film and Chemicals: Where should a European photographer turn?

[buzzardkid]

Just today, I found out through my local photo store that there is only one company left in The Netherlands that develops E6 slide film.

Just now I read about the difficulty my fellow Dutchmen have to find chemicals for developing their films.

You might consider this a local issue, since it's all about Holland. But please, read on.

Currently, The Netherlands have one of the highest penetration rates for digital photography in Europe. All film factories have already closed in Holland, raising prices for a single 400TMX film of 36 shots to EUR 7.00 a piece due to expensive road transport of small vuolumes.
My photo store is considering ending the film process altogether within the next 12 months, since chemicals are getting harder to obtain by the day, and demand is dropping rapidly.

In The Netherlands, film photography is a niche market already.

I obviously am not a clairvoyant. There's no way to predict developments, although there is an obvious possibility: this is what will happen in the whole of Europe. Eastern Europeans that have in the last ten years joined the EU, finally have the opportunity to own consumer goods, and they're not buying film cameras. There is no market of considerable size left for film photography, and there won't be one in the future.

Currently, we all have our own addresses and connections to keep the show on the road, to be able to shoot film and get it developed, scanned, etc. But in the near future all these addresses will back out, since they have a business to run, and cannot support the small volume of film shooters that walks in the door. They have to cut losses and so have to cut film photography.

IMHO this is the time to choose a European company to handle our future film and chemical needs. Choosing now will allow for a steady growth and consistent quality with the new supplier, and will ensure it will not fold if demand suddenly rises in the future. (With a sudden future rise in demand, you can't just open a can of skilled techs to join in, can you? )


This should be a company that supports

• international shipping of (slide) film and chemicals,
• that accepts sent-in films from international customers,
• that allows for credit card payments, or PayPal,
• and possibly more that I'm missing here.
• Heck, they might even take up Kodachrome again if the volume would allow it!

My intention is to compile a short list of possible vendors that meet the above listed demands, and have it converted to a sticky thread by the moderators, as we did with the Leica repair tech thread in the past.


Anyone any suggetions here?

[EmilGil]

Hmm, I think Fotoimpex in Berlin would come pretty high on that list. I don't know about the Kodachrome part but they have been trying to resurrect the old Agfa MCC/MCP papers, there were even rumours about Agfa APX being revived..

[blazejs]

APX is available :-)

[russianRF]

Originally Posted by blazejs

APX is available :-)

Details, please! New APX? Or new old stock? Where from?!

I bought a whole bunch of APX and still have about 10 rolls; once that is done I don't know what I'll do. I've fallen in love with Rodinal+APX!

[buzzardkid]

Originally Posted by russianRF

Details, please! New APX? Or new old stock? Where from?!

I bought a whole bunch of APX and still have about 10 rolls; once that is done I don't know what I'll do. I've fallen in love with Rodinal+APX!

There is an English languaged site for Fotoimpex in the UK, it features APX, the link is here

[russianRF]

Originally Posted by CLE-RF

There is an English languaged site for Fotoimpex in the UK, it features APX, the link is here

Thanks. I'll have to see what shipping to the US is like. Here's to hoping they can find some way to get new stock...

[peter_n]

Originally Posted by russianRF

Details, please! New APX? Or new old stock? Where from?!

I bought a whole bunch of APX and still have about 10 rolls; once that is done I don't know what I'll do. I've fallen in love with Rodinal+APX!

Photo Wharehouse in Oxnard on the other side of LA from you have bulk APX. They are also listing 24exp cassette but that is currently out of stock. I have a stack of bulk from them and it is original 2010 expiry Agfapan 100.

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/agapx100bwfi.html

When you finally do run out of APX try Fomapan 100.

[EmilGil]

Originally Posted by blazejs

APX is available :-)

I meant restarting production, not selling old stock. Any APX with expiry date in 2010 or 2011 is old stock, as is the Rollei Retro 100/400 (cut by Maco). I haven't seen 120-format APX in original boxes since early 2006.

There were rumours that Fotoimpex would take up production of APX again if the MCC/MCP became enough of a success. I don't know if they've sold enough to take the plunge...

[titrisol]

I buy my stuff from Robert Vonk (fotohuisrovo.nl) near Oss.
He carries APX100 (Rollei Retro 100) and a lot of other stuff.
I have not looked but I think he also carries color chemistry

[Svitantti]

Nordfoto and Fotoimpex in Germany are great, I've been using both. Impex is the place for B&W and for some color stuff too, but color films are cheapest at Nordfoto. Everything has worked great with both. I live in Finland.

I certainly recommend trying your own color process. It is easy and you save money if you shoot much. Maybe get some friend to use them with you if you buy for example 5 L of E-6 chemicals.

[MartinP]

I had the impression that there are quite a few smaller labs still running dip-and-dunk for E6, on a Q-Lab professional basis, although they are (or were) mostly in the West last time I checked.

If you don't want the quality, reliability (and cost) associated with perfect processing then one goes to Hema - and I have no idea where they send it ! Given the famous inaccuracy of 'things that retailers will say', it is possible that there are not many large-scale E6 labs running, or even only one. However, there is a visible difference in maximum black and colour accuracy/repeatability between perfect processing and mass market results on E6...

Edit: We can process our own E6, for sure, but the usual home-kit, three-bath process is not the same as in a professional dip-and-dunk setup (different steps) and consistency will be gone without extreme control, test-clips and densitometer systems in place. For our amateur use that is ok, but the results won't be as great as home-processed C41 - this is one reason behind the Kodak Ektar film lauched relatively recently of course.

[blazejs]

APX is possible to buy in Poland - both from online companies and auction sites. It's with both new and old logo, expiration time is usually around 2010-2011. Some says it's made by Maco from old Agfa stocks, some says that Chinese bought whole technology line and produce that now in China. I haven't tried this so far but due to ugly Polish winter weather I'm not sooting much lately.

[buzzardkid]

Fotoimpex sure looks nice, they have 84-page German language catalog online which features great goods and many films!

Would be nice to see the catalog in English as well though. The English site does not have a catalog at all, the site and company seem a recent acquisition since the site layout is totally different.

Not sure on colour processes at Fotoimpex though, let alone E-6...

@ Martin: could you possibly find any leads on the labs in The Netherlands that would accept international film handling, and international shipping of film and chemistry?


I keep thinking this might be a great business opportunity for a photography dedicated businessman... Any takers?

[MartinP]

For E6, just go to the Kodak site and look for the lab search page. There is probably a similar list for Fuji, but when I was involved (in UK) Kodak was the main certification system for smaller labs similar to the one I worked in.

What is the problem with film and chemicals though ? These are easy to get by parcel-post - or do you mean developing, producing and reselling your own range ?

[Phantomas]

I'm also in Holland and I buy online from Germany. Far better prices than I get in Amsterdam, even if you add shipping. Good variety of film and dev chemicals, fully film dedicated distro. Check this place out:

http://macodirect.de/index.php?langu...f5f25d11f43cb4

by the way, just add a little spiteful irony to your post - the place where the deceiced Polaroid will reopen the factory is Enschede, Holland

[sevo]

Originally Posted by CLE-RF

Just today, I found out through my local photo store that there is only one company left in The Netherlands that develops E6 slide film.

There are at least four companies here in town (Frankfurt, Germany) that still process E6 - two of them with four hour turnaround. Quite a drop from the boom days in the mid nineties, when there were some twenty or thirty, but still more than in the sixties/early seventies, when there only was one Kodak and Agfa licensed lab each.

It would be very surprising if Amsterdam at least did not have a similar number of pro labs left...

If it comes to industrial scale megalabs, only one would be no surprise - but then, there probably never were more than three in the Netherlands, given that they barely ever outnumbered ten in Germany (which have dropped to three by now).

Sevo

[Svitantti]

Fotoimpex has a shop where you can browse the stuff more accurately. Not yet in english it seems.

I think E-6 at home goes just fine. I've noticed no visually obvious variance, neither have my friends. We've soon spent first 5 liters and second is waiting...

Color film processing is said to be more difficult than it is. The Kodak 6-bath probably wouldn't be much longer or harder than Tetenal 3-bath (with rinses it is more like 6 baths anyway) and it should be more "professional", but I can also recommend Tetenal judging by my experiences.

[historicist]

Seriously, only one E-6 processor in the whole of the Netherlands? Here in Berlin everywhere does it, even really mainstream department stores and electronics shops, who admittedly probably ship it out to a big lab somewhere (usually 7 days turnaround), CEWE probably.

Where I get my film done it comes back in two days so they must be sending it to somewhere in Berlin - and there is at least one place that does 1 hour processing, though they charge crazy prices.

For film, the English webshop www.7dayshop.com is the cheapest I've found - they don't ship to Europe but if you have any friends in Great Britain or Ireland.. Provia 400X there is £2.85, even if you buy only one, but 4,16 Euro each at Nordfoto when you buy five. Especially with the exchange rate as it is...

[buzzardkid]

Originally Posted by historicist

... Here in Berlin everywhere does it, even really mainstream department stores and electronics shops, who admittedly probably ship it out to a big lab somewhere (usually 7 days turnaround), CEWE probably....

In smaller towns in The Netherlands, there are mostly just three or four photo shops (for comparison, my town is 60,000+ inhabitants, three professional shops), all of which ship the film out for the seven-day turn-around service.

My initial post wasn't specific enough, I apologise for any confusion. Meant to say there is only one industrial scale lab left for all these shops to send their E-6 stuff to.

Some shops might still process themselves. But chances are, these provide services for their area, not handling mail orders etc.

I mean to find companies that will get you serviced no matter where you live in the EU!

[Anton Caro]

I would only like to say that maybe East EU countries have higher digitalization level than in West EU countries.
And the reason is absolutely clear - because people in west countries can afford to shoot on film and spend a lot of money in comparison with someone who has just a soapbox-camera for 100 eur and does not print photos, but only looks at them on the screen of the PC.
I am one of the few people in Bratislava. We have 1 place where E6 is done (2 weeks order). And a few that do C41 and RA 4. B&W is available as neg. processing, but no one can copy on photo paper, just on colour one.
We have films. But most of them going to expire soon. I am curious what will happen in a year.

[buzzardkid]

Originally Posted by Anton Caro

...in Bratislava. We have 1 place where E6 is done (2 weeks order). And a few that do C41 and RA 4. B&W is available as neg. processing, but no one can copy on photo paper, just on colour one.
We have films. But most of them going to expire soon. I am curious what will happen in a year.

A search through the Kodak Lab locator engine reveals seven labs in The Netherlands that still do E-6 (at least, using Kodak gear). None are closer than 150km from where I live. Not sure whether any of them do postal services with their films.

The above Bratislava account suggests all E-6 from there is shipped abroad (two week turn around)

My point still is: what do we do when all these smaller firms in the time span of say, two years, back out of film photography? Due to too small order volumes? Will we then buy from several shops for film and for chemicals and for paper, send to another shop for B&W, for E-6, for barit printing, etc? Most of these shops will call it a day due to too little profit on the service.

Our brother in Bratislava already needs a good address to order and process his films!

Any suggestions for internationally working companies are still welcome!


Any company that offers:

• B&W, C41 and E-6 films in various sizes
• chemicals for B&W, C41, possibly E-6
• develops and prints
• handles international mail orders
• offers credit card payments, or PayPal

So far, all companies mentioned here are Germany-based, although they almost all are implementing an English website in some way or another at the moment.

No photographers in the UK, Norway, France, Spain or Italy with trouble or worries like this?

BTW, macodirect.de seems a very good suggestion! Although they do not offer developing an printing, all other demands from the above list are taken care of!

[titrisol]

The beeldgebouw guys in Rotterdam said they could do post-development of E6
Otherwise, HEMA does it all over the Netherlands

Originally Posted by CLE-RF

A search through the Kodak Lab locator engine reveals seven labs in The Netherlands that still do E-6 (at least, using Kodak gear). None are closer than 150km from where I live. Not sure whether any of them do postal services with their films.

The above Bratislava account suggests all E-6 from there is shipped abroad (two week turn around)

My point still is: what do we do when all these smaller firms in the time span of say, two years, back out of film photography? Due to too small order volumes? Will we then buy from several shops for film and for chemicals and for paper, send to another shop for B&W, for E-6, for barit printing, etc? Most of these shops will call it a day due to too little profit on the service.

Our brother in Bratislava already needs a good address to order and process his films!

Any suggestions for internationally working companies are still welcome!


Any company that offers:

• B&W, C41 and E-6 films in various sizes
• chemicals for B&W, C41, possibly E-6
• develops and prints
• handles international mail orders
• offers credit card payments, or PayPal

So far, all companies mentioned here are Germany-based, although they almost all are implementing an English website in some way or another at the moment.

No photographers in the UK, Norway, France, Spain or Italy with trouble or worries like this?

BTW, macodirect.de seems a very good suggestion! Although they do not offer developing an printing, all other demands from the above list are taken care of!

[schaubild]

Well, it's not EU, only Switzerland, but

www.ars-imago.ch

could be an option? Wide assortment and very knowledgeable. They ship everywhere.

[Eugen Mezei]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned CeWe. You can not send your film directly to them but they collect films through entire Europe in drugstores and big retailer chains. C41 and E6 no problem, 35mm, MF, LF.

Eugen

[buzzardkid]

Got a press release in my e-mail today:

"
Press release 04.03.2009 "ars-imago goes Europe"

*** DEUTSCH ***
Das erfolgreiche Konzept und die stetig wachsende Kundschaft
aus dem EU-Raum hat dazu geführt, das wir ab dem 9. März 2009
einen neuen ars-imago Shop (www.ars-imago.com) speziell für
EU-Kunden eröffnen werden. Der Sitz der neuen Gesellschaft
(ars-imago International s.r.l.) befindet sich in Rom. Der
neue Shop ermöglicht unseren EU-Kunden:
- Zollfreies Einkaufen
- Günstiger Versand
- Transparente Preise in Euro
Bestellungen können ab dem 17. März 2009 aufgegeben werden.
Diese Bestellungen werden ab dem 20. April 2009 ausgeliefert.
Für alle Einkäufe zwischen dem 17. März 2009 und dem 20.
April 2009 in unserem neuen Shop gewähren wir Ihnen einen
Willkommensrabatt von 10% auf das gesamte Sortiment!

Ein grosses "Dankeschön" an alle unsere Kunden, welche uns
diesen Schritt in die EU ermöglicht haben!
Alessandro Franchini


*** ITALIANO ***
In seguito allo straordinario successo della nostra società
svizzera e al crescente numero di clienti provenienti dagli
stati europei ars-imago aprirà una nuova sede nella città di
Roma in Italia. Da questa sede verranno serviti a partire dal
20 aprile 2009 tutti i clienti provenienti dall'unione
europea tramite il nuovo shop internet (www.ars-imago.com)
che sarà consultabile a partire dal 9 marzo 2009. A partire
dal 17 marzo 2009 sarà possibile effettuare ordini online.
Tutti gli ordini effettuati a partire da questa data verranno
evasi a partire dal 20 aprile 2009, data ufficiale di
apertura del nuovo negozio ars-imago. A tutti i clienti che
effettueranno un ordine tra il 17 marzo 2009 e il 20 aprile
2009 verrà applicato uno sconto di benvenuto del 10% sul
totale acquistato.

In nome del team ars-imago.ch e ars-imago.com esprimo a tutti
i nostri attuali clienti uno speciale ringraziamento per aver
reso possibile tutto questo.
Alessandro Franchini


*** ENGLISH ***
Following the great success in Switzerland and the growing
number of customers in the European countries ars-imago will
open a new shop in Rome (Italy). Starting on the 20th of
april 2009 this shop will serve all customers from countries
of the European Union. The new online shop (www.ars-
imago.com ) will be available from the 9th of march 2009
(orders can be placed from the 17th of march). On all orders
placed between the 17th of march 2009 and the 20th of april
we will apply a welcome discount of 10%!

In the name of the ars-imago team I express to all our
costumers our gratitude for making this possible.
Alessandro Franchini

"

This is a good thing, another company getting into European sales!