It's official, it is goin to be a digital Pen

[ishpop]

http://asia.olympus-imaging.com/prod...en50th/pen_ee/

Or at least the foreshadowing seems to imply this.

[Leigh Youdale]

Looks like it - remains to be seen what the feature set and specification is - but there's space on that 'teaser' for the next announcement on June 15th and then one more!

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

What does this have to do with a digital camera???

It's implying that the digital m4/3s camera will be a continuation of the old olympus pen lineage, or at least it'll be the spiritual successor of it. They're going to announce the digital equivalent of it on that little thing - every week or two they update it with a later model in a pen lineage, which everyone is predicting will lead up to the new m4/3 camera

[wray]

If that new Pen comes with an optical viewfinder then it might just be my next camera purchase!

[pbhome]

Olympus PEN was my first camera. My dad liked it so much, he bought two of them.

I hope the new m4/3 is something similar to the PEN.

-Pat

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by wray

If that new Pen comes with an optical viewfinder then it might just be my next camera purchase!

Exactly how do you propose the camera has an optical viewfinder without an optical mirror?

Part of the reason why they've been able to make the camera form so much smaller, yet keeping the big sensor, is because they've done away with the mirror which is the key "ingredient" in an optical VF.

So no, it won't have an OVF. I'd bet the first model they bring out has no VF at all, just the screen on the back and a centralized hot shoe for external VFs.

[FrozenInTime]

Originally Posted by fdigital

Exactly how do you propose the camera has an optical viewfinder without an optical mirror?

Part of the reason why they've been able to make the camera form so much smaller, yet keeping the big sensor, is because they've done away with the mirror which is the key "ingredient" in an optical VF.

After 1,051 posts, I'm surprised think you are confusing a reflex view finder to a direct vision optical viewfinder. i.e. SLR vs rangefinder or scale focus camera.
( some OVF examples here http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/looking_forward.htm)

The hope of many here is than the olympus µ4/3 will have either a direct vision OVF and a rear LCD or a EVF and rear LCD.

My dream camera would have a Leica M like optical viewfinder but with the ability to project bright lines onto this from a LCD.
It would obviously drop the optical rangefinder, but instead would have the ability to electronically shutter the optical input and project a live view EVF image and magnified EVF image.

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by FrozenInTime

After 1,051 posts, I'm surprised think you are confusing a reflex view finder to a direct vision optical viewfinder. i.e. SLR vs rangefinder or scale focus camera.

The hope of many here is than the olympus µ4/3 will have either a direct vision OVF and a rear LCD or a EVF and rear LCD.

I'm fully aware that you don't need a mirror to have an optical viewfinder, but obviously you haven't yet considered the fact that this is an interchangeable lens camera that is meant to be a smaller replacement for a DSLR, and thus will have lenses ranging from 14mm equiv wide to 600mm equiv long, plus many variable focal length lenses (zooms).

Now, if you will, please explain to me how a fixed optical "direct vision" VF will be able to be used with both a 14mm lens and a 600mm lens, and all the focal lengths in between, let alone how it will be able to be used accurately.

[FrozenInTime]

Originally Posted by fdigital

please explain to me how a fixed optical "direct vision" VF will be able to be used with both a 14mm lens and a 600mm lens, and all the focal lengths in between, let alone how it will be able to be used accurately.

For normal 28mm....90mm lenses : direct OVF with projected lines as per Leica/Zeiss/Bessa (or EVF option) then EVF only for exotic focal lengths.

Originally Posted by FrozenInTime

would have the ability to electronically shutter the optical input and project a live view EVF image and magnified EVF image.

[wlewisiii]

I guess I'm not sure why this is a surprise... Oly has foundered over the past several decades and will be gone soon. This attempt to associate thier digital products with with one of their few past successes is only a simple desperate stab at survival. Pen & OM will soon be a simple memory, fading quickly...

Sorry,

William

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by wlewisiii

I guess I'm not sure why this is a surprise... Oly has foundered over the past several decades and will be gone soon. This attempt to associate thier digital products with with one of their few past successes is only a simple desperate stab at survival. Pen & OM will soon be a simple memory, fading quickly...

Sorry,

William

Olympus is one of the most innovative camera companies out there, and they've never followed the canon/nikon crowd, they've always done their own thing. this extends back to the OM and pen days, when nikon and canon were busting out their mammoth pro SLRs and selling heaps of them, olympus was quietly selling and perfecting their smaller, easier to handle jewel like OMs and Pens.

Now, if there is one thing the digital market lacks 100 times over, it's a tiny camera with jewel like ergonomics and ultra high quality interchangeable lenses and a large sensor with high image quality. In the market at the moment you either buy a mammoth DSLR or a crappy quality point and shoot.

The m4/3rds digital pen will be exactly what a LOT of people are wanting.

Olympus is actually doing very well financially, and even though the canon nikon fans wouldn't let you know it, there are a lot of dedicated E-system users, including me (shared with the Canon EOS system). There are a lot reasons why the E-system is so good - the superb lenses, the superb ergonomics, the small size, the weather sealing, the leading technologies olympus puts on their cameras before anyone else (live view, dust shaker, IS, articulated LCD etc etc).

I'll eat my hat (not really, i don't even own a hat) if the new m4/3rds camera doesn't sell like hotcakes. I'm already saving to buy one, and I know a lot of people on this forum are.

Sorry,
Gavin

[.ken]

Originally Posted by wlewisiii

I guess I'm not sure why this is a surprise... Oly has foundered over the past several decades and will be gone soon. This attempt to associate thier digital products with with one of their few past successes is only a simple desperate stab at survival. Pen & OM will soon be a simple memory, fading quickly...

Sorry,

William

Haven't you heard? The 4/3rds was dead when it launched. And Olympus doesn't even really exist.

[Al Kaplan]

A mirror is the key thing in an SLR. The original Pen models had a simple reverse telescope finder; positive element for an eyepiece, negative element in front. Simple direct view, no moving parts. The Pen F cameras were SLR's with a side swinging mirror and a porroflex instead of a pentaprism.

[Larky]

As long as they don't make it out of plastic, make it too 'new' looking (i.e. rounded plastic) and stick an optical VF on it (mounted to the hot plate, in other words a round piece of glass) it could be great.

But, it could have the typical shutter lag, beeps, portrait mode, landscape mode, dragon mode, alien holiday mode, poorly done touch screen controls like Sony do (only Apple are allowed touch screen controls) and crazy 85 thousand point keep everything in focus largest aperture is f900 nonsense on it. In which case I'd rather eat fdigital's hat with him.

When will somebody release a digital Leica, for less than £1000?

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by Larky

But, it could have the typical shutter lag, beeps, portrait mode, landscape mode, dragon mode, alien holiday mode, poorly done touch screen controls like Sony do (only Apple are allowed touch screen controls) and crazy 85 thousand point keep everything in focus largest aperture is f900 nonsense on it. In which case I'd rather eat fdigital's hat with him.

FYI olympus have previously stated that there will be no touch screen controls on any of their cameras in the near future as it's a clumsy technology for photographic purchases.

[jonmanjiro]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

Yes Japanese designers are really stuck in the dark ages interface-wise, they just don't get Apple. I imagine they would design a horrid interface, not unlike the almost useless ones in their existing designs.

The rule in Japanese design is black on black illegible lettering, zillions of tiny buttons, laid out in no particular order, and endless menus controlled by a four position set of buttons, that you can accidentally touch with your thumb while you shoot.

I have a new Samsung TV with controls in braille, with lettering so small that it take a magnifying glass in bright light to read it.

The junk really ticks me off frankly.

Sooner or later I will just take all my casual photos with an iPhone.

Fred, you do realise that Samsung is a Korean company, right

[nzeeman]

Originally Posted by nikonhswebmaster

Yes Japanese designers are really stuck in the dark ages interface-wise, they just don't get Apple. I imagine they would design a horrid interface, not unlike the almost useless ones in their existing designs.

The rule in Japanese design is black on black illegible lettering, zillions of tiny buttons, laid out in no particular order, and endless menus controlled by a four position set of buttons, that you can accidentally touch with your thumb while you shoot.

I have a new Samsung TV with controls in braille, with lettering so small that it take a magnifying glass in bright light to read it.

The junk really ticks me off frankly.

Sooner or later I will just take all my casual photos with an iPhone.

if you are happy with iphone photo quality - that clearly shows that apple's brainwashing machine still works good. they make high-priced garbage that all other companies have by much smaller prices, they have services thousands of miles away, they take you great money for products and for every repair - and because of that people think that that is some great elite company.
i hope you realize that there are tons of products for asian market which you never see on west - and a lot of them are very much ahead of apples products.
and yes - as someone else stated - samsung is korean...

[majid]

It's official, it is going to be a digital Pen

Except the Pen was a half-frame camera. Four-thirds (and M4/3) is really quarter-frame, i.e. 110 film equivalent, with all the professional quality we've come to expect from 110 film...

It's doubtful it can compete with the Sigma DP2 or the future Samsung APS-C compact on image quality, specially in low-light.

[ishpop]

Originally Posted by majid

It's doubtful it can compete with the Sigma DP2 or the future Samsung APS-C compact on image quality, specially in low-light.

We will see. At the end of the day it's the photographer making the photographs. So "image quality", outside of science labs, becomes a matter of finesse. I look forward to Oly's effort to make an enjoyable machine for me to take pictures with.

[Leigh Youdale]

Originally Posted by majid

Except the Pen was a half-frame camera. Four-thirds (and M4/3) is really quarter-frame, i.e. 110 film equivalent, with all the professional quality we've come to expect from 110 film...

It's doubtful it can compete with the Sigma DP2 or the future Samsung APS-C compact on image quality, specially in low-light.

I think your comparison is a little unfair.
The G10 has a sensor of approximately 43 square mm.
The Micro 4/3rds sensor is about 225 square mm.
The Sigma Foveon sensor is 286 square mm or 27% larger.
The APS-C sensor is about 330 -370 square mm, depending on manufacturer.

So what actual basis do you have for making a statement implying that the m43 sensor is going to lack quality of image and be comparable to a 110 film format from 40 years ago? Current reviews of the G10 with its tiny sensor and >14 MP available rate it very highly.
You must have knowledge that is hidden from the rest of the photographic world.

[gdi]

Originally Posted by Leigh Youdale

You must have knowledge that is hidden from the rest of the photographic world.

LOL! Or vice versa!

[gavinlg]

Originally Posted by majid

Except the Pen was a half-frame camera. Four-thirds (and M4/3) is really quarter-frame, i.e. 110 film equivalent, with all the professional quality we've come to expect from 110 film...

It's doubtful it can compete with the Sigma DP2 or the future Samsung APS-C compact on image quality, specially in low-light.

Sigma DP1/DP2 sensor size: 20.7mm x 13.8mm
Olympus Four Thirds sensor size: 18mm × 13.5mm
Pentax/Samsung APS-c sensor size: 23.4mm x 15.6mm

OMG the sigma DP2 sensor is SOOOO much bigger than the 4/3rds one, a whole 2.7mm in length (due to the 3:2 ratio instead of 4/3rds 4:3 ratio) and a whopping .3mm in width.
An Olympus E-3 with it's 2 years old 4/3rds panasonic sensor would spank a sigma DP2 in low light. The foveon sensor can be woeful at high ISO - color splodges, casts and massive undersaturation.

From my E-3, iso 1250 + pushed almost a stop (iso 2000ish equiv) in post:


Now thats a 2 year old sensor from Olympus/panasonic, and the new M4/3rds or Digital Pen will have a new and improved version of it.

Why exactly do you think it wouldn't compete with the sigma or the Samsung (had to laugh at that one) in image quality? My Olympus E-systems DSLRs compete with my full frame Canon 5d, and in some areas surpass it.

[JoeV]

Originally Posted by fdigital

Sigma DP1/DP2 sensor size: 20.7mm x 13.8mm
Olympus Four Thirds sensor size: 18mm × 13.5mm
Pentax/Samsung APS-c sensor size: 23.4mm x 15.6mm

And the 110 film format is 17mm x 13mm, with one sprocket hole, just to set the record straight. So 4/3 and m4/3 is very close to 110 format in size.

~Joe

[john_ela]

Originally Posted by majid

Except the Pen was a half-frame camera. Four-thirds (and M4/3) is really quarter-frame, i.e. 110 film equivalent, with all the professional quality we've come to expect from 110 film...

It's doubtful it can compete with the Sigma DP2 or the future Samsung APS-C compact on image quality, specially in low-light.

I'm really excited about this camera and have put my GH1 purchase on hold until more details surface. Interesting to see Oly time this just as the GH1 gets released.

Majid - In a post a few weeks ago you seemed quite upbeat about the Oly (pasted below). Wondering why you see things different now?

Originally Posted by majid

I would suggest you wait another month for the reviews of the DP2 to come out, and also Olympus to annonce its new compact micro four thirds body on June 15.

[majid]

Originally Posted by john_ela

Majid - In a post a few weeks ago you seemed quite upbeat about the Oly (pasted below). Wondering why you see things different now?

I was just reacting to triumphalism, misplaced in my view. I still think this will be a great camera, assuming the rumors are true and this is a pocketable camera with the dimensions of a G10, DP2 or LX3. Sigma was the first, but the body and electronics hobble the otherwise fine Foveon sensor and excellent lens. I just think the Pen43 will eventually be an evolutionary dead-end. Its small sensor ultimately cannot compete with larger sensor cameras (that are not available yet). If they limit it to 6MP, it will work better.

The G1 does poorly at ISO 1600 where all the entry-level APS DSLRs from other manufacturers are perfectly acceptable (let alone a D700 or 5DmkII). The people who seem to think a G1 is competitive with full-frame cameras are simply in denial.

At least Olympus seems to have the right idea - the G1/GH1 is too big to fit in a pocket, and if you are going to keep it in a bag, the size advantage over a Rebel or D5000 is hardly compelling. What we are lacking is high-quality pocketable cameras equivalent to a Contax T3, Nikon 35Ti or Leitz CL. An interchangeable lens means the body can't have a compact retractible design like the T3 or 35Ti, but Olympus is good at miniaturized optics like the 25mm f/2.8. Then again, so is Pentax, aligned with Samsung. With a little luck they will make it a statement camera like the E-1 or OM-4Ti with top-notch build quality and the option of a high-quality fast prime like the Zuiko 50mm f/2.0 Macro or the Zuiko 50mm f/1.2.