Adobe; that does it!

Spoks · 02-21-2010

We Europeans are furious at Adobe. The company has just run a C4 campaign directed only at American and Canadian customers selling a SC4 for only $ 299,00.

See link: https://store4.adobe.com/cfusion/sto...PhotoshopOffer

While we Europeans must pay $ 1,100 - 1,200 (ex VAT):

https://store5.adobe.com/cfusion/sto...ionMethod=FULL

The official explanation is that 'Europeans earn more and are more willing to pay'. - Particularly the last, is an argument for that Europeans should pay less than Americans.

Adobe seems to have missed the force of Internet and how customers on both sides of the Atlantic and elsewhere, plan their purchases by searching the Net for bargains. Not the least what items costs in other countries. Adobe practises an unfair price practice that will motivate us Europeans to look at alternatives. It also reminds us that the Adobe CS4 is all too expensive.

Pickett Wilson · 02-21-2010

Uh, $299 is the upgrade price (what you linked to), not the regular full version price. Your link shows you paying about $320 for the upgrade.

gyuribacsi · 02-21-2010

@spoks
I´ve just got offered CS4 for the half price by adobe. That means € 450,- (ex VAT) and not € 900,- as regular. Well, I´ll take the advantage. I´m located in Germany

George

Olsen · 02-21-2010

Adobe CS4 is regarded as 'very expensive' here in Norway and just 'everybody' are looking for bargains. Most likely, the Adobe PS products, are the most illegally copied software around. An upgrade from CS to CS4 costs NOK 2.350 ex VAT ($ 400). Which means that ordinary consumers must pay NOK 2.938 VAT ($ 500,00) included here in Norway. Thus; the net price ex VAT is important to us. Canon and Nikon - most often, sells their products slightly cheaper in countries with a high VAT, while charging a higher price in USA and tax free havens like Singapore, Hong Kong etc.

Adobe should do the same.

Olsen · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by gyuribacsi

@spoks
I´ve just got offered CS4 for the half price by adobe. That means € 450,- (ex VAT) and not € 900,- as regular. Well, I´ll take the advantage. I´m located in Germany

George

Where was this? I am going to Kiel next weekend. I know there is a large photo store there.

mgd711 · 02-21-2010

I had a similar discussion with Andrew Rodney when LR2 was released, basically he told me to get lost and go and use somebody else’s product.

Adobe has some old agreement with marketing and distribution etc... and that does effect there pricing but they seem to be doing nothing to normalize there prices globally and actually encourage people to use legal software.

Jamie123 · 02-21-2010

I'm sure CS5 will come out soon and when that happens you'll probably be able to get CS4 for less.

Pickett Wilson · 02-21-2010

The full version of Adobe's products are expensive. No getting around it. But I have to say having used Photoshop, Illustrator, Pagemaker, now Indesign and Dreamweaver since their beginnings, of all the software I've owned, they have given me the most value for the money. But, I've used them professionally all these years, so it's an equation that makes sense. Like $7,000 cameras, Adobe's products are not for everyone, but everyone wants them.

Chriscrawfordphoto · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickett Wilson

The full version of Adobe's products are expensive. No getting around it. But I have to say having used Photoshop, Illustrator, Pagemaker, now Indesign and Dreamweaver since their beginnings, of all the software I've owned, they have given me the most value for the money. But, I've used them professionally all these years, so it's an equation that makes sense. Like $7,000 cameras, Adobe's products are not for everyone, but everyone wants them.

I agree. I use Photoshop, InDesign, and Dreamweaver almost daily and I use Illustrator less often. There's nothing that even comes close to any of them.

The alternatives are non-existent for Illustrator. Adobe bought Macromedia and killed the only good alternative to Illustrator (Freehand).

GoLive was the only real pro web design software to compete with Dreamweaver, and it wasn't as good. It was an Adobe product and they killed it in favor of DW when they bought Macromedia.

QuarkXpress is overpriced and buggy, and the only alternative to Adobe's InDesign, which is the best layout software I've ever used.

Photoshop's alternatives are all badly hobbled by problems that simply make then unusable for professional work. GIMP doesn't support color management or 16 bit layers. PS Elements doesn't have curves or full 16 bit suport. Paint Shop Pro didn't have 16 bit support last time I looked at it and isnt available for Mac.

They can charge what they do because, simply put, they're the only game in town. Still, the whole CS4 suite is cheaper than a good digital SLR. This to me is like people here with thousands of dollars in Leicas and Hasselblads and such who want a $159 scanner for film because they're too tightfisted to buy a good film scanner. The argument that you (Jim) and I are pros who can justify it while the others are amateurs doesn't hold up with amateurs here who have 3 MP bodies and 5 new Leica ASPH lenses. That stuff's expensive and beyond what an amateur needs (and costs more than most pros can afford!), but they have it! LOL

Proteus617 · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto

Photoshop's alternatives are all badly hobbled by problems that simply make then unusable for professional work. GIMP doesn't support color management or 16 bit layers.

Chris-
The GEGL framework was implemented in Gimp 2.6. Support for color management is improving and 16 bit is on the way.

Jamie123 · 02-21-2010

By the way, do you have anyone in your family that is still in school? I can get Photoshop CS4 Extended as a student edition for €170.-.

martin s · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie123

By the way, do you have anyone in your family that is still in school? I can get Photoshop CS4 Extended as a student edition for €170.-.

How is this any different than pirating the product?

martin

Chriscrawfordphoto · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin s

How is this any different than pirating the product?

martin

It is pirating because it violates the user agreement. To buy student editions, the students have to give their name, social security number (in the USA) and address. Adobe can track down the student if they catch someone not a student or former student using it. Its not worth getting your relatives sued.

Jamie123 · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin s

How is this any different than pirating the product?

martin

I'm not talking about asking your third cousin who's in middle school to buy a version of photoshop for you but I think if it's someone who lives in the same household it's fair game.

Chriscrawfordphoto · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie123

I'm not talking about asking your third cousin who's in middle school to buy a version of photoshop for you but I think if it's someone who lives in the same household it's fair game.

No, its not. The agreement they make the student sign in blood when he/she buys it clearly says that it is for the student's use only. I know because I bought Lightroom this way for myself; I am a graduate student. Considering all the documentation and personal info I had to give adobe, plus the blood and semen samples, just to buy this I would not take the risk of being sued and having my life ruined to help a family member. Even if I had a family worth helping.

rover · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto

No, its not. The agreement they make the student sign in blood when he/she buys it clearly says that it is for the student's use only. I know because I bought Lightroom this way for myself; I am a graduate student. Considering all the documentation and personal info I had to give adobe, plus the blood and semen samples, just to buy this I would not take the risk of being sued and having my life ruined to help a family member. Even if I had a family worth helping.

Oh, and when my wife was a graduate student I purchased the full Adobe CS1 suite, all the programs, everything, for $150. Chris is right, they asked for lots of info, but it ran for me just as well as it ran for her.

martin s · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie123

I'm not talking about asking your third cousin who's in middle school to buy a version of photoshop for you but I think if it's someone who lives in the same household it's fair game.

It is absolutely not, take a second and think about it. It's intended to be used by a student, which is the reason why the charge you less for it. Living in the same building with a student is not what this offer is about.

martin

Jamie123 · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by martin s

It is absolutely not, take a second and think about it. It's intended to be used by a student, which is the reason why the charge you less for it. Living in the same building with a student is not what this offer is about.

martin

I would assume that using the same computer is enough to justify using the same program.

But whatever, maybe it's not. I'm a graduate student myself so I always look at the student prices.

rover · 02-21-2010

6 months ago, as an Adobe PSE registered user I was offered the full version of CS4 for $299. I jumped on the offer and now am using CS4 exclusively. This was an offer to registered customers though (in the US only? I don't know.) and not the cost of the product off the shelf.

Pickett Wilson · 02-21-2010

I tend to support companies whose software is closely connected to my livelihood. Which is why I don't complain about Adobe's pricing. I do find some company's insistence that they are losing millions of dollars to software theft a little hard to understand, though. People who steal software are unlikely to have bought it, anyway. So it's not really a loss. It is more an ethical issue (as is using Student priced software when you aren't a student) for those who steal it.

And I can't imagine a photographer who worries about his ownership of copyrights to his photos ever using stolen software.

Having said that, beyond the ethical aspect, it's just stupid to use stolen software commercially or professionally.

Spoks · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pickett Wilson

I tend to support companies whose software is closely connected to my livelihood. Which is why I don't complain about Adobe's pricing. I do find some company's insistence that they are losing millions of dollars to software theft a little hard to understand, though. People who steal software are unlikely to have bought it, anyway. So it's not really a loss. It is more an ethical issue (as is using Student priced software when you aren't a student) for those who steal it.

And I can't imagine a photographer who worries about his ownership of copyrights to his photos ever using stolen software.

Having said that, beyond the ethical aspect, it's just stupid to use stolen software commercially or professionally.

Sure, you have little reason to complain about Adobe pricing. Since you are an American. Adobe's European customers are subsidising American customers! Disregard me comparing the US upgrade price with full version here in Europe. It is still far more expensive to upgrade here in Europe. This, according to Adobe's official explanation; Europeans are better paid (?) and more reliable creditors (!).

I can assure you that not many CEO's (presidents, stockbrokers etc.) here in Europe earn as much as
their American equals.

It is us, the Europeans, that have all the reason to complain about the fact that we are treated differently by Adobe. Because we are more reliable customers!

Scandal!

Olsen · 02-21-2010

....and excluding Quebec!

Never mind that Adobe are up-pricing their products here in Europe. After all, we Europeans are soft on Iran (yet another Middle East oil producer with 'weapons of mass destruction'..) and want to pull out of Afganistan. We must be punished for that.

But the quebecans, what have they done wrong....?

Jamie123 · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olsen

But the quebecans, what have they done wrong....?

They speak french.

Olsen · 02-21-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie123

They speak french.

.......que....?

migtex · 02-21-2010

Ok if you are furious just buy Photobrush it cost 45 USD and does all you may need.
I don't use CS4 (or any CS for that matter) so no worry about CS4 prices.
BTW american companies (or Japanese) finance their operations in Europe with a markup, since this region does not have that much cameras or image software companies (Leica or DxO are the exceptions to my little knowledge, and who's fault is it?!) we end up paying more. The value of the Euro against the dollar does not help either since they look us as rich people since we always paid more (plus 20% VAT).