Can I Make Money With Photography?

[Bike Tourist]

For many years I have been augmenting my retirement income with microstock sales. I have noticed every now and then that people on RFF will ask if it is practical to use their photography to add to their income, possibly to help finance their hobby. Here is the most honest and comprehensive article I have read recently that should answer that question:

http://www.johnlund.com/2010/03/jim-...-of-stock.html

For some time, I have thought that stock photography, like music and writing, was going to diminish as electronic media keep driving the prices for arts-based services down and down. Jim Pickerell seems to agree.

[Pickett Wilson]

An honest, realistic assessment. Some people are making a living with photography in general still. But, that standard of living probably isn't what most folks would want. As for stock photography, it's been on it's way out for years. Things change.

[Lulu Rosenkrantz]

You can't, but I can.

[tom.w.bn]

I don't earn money with photography but I am a user of microstock photos. Because they are so cheap now I can use microstock stuff to pimp up my internal presentations to sell my ideas better. That's only possible because my department pays 1-2 EUR for one small web sized photo. The low prize is good for us as a user, but I can't imagine how someone can make a living from that.
But times change. One part of my family has a strong farming background. 30-20 years ago all of them were full time farmers. Now the children who took over the farms are only part time farmers and they need another job to make a living. Probably it was hard, but they adapted to changing situations.

[Avotius]

Stock photography takes a lot of energy to do I found. I decided my heart was not in it when I saw the returns compared to how much money I could make doing other things.

Actually for the most part, I found my heart not in photography much anymore after doing a few years work in it and now just shoot the odd commercial assignment to supplement the two other jobs I have.

The problem really is the drive and motivation to keep with it even after some slow times. I wish you luck with yours.

I have a friend right now who shoots stock photos in England to get a little money but she shoots mostly nude female body parts so that may be a different idea as well

[mh2000]

when I was freelance... I reached this same conclusion... made more money on more enjoyable commercial art projects... then I just got a real job for money and went back to fineart photography and rediscovered my passion for photography... and when I have my stuff in a show, no matter how small, or not selling, it doesn't matter.

A friend of mine is going into fetish photography... apparently that is big now... if that was just my kink, I can see how it would be fun and *rewarding*... but cameras and sex don't do it for me... memories are always so much more forgiving.

Originally Posted by Avotius

Stock photography takes a lot of energy to do I found. I decided my heart was not in it when I saw the returns compared to how much money I could make doing other things.

Actually for the most part, I found my heart not in photography much anymore after doing a few years work in it and now just shoot the odd commercial assignment to supplement the two other jobs I have.

The problem really is the drive and motivation to keep with it even after some slow times. I wish you luck with yours.

I have a friend right now who shoots stock photos in England to get a little money but she shoots mostly nude female body parts so that may be a different idea as well

[FrankS]

The best way to make a small fortune in either photography or farming, is to start with a large fortune.

[Bike Tourist]

Originally Posted by FrankS

The best way to make a small fortune in either photography or farming, is to start with a large fortune.

That's a good way, Frank. Here's another: Sell your equipment!

[kuzano]

Originally Posted by FrankS

The best way to make a small fortune in either photography or farming, is to start with a large fortune.

Start with a large fortune that, as it dwindles down, will still be considered a large fortune for some time.

It's much like the book on "How to Become A Millionaire"...

Page 1.... First, get a million dollars.....

As far as the topic goes, I am a firm believer that marketing properly is the key to making money in any profession. I have some good friends in the art gallery trade and know a few photographers striving to make income.

My consensus is that artists and photographers in general are terrible at marketing, but not willing to part with the percentages that agents and galleries take.

So to keep their income all to themselves the rule that applies is that 100% of very little is still very little. And while it's agonizing to some to share with agents and galleries, 50% of something could actually be 2-300% of 100% of very little.

(Sorry, did someone complain about vague income figures?)

But the fact truly is that with little or poor marketing, success is hard to attain without connections and wonderful accidents.

[Al Patterson]

Originally Posted by FrankS

The best way to make a small fortune in either photography or farming, is to start with a large fortune.

I've hear this said about owning a railroad or an airline as well...

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by Al Patterson

I've hear this said about owning a railroad or an airline as well...

Dear Al,

I first heard it of publishing...

Cheers,

R.

[djonesii]

Originally Posted by Al Patterson

I've hear this said about owning a railroad or an airline as well...

And in the oil business as well!

[FrankS]

... or sell the farm.

[robert blu]

It seems me that many photographer, with an outstanding reputation worldwide, have a collateral activity like teaching photography. This let me think that it is not so easy to make money just with photography ...
rob

[FrankS]

I'm not sure why anyone would you really want to do photography as a job anyway. It's more enjoyable when you don't have to photograph what and how others tell you to. You'd have to be young and intense and dedicate your life to this and forsake meaningful long term relationships.

[emraphoto]

Originally Posted by FrankS

I'm not sure why anyone would you really want to do photography as a job anyway. It's more enjoyable when you don't have to photograph what and how others tell you to. You'd have to be young and intense and dedicate your life to this and forsake meaningful long term relationships.

actually Frank my wife is one of my biggest assets. she pushes me when i need pushing. she tells me to forget it when i am chasing ghosts. she packages things, organizes, fundraises and handles my biz when i am off the grid.

your point about "why without 110% dedication" is VERY valid. my wife often tells me i am crazy but then the next day comes with me all over town packaging up work to entice some unsuspecting group with $.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Originally Posted by FrankS

I'm not sure why anyone would you really want to do photography as a job anyway. It's more enjoyable when you don't have to photograph what and how others tell you to. You'd have to be young and intense and dedicate your life to this and forsake meaningful long term relationships.

Because I'd rather shoot myself than work at walmart, which is the only 'real job' left in America.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

Walmart actually pays pretty well, graphic designers make about 75k, full time staff ad photographers, about the same with benefits. Walmart maintains a huge video, and graphics production facility for training. Not that I am suggesting anyone work for Wally, but they pay.

When I say 'work for walmart' I am talking about the realistic jobs that walmart offers, the ones that 95% of their employees have that pay $8 an hour.

The graphic design and photo jobs you mention are few in number and likely occupied by people who will leave them when they die. It has probably been years since they've hired anyone and when they do the job goes to the boss's brother's girlfriend's sister's boyfriend.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

Not suggesting you take a job selling cameras!!

A search of creative jobs at Walmart currently, only shows openings for architects. They seem to contract much of their branding and creative work to agencies.

Pure 9-5 photography jobs are not easy to find, never have been, the vast majority of those I am aware of, have been catalog work.

Then why suggest that people at Walmart make $75,000 a year doing graphics work? That's why I pointed out, as you just admitted, that those jobs are basically impossible to get. Working at walmart for most means making $8 an hour. Not just selling cameras, but running the photo lab, cashiering, stocking shelves, installing tires in the auto center, etc. The only people in a Walmart store who make living wages are the managers and the pharmacists.

[Livesteamer]

I know one fellow making good money as a photographer. He has an old motorhome parked at the local drag strip with a computer and several printers. He cruises around on a golf cart with a G10 and some dslr's with longer lenses. He takes lots of photos of the cars and drivers and sells 8x10 prints for $15.00 each. It is a weekend job and he has other jobs during the week but he is making money. Joe

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

I stand corrected...
It turns out, when I did research just now, that graphic designers and photographers, who work on Walmart branding and campaigns, work for outside agencies. So if you want to work for Walmart, in a creative way, you have to work for a company who works for Walmart. Walmart seems to build their own buildings, but not design their own branding?

I am not sure why you are so fixated on entry level jobs at Wally. I have never thought they served the American worker well, but lets be frank here. Few people with advanced degrees are applying for 8 dollar an hour retail jobs, even in the midst of a recession, if they can avoid it.

I never however look down on anyone doing honest hard work, Walmart sales associates included! I have worked for less than $8 an hour, but what worries me was that was 25 years ago! No one should be earning that today.

Most creatives are more likely to be underemployed, finding fewer freelance hours, or moving endlessly from one agency to another following work. At least this is what my friends are doing.

Times are indeed very scary. And as some of our professional RFF members have pointed out, jobs for professionals are VERY hard to find.

But creative people do find jobs. 35k is certainly more realistic, if you have no corporate work history, for creative jobs.

I'm 'fixated' on low wage retail jobs because THAT'S ALL THERE IS outside NYC. In most parts of the US, people with art degrees have trouble getting ANYONE to hire them at any pay level. That's why I have not had a job since graduating a decade ago (except a few months at a camera store in santa fe, which I left cause I made more money freelancing there) and why most of my classmates never found jobs.

[Al Patterson]

Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto

Because I'd rather shoot myself than work at walmart, which is the only 'real job' left in America.

Nah, I work at the local Amazon warehouse. We work harder than a WallyMart, for about the same pay...

That said, it does seem that most of the jobs remaining in the USA are retail or some sort.

(I pick books off of shelves and load them onto library carts to deliver them to the sort line)

[Al Patterson]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

And here are the questions I asked myself when I was lugging sheetrock up 5 flights of stairs, when I first came to NYC. Was I having fun joking with my buddies, while I worked? Was the work something I was OK with?

I can't answer your question,s but I did take the job at Amazon since my contacts in the IT industry seem to indicate that the number of contracting and full time positions is shrinking, and bills need to be paid.

Besides, 40 hours a week walking around a warehouse at a fairly brisk pace has left me about 20 pounds lighter than when I started in November...

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by FrankS

I'm not sure why anyone would you really want to do photography as a job anyway. It's more enjoyable when you don't have to photograph what and how others tell you to. You'd have to be young and intense and dedicate your life to this and forsake meaningful long term relationships.

Dear Frank,

Not necessarily.

You just have to be prepared to live on very little.

I've met surprisingly many people who do it, especially at Arles. Some are in stable, long-term relationships.

Cheers,

R.

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Dear Frank,

Not necessarily.

You just have to be prepared to live on very little.

I've met surprisingly many people who do it, especially at Arles. Some are in stable, long-term relationships.

Cheers,

R.

That's harder in the USA. Remember that we have NO social safety net for young men who cannot make enough to live, and women here largely still expect men to support them, especially in the more culturally backward parts of the USA (anywhere in between the east coast states and the west coast states!)