Pouring developer and stop down the drain

[kywong]

I did a fair bit of research before going out to buy chemicals to start developing film for the first time. From what I've read, it is okay to pour the developer and stop bath down the drain. However, the guy at the store is adamant that it is not.

So... is it okay to pour my developer and stop down the drain?

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by kywong

I did a fair bit of research before going out to buy chemicals to start developing film for the first time. From what I've read, it is okay to pour the developer and stop bath down the drain. However, the guy at the store is adamant that it is not.

So... is it okay to pour my developer and stop down the drain?

This has been asked and answered repeatedly on RFF, and it's also available via Google search, so I'm not sure what your 'fair bit of research' consists of.

In general, it is NOT OK to pour used photo chemistry down the drain. However, a lot depends on where you live as to whether or not it is legal.

Check the city and county where you live. Some have this information online, some require you to call them. I've lived in places where they didn't even know themselves, since nobody ever asks (which presumes that most people do indeed pour it down the drain).

Kodak has extensive information about proper disposal of photo chemistry, why you should not pour it down the drain, and how to properly dispose of it.

It is also known to be bad for septic systems if you are not connected to municipal sewage systems.

I have posted numerous links in previous posts. Forgive me, but I'm not going to go find them. Please do so yourself.

[kywong]

Originally Posted by bmattock

This has been asked and answered repeatedly on RFF, and it's also available via Google search, so I'm not sure what your 'fair bit of research' consists of.

......

Forgive me, but I'm not going to go find them. Please do so yourself.

Wow okay I didn't expect so many replies already. Got told off right off the bat too, thanks for that. I guess I wasn't clear enough that my "fair bit of research" was not specifically about pouring stuff down the drain, but rather, the developing process. It didn't occur to me that pouring stuff down the drain is an issue until I was told in three different videos not to pour the fixer down the drain, but developer and stop would be okay, so I just took that information and didn't look into it any further. It wasn't until I was told by the guy at the shop not to did I start wondering if I should.

I did google it, forgive me for that it wasn't an exhaustive research, normally 10 minutes would do the trick for most one lined questions, but I guess I misjudged the complexity of the question. Yes, I should've searched the forum too, but I didn't, partly cos' I thought anything here would pop up in google, partly cos' I thought it was a straightforward question. This is only the first time I started a thread rather than spend a fair bit of time to do my own research, do I have to be so cautious around here?

Really, thanks for the helpful information, I'll veer on the cautious side and not dump it down the drain, but there is no need to be hostile yes?

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by kywong

Really, thanks for the helpful information, I'll veer on the cautious side and not dump it down the drain, but there is no need to be hostile yes?

Yes, there is no need to be hostile. I'm not. People just think I am. I keep forgetting to make smiley face emoticons at the end of my sentences.

[BillBingham2]

Are you on a municipal sewer system then the odds are yes. In a large population dilution will take care of it fine. If you were doing it on the level of a lab then no, follow the instructions for taking care of it.

I'm sure by doing it some one will say you've killed a sewer rat or two but bathroom cleaners are a whole lot worse.

B2 (;->

[Dave Wilkinson]

I pour it away along the bottom of my shed walls - it seems to make a good weed killer!
Dave.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Dave Wilkinson

I pour it away along the bottom of my shed walls - it seems to make a good weed killer!
Dave.

That Greenpeace SWAT team is speeding along the M62 as I type

[Dave Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

That Greenpeace SWAT team is speeding along the M62 as I type

have you tried 'speeding' along the M62 - on a Friday afternoon lately?

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by Dave Wilkinson

have you tried 'speeding' along the M62 - on a Friday afternoon lately?

I find it hard to believe people head towards Hull for the weekend!

Of course Greenpeace will have to stop and recharge the van at Drax so you’ll be OK for a bit

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by Dave Wilkinson

I pour it away along the bottom of my shed walls - it seems to make a good weed killer!
Dave.

No worries about the environment then, eh?

This topic always amazes me. RFF is rife with save-the-squirrels types, who refuse to eat meat or wear leather and hug lots of trees. But when it comes to film, well, they use it (made from boiled horse's hooves and bones) and they pour the chemicals wherever they damned well please, no matter what it might do to the environment or what the local laws on the matter might be.

And then they whinge about how the USA is breaking the planet with global warming.

Irony. I savor it.

[Dave Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by bmattock

No worries about the environment then, eh?

This topic always amazes me. RFF is rife with save-the-squirrels types, who refuse to eat meat or wear leather and hug lots of trees. But when it comes to film, well, they use it (made from boiled horse's hooves and bones) and they pour the chemicals wherever they damned well please, no matter what it might do to the environment or what the local laws on the matter might be.

And then they whinge about how the USA is breaking the planet with global warming.

Irony. I savor it.

Nah! - I shot one of your grey squirrels, in my yard last week , but not our red ones - they're scarce! - I was polluting the air with my pipe smoke while waiting for a steak to grill!....and global warming?...Ill be able to sleep naked - on a winter night!
Dave.

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by BillBingham2

Are you on a municipal sewer system then the odds are yes. In a large population dilution will take care of it fine. If you were doing it on the level of a lab then no, follow the instructions for taking care of it.

I'm sure by doing it some one will say you've killed a sewer rat or two but bathroom cleaners are a whole lot worse.

B2 (;->

OK, I didn't want to go looking for it, but here's the link to Kodak's advice on the matter:

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQueri...q-locale=en_US

Most photographic processing effluents and wash waters contain chemicals that are biodegradable. They are, therefore, compatible with aerobic (with oxygen) biological treatment systems and are effectively treated when sent to an efficient sewage treatment facility. Permission from the local treatment authority may be needed (a written consent or permit is usually needed and limits what can and can't be discharge). Contact your local authorities to see if you need consent and to determine local discharge limits.
Kodak strongly recommends that you never pour silver-bearing effluents such as used fixers, bleach-fix or stabilizers down the drain. Rather you should use on-site or off-site silver recovery.

Emphasis mine in the quote above.

My suggestion remains contacting your own local authority and finding out what they say about it, as opposed to pouring it down the drain without finding out first.

[Roger Hicks]

Many local authority guidelines are formulated by non-scientists, which is why some are so unrealistically stringent. My favourite is that silver is a poisonous heavy metal, because (a) it's heavy and (b) it's a metal: minor considerations about reactivity are not allowed into the equation.

I once did a little light research on the poisoning of enzymes by heavy metals (by which I mean I tried to poison enzymes with heavy metals) and while, for example, cadmium is pretty bad news, silver ain't. This was decades ago but all the proper reseach I have read by far more skilled scientists bears out my limited conclusion.

If photographic chemicals were as dangerous as some people seem to believe, we'd all have died years ago.

Silver is the only component where there's any realistic danger, and even then, it's not that big a risk: read the CDC warnings about silver, and then do a bit of Googling about how quickly silver from fixer is locked away after it has gone down the drain.

Cheers,

R.

[mfunnell]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

I once did a little light research on the poisoning of enzymes by heavy metals (by which I mean I tried to poison enzymes with heavy metals)

Actual experiments What a very old-fashioned way of thinking Much better to look it up, from some source of "advocacy statistics" or run it through a "computer model" which produces whatever result you desire, regardless of input.

It's the modern way, you know. So get with the program!

...Mike

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Many local authority guidelines are formulated by non-scientists, which is why some are so unrealistically stringent. My favourite is that silver is a poisonous heavy metal, because (a) it's heavy and (b) it's a metal: minor considerations about reactivity are not allowed into the equation.

Despite the fact that I agree most authorities are dolts (I actually believe most people are dolts, present company excepted), I tend to also believe that living in a society implies adhering to the rules of that society. So finding out what the rules are and then following them is actually something I consider a good thing.


The world is full of scoff-laws of all sorts. Justified and unjustified. They run stop signs, refuse to pull over for emergency vehicles, double-park, and steal library books. I suppose the world will not grind to a halt because people refuse to obey the rules that we as humans have set up for ourselves.

However, I can't help but note the irony, if not outright hypocrisy, of those who shout and scream about the environment and then do the opposite because they don't believe the rules apply to them or that they were incorrectly written.

Personally, I am one who does not believe that humans broke the planet, but I will recycle and properly dispose of my hazardous waste anyway. I also drive the speed limit and pay my taxes. How weird is that?

[mfunnell]

Originally Posted by bmattock

I also drive the speed limit

Well, I try - but I drive a clapped-out Saab 900GLE so sometimes it's difficult, even on mild hills.

...Mike

[amateriat]

Originally Posted by mfunnell

Well, I try - but I drive a clapped-out Saab 900GLE so sometimes it's difficult, even on mild hills.

...Mike

oh, great, another Saab story...


- Barrett

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by amateriat

oh, great, another Saab story...


- Barrett

My favourite Saab story:

90% of Saab drivers believe that Saabs are the most reliable cars sold today.

And 90% believe that theirs is the only exception.

(The same story is told of Volvos).

Cheers,

R.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by bmattock

Despite the fact that I agree most authorities are dolts (I actually believe most people are dolts, present company excepted), I tend to also believe that living in a society implies adhering to the rules of that society. So finding out what the rules are and then following them is actually something I consider a good thing.
. . .

Personally, I am one who does not believe that humans broke the planet, but I will recycle and properly dispose of my hazardous waste anyway. I also drive the speed limit and pay my taxes. How weird is that?

Dear Bill,

There's an old saying to the effect that laws are for the obedience of the foolish and the guidance of the wise.

The actual working rules of a society, as distinct from its huffings, puffings and posturings, are not necessarily summarized at all well in law. I think it was Sir Robert Mark, sometime Chief Constable of the Metropolitan Police, who said something to the effect that some laws are passed to reflect public opinion, not to be enforced.

Cheers,

R.

[Papa Smurf]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Many local authority guidelines are formulated by non-scientists, which is why some are so unrealistically stringent. My favourite is that silver is a poisonous heavy metal, because (a) it's heavy and (b) it's a metal: minor considerations about reactivity are not allowed into the equation.

I once did a little light research on the poisoning of enzymes by heavy metals (by which I mean I tried to poison enzymes with heavy metals) and while, for example, cadmium is pretty bad news, silver ain't. This was decades ago but all the proper reseach I have read by far more skilled scientists bears out my limited conclusion.

..........
Cheers,

R.

If silver is terribly toxic, then why can one buy silver solutions to drink for one's health? Never tried them myself, but others say there are many benefits to such drinks? Only in the good 'ol US of A can one find so many experts with counter-poising views on the same subject. In most other modern Countries the experts must have credible credentials and a history of being, at least occasionally, correct. Like a plumber friend of mine said to me, "according to the Government experts, he died ten years ago" (from lead not silver poisoning).

Common sense should go a long way here. It is only reasonable that an amateur that dumps a liter a week of chemicals down the drain, I do not dump any down my drain, but if one did, that would be more serious than if the same amateur dumped a liter every three months. Obey the laws, as has been pointed out, but keep things in perspective. Somewhere between the new USDA czar's belief that we humans have no right to poison rats and the wholesale pollution of the past is a middle ground where we all can live, prosper, and pursue our interests.

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by Papa Smurf

If silver is terribly toxic, then why can one buy silver solutions to drink for one's health? Never tried them myself, but others say there are many benefits to such drinks? Only in the good 'ol US of A can one find so many experts with counter-poising views on the same subject. In most other modern Countries the experts must have credible credentials and a history of being, at least occasionally, correct. Like a plumber friend of mine said to me, "according to the Government experts, he died ten years ago" (from lead not silver poisoning).

Colloidal silver can make you turn blue. Talk about smurfs!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argyria

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colloidal_silver

Regardless of what morons think it does for you, I'm not drinking any.

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by Papa Smurf

If silver is terribly toxic, then why can one buy silver solutions to drink for one's health? Never tried them myself, but others say there are many benefits to such drinks?

Apart from Bill's links on argyria, people buy silver solutions because of their antibacterial properties. This is exactly the reason why they're bad for the bacteria in the sewage plant (and why they may not be so healthy after all).

[sepiareverb]

Originally Posted by rxmd

Apart from Bill's links on argyria, people buy silver solutions because of their antibacterial properties. This is exactly the reason why they're bad for the bacteria in the sewage plant (and why they may not be so healthy after all).

And again, it's a matter of degrees. Alcohol is toxic in large doses, yet how many of us happily guzzle that down every day?

[Papa Smurf]

Originally Posted by Roger Hicks

Yes, but the amounts of silver involved are pretty trival, which is why most sane and scientifically literate local authorities don't worry about the tiny amounts that are poured down the drain by amateur photographers.

The amounts tipped down the average town drain 20 years ago must have been 1 or 2 orders of magnitude greater than today and it still wasn't a problem.

Cheers,

R.

Originally Posted by sepiareverb

And again, it's a matter of degrees. Alcohol is toxic in large doses, yet how many of us happily guzzle that down every day?

My contention exactly and also my reason for calling for common sense. Along time ago, when cancer research was all the rage, one study concluded that giving lab rats massive doses of distilled water promoted cancer growth. All things in moderation, as the old folks used to say. Unless your town is very small, its sewage treatment facility very inadequate, and there are a large number of photographers rolling their own, I doubt very much that the amount of water soluble silver is significantly high to cause problems with the eco-system. Kodak's publication on disposing of photo-chemicals says that most of the silver precipitates out and remains in the sludge in a non-water soluble state and therefore, has little impact upon the enviroment.

[Roger Hicks]

Originally Posted by rxmd

Apart from Bill's links on argyria, people buy silver solutions because of their antibacterial properties. This is exactly the reason why they're bad for the bacteria in the sewage plant (and why they may not be so healthy after all).

Yes, but the amounts of silver involved are pretty trival, which is why most sane and scientifically literate local authorities don't worry about the tiny amounts that are poured down the drain by amateur photographers.

The amounts tipped down the average town drain 20 years ago must have been 1 or 2 orders of magnitude greater than today and it still wasn't a problem.

Cheers,

R.