now wonder what a "daylight spool for loading into cassettes" is (Agfa) but elderly Agfa cassettes often have spools in them that don't quite fit and so I'm wondering what 2 and 2 to put together.

Regards, David

PS (Sorry) I'd like to add a picture to this text but don't know how, despite going round and round in circles with the FAQ's.

Dear David,

Almost certainly, a centre spool with film and a black paper leader to protect it. Put film in cassette, leader protruding; pull out leader to get to film; cut/tear off leader; trim film; shoot.

To add pics, click on 'go advanced'. Open, then upload, the pics, following the instructions.

Cheers,

R.

[Mr_Flibble]

Definitely want to see the pictures!

I've been thinking about printing and cutting a few of these boxes myself, for living history purposes.

[David Hughes]

Thanks Roger and Mr Flibble for starting this; here we go...



probably the world's dearest paperweight and note how I've shown the white reflector in the frame.

Regards, David

[Mr_Flibble]

Nicely done David,

I doubt mine would turn out so tidy.
Would these boxes have held the aluminium screw-top canisters? I have a few of those lying around. Would make for an interesting display.

I've not found any other sites with this kind of photography related paperwork. You might find some on the Warco Yahoo group (it is linked in the previous link I posted).

LeicaTom has an original box of 35mm Agfa film from the 30s/40s in the last photo of one of his Leica IIIcK cameras in the appropriate topic in the LTM section.

[David Hughes]

Thanks; flattery will get you anywhere...

I wondered about the yellow screw top containers but they are too fat. Then remembered that film in those days usually came in a red paper wrapper with a silver foil backing and neatly folded. I've tried to duplicate it with one of the old Leica "B" cassettes and an Agfa one from that period but they are a little too short.

Then I remembered that there would be some instructions on thin paper with it, perhaps(?).

I just hope someone can add a little more to this thread...

Do you want a couple of jpg's to print the Super-XX (35mm) Data Sheet from, it's July 1949, or else a Panatomic-X roll film one from June 1946? Both in Englash, I'm afraid.

BTW, experiment with paper for the cut out film cartons. It will save your sanity!

Regards, David

[Mr_Flibble]

I've printed and cut over a 100 "Francs" worth of WW2 Paper "Invasion Money" for a game of Crown & Anchor in 1940s style. I'm way beyond insanity.


not the best image I've ever shot, but the Ixus V2 is over 8 years old now


The data sheets would be much appreciated.

[David Hughes]

Come the invasion and you'll be rich...

I've printed out the front and rears of the two Data Sheets and you'll find them at:

http://idrh.smugmug.com/Photography/...11959666_ZMq2d

The file names should explain it all. Look in "Photo Info" for them.

Print the sheets at 300 dpi and they should come out to 10½" by 8¼" which is the exact size of the originals. Look on Amazon and you might find original sets of loose leaf binders issued by Kodak full of them, for a price.

I'm looking forward to your photo's of the Kodak film cartons. Then for an encore you could do the Olympus OM1, OM2 and Pen F paper models. They are at:

http://www.olympus-global.com/en/fun...index.cfm?t=pc

Regards, David

[ZorkiKat]

Tried it too. Thanks for the links.

For the Kodak XX, I found a card stock which cracked a bit when folded. Its uncoated surface made the ink dyes look a bit faded. Both cracking and fading gave the box an aged look:



I made the Isochrom box for 120 too:



All the boxes together:



Someone ought to make a reproduction of the 1930s Kodachrome film box. It's one of the prettiest ever. An art-deco number designed by Walter Dorwin Teague (?).

[Mr_Flibble]

I've not gotten round to actually printing any yet, but I've got some 120 gram or thicker paper lying around. I hope my laserprinter can handle the thickness.

Looking good there Zorkikat! Faded and worn.

Thanks for the sheets, David.

[LeicaTom]

Here's a Box of Ilford H.P. 2 (factory repacked to H.P. 3) that I just found, dated May 1946, I also found a shelve case (non display case of 10 rolls) of 1946 dated Agfa film last month as well, I'm basiclly looking for 1945/46 issued stuff that goes well together with the IIIC K's in my collection.

I think I might have some original late 1940's Kodachrome boxes soon, I'll keep photographing them as I get them. ~ I'm trying to find boxes that have "for Leica" written on them, I know Agfa had a deal going with the factory so that early film for 35mm Leica was highly promoted, both in the States and in Germany.

Those repro boxes from online look really nice, good job David and ZorkiKat.

I've been trying to find some 1945/46 US Army "script" Occupation money, but it's has'nt turned up, I guess made for Bavaria? ~
The very first Leica cameras issued to the US Army were paid in Reichmarks, (at least as much as I know from May 1945 Leica factory bills I've seen) then after that I guess they were paid for in Occupation money?

Tom

PS: I'm not sure, but I think the RN code on that Ilford box stands for Royal Navy, so that film more than likely came from a military lot? ~ Civilian's were'nt really shooting alot of photos in 1945 England......I know that all the stocks were sold out to the forces.

[ZorkiKat]

Originally Posted by LeicaTom

I think I might have some original late 1940's Kodachrome boxes soon, I'll keep photographing them as I get them. ~ I'm trying to find boxes that have "for Leica" written on them, I know Agfa had a deal going with the factory so that early film for 35mm Leica was highly promoted, both in the States and in Germany.

Those repro boxes from online look really nice, good job David and ZorkiKat.



Tom

Thanks Tom.

I found this Dupont "Superior" Ad from 1941, published in "Minicam Photography". Two of the film boxes say "Leica".

[David Hughes]

Thanks folks, this is getting interesting isn't it? I find that these small items are almost impossible to find unless you are extremely lucky or very rich. I guess most of the cartons were discarded very quickly...

Having said that, I have been looking through the old magazines from the 40's and by 1942 in England it seems that film was very scarce and firms like Kodak were asking for salvaged spools, cartons and even backing paper. Here's an article about it (8/42)



Not the easiest to read as the magazine was printed on poor quality paper by then and there were reminders in it that shortages meant only subscribers got copies and there were none left over for sale.

On the equipment side, a lot of firms had little stock and were charging astronomical prices for it. For example things that were UKP 18 or 19 in 1939 were reaching UKP 40 to 45 and the Govt. eventually stepped in and made a price control order that restricted the resale price of photographic equipment to 1939 levels.

Not that there was any for sale as all the dealers were asking the public to send them their cameras for war work and promising a fair price for them! And what was on sale was restricted to priority Govt work and proof had to be supplied of the Govt contract and priority before hand.

Kodak and Ilford's adverts for film mostly said take care with it and remember the forces morale depends on pictures from home. They even published full page adverts saying how to load a film into a camera and not spoil it when doing so.

Edit: In those days a UK pound was worth about USD $4 or so.

I hope this is of some interest.

Tom, Could you possibly open out that Ilford carton and scan each side, please? I'd love to make a dummy of it.
TIA.

Regards, David

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by David Hughes

Tom, Could you possibly open out that Ilford carton and scan each side, please? I'd love to make a dummy of it.
TIA.

Regards, David

I really can't take the box apart or open it down, it was'nt a cheap box, it cost me a bit of money.......

I could try to scan each side if that would help, but the upper one side has a dent in it, (you can see in photos).

Tom

[David Hughes]

Originally Posted by LeicaTom

I really can't take the box apart or open it down, it was'nt a cheap box, it cost me a bit of money.......

I could try to scan each side if that would help, but the upper one side has a dent in it, (you can see in photos).

Tom

Don't worry, I wouldn't want it damaged; I know what they cost the hard way, too (sigh).

And don't risk damage by scanning either, it's too nice to risk.

Regards, David

[LeicaTom]

Originally Posted by ZorkiKat

Thanks Tom.

I found this Dupont "Superior" Ad from 1941, published in "Minicam Photography". Two of the film boxes say "Leica".

aHHH good another WW2 era "Leica" box, very interesting, wonder what colors they were?

Tom

[ZorkiKat]

Originally Posted by LeicaTom

aHHH good another WW2 era "Leica" box, very interesting, wonder what colors they were?

Tom

Tom, the ad was in monochrome. The illustrations were more like drawings of the originals. Anyone know what colours Dupont used?

[LeicaTom]

Here's the auction shots of the last box I missed on evilbay.......






This was a AGFA USA issue box, in English, it does have Leica printed on the box and would have been perfect for all those owners of Leica IIIa's and IIIb's 1939/40 era.

I have a 35MM Bulk Tin of the same film, what I'm looking for now is the German version of this box ca. 1943/45 stamped.

Well, I thought this would be nice to assist folks to see what these at least looked like etc.

Tom

[buzzardkid]

Great thread, I see what I can add to it.

For now, only this:

These have Kodak film, Gevaert, A Perutz can, an Agfa can, two of the Kodak film cans are still tape sealed. The film cartridges shown are really heavy!

I bought an eBay lot with expired film some time ago. None of the 35mm films have boxes (most have cans) but most of the 120 films do have their boxes and I'll put shots up from those!

[David Hughes]

It is nice to start a thread and find it gets better and better. I do feel smug ;-) And thanks to you all for the pictures.

Anyway, last night I went through all the magazines and books I had from 1935 to the mid 40's and found just two pictures of film cartons. One couldn't be scanned as it was in the centre of a hardback book and curved a lot. It showed Dufaycolor film and the word "Leica" was very prominent on the side of the box etc. Even more interesting were the words "Sensitised by Ilford Ltd, London".

Here's the other advert showing an Ilford film advert;



Regards, David

[buzzardkid]

I have a stack of magazines of the 1930s and 1940s as well, I'll see what I can come up with.

Slightly OT question: I also shoot a wartime FED-S and am interested at Russian brands of the time. Would be really nice to have a non-western box in here, but even knowing what film the Russians used in the 1930s and 1940s would cut it for me

[ZorkiKat]

Originally Posted by CLE-RF

I have a stack of magazines of the 1930s and 1940s as well, I'll see what I can come up with.

Slightly OT question: I also shoot a wartime FED-S and am interested at Russian brands of the time. Would be really nice to have a non-western box in here, but even knowing what film the Russians used in the 1930s and 1940s would cut it for me

I'd be interested in those too. And as curious as you are.

BUT, if a deduction can be made from the existing camera literature, the Soviet photographers at that time may have been cutting their film from long rolls and spooled their cassettes with this. So the packaging that may exist could be of long rolls and perhaps not individual boxes.