Widest Sonnar there has been?

[drjoke]

Would that be 40MM? I am waiting for my Jupter 9, which would be the 85MM for me. I already have Rollei 40MM Sonnar. Now if I want something wider, could I still get something in Sonnar?

[Mazurka]

Look up the Contax T3.

Better yet, get the T ix in both finishes which no self-respecting Sonnar-collector can do without.

[rxmd]

Is that Sonnar as in the lens formula or Sonnar as in the brand name?

[Bavaricus]

Originally Posted by rxmd

Is that Sonnar as in the lens formula or Sonnar as in the brand name?

Both! Sonnar is a succesor to the early Ernostar design of the 1920th which was improved by Zeiss. Its a triplet variant with at least one cemented group of three lenses. But today not every Sonnar named Sonnar is really one!

[rxmd]

Originally Posted by Bavaricus

Both! Sonnar is a succesor to the early Ernostar design of the 1920th which was improved by Zeiss. Its a triplet variant with at least one cemented group of three lenses. But today not every Sonnar named Sonnar is really one!

That's exactly why I was asking what the OP meant. I'm not sure whether the Contax T's Sonnar technically a Sonnar-type lens, for example. If it's just about the name, another candidate is probably the Vario-Sonnar 16-80/3.5-4.5 at the short end, but I am not sure whether this is what he really interested in.

I am not sure if there are any Sonnar-type lenses wider than 50 (maybe the Rollei Sonnar 40/2.8 in LTM, I don't know)

Philipp

[Bavaricus]

Originally Posted by rxmd

That's exactly why I was asking what the OP meant. I'm not sure whether the Contax T's Sonnar technically a Sonnar-type lens, for example. If it's just about the name, another candidate is probably the Vario-Sonnar 16-80/3.5-4.5 at the short end, but I am not sure whether this is what he really interested in.

I am not sure if there are any Sonnar-type lenses wider than 50 (maybe the Rollei Sonnar 40/2.8 in LTM, I don't know)

Philipp

Hello Philipp,

the Vario-Sonnar ist the name for almost all sophisticated zoom lenses by zeiss. Simpler designs are named Vario-Tessar, e.g. in Yashica P&S or in even in Contax T VSII. AFAIK the Sonnar 35/38 or 40 in the Contax T-T3 are real Sonnar type lenses - but the formula 6 lenses in 4 groups doesn't sound very sonnar like, more planar (gauss-type). The picture above shows the T ix, a APS P&S. Maybe it was possible to design a short Sonnar for APS. I wasn't able to get anny lens diagramms for the Contax T-Series .

The Rollei 2.8/40 in LTM is a real Sonnar

[jsuominen]

Originally Posted by Bavaricus

Maybe it was possible to design a short Sonnar for APS. I wasn't able to get anny lens diagramms for the Contax T-Series .

Here is some info in 'Zeiss Camera Lens News' about making Sonnar lens for Contax Tix APS p&s camera https://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN03e/$File/CLN3.pdf

This text is from pdf-file:
---
"Special efforts were made by Carl Zeiss to achieve excellent correction of distortion and image flatness over a wide field, eventually modifying the 5-element Sonnar basic design, chosen for its compactness, into a 6-element/4-group configuration very similar to the classic Planar design."
---

So, It seems that Contax Tix Sonnar 28mm/2.8 is actually Planar-type lens... I have Tix manual + brochure (and camera!) at home. I'll try to check, if there is a lens diagram and MTF-chart in one of their publication.

[drjoke]

Nothing available for M or LTM mount?

[darkkavenger]

a 28/2.8 Sonnar? wow! Lovely, but I'll stick with my 180/2.8 Sonnar, I've a silly fondness for heavy glass

[drjoke]

I am looking for a real Sonnar, as I am very fond of the effect it creates.

[Bavaricus]

Originally Posted by drjoke

I am looking for a real Sonnar, as I am very fond of the effect it creates.

QUOTE=me "The Rollei 2.8/40 in LTM is a real Sonnar "
/QUOTE

[varjag]

IIRC the distance between film plane and the rear element in Sonnar design is a bit over 1/2 of the focal length. So the focal length can't be very short.

[drjoke]

What are other lens designs with some pronounced and recognizable signatures like the Sonnars?

I am especially interested in wider than 35mm. Is there anything spectacular in terms of signatures for the wider lenses?

[rxmd]

Not really. The only thing that stands out is probably fully-symmetric designs like the Topogon, which are slow and show noticeable vignetting, but largely distortion-free. The cheapest lens of this type is the Russian 28/f6 Orion-15.

The Sonnar "look" is mainly a function of its bokeh, and in wideangles you don't have much of that anyway.

[Bavaricus]

Originally Posted by rxmd

Not really. The only thing that stands out is probably fully-symmetric designs

Don't forget the new Biogons!

[varjag]

Doesn't look quite like a classic Sonnar. If anything, it is closer to original 35mm Biogon diagram (which was likely inspired by Sonnar design).

[Bavaricus]

@Jari

Thank you very much for your input!

[Mazurka]

Originally Posted by varjag

Doesn't look quite like a classic Sonnar.

Except the 1950s Japanese clones and the Jupiters, nothing looks like classic Sonnars.

For more than 40 years, Zeiss Sonnars do not have cemented triplets -- hallmark of the "classic Sonnar". Advances in glass types and coatings have made such triplets unnecessary. The ZM C-Sonnar is made solely for nostagic reasons.

The vast majority of modern Sonnars have Ernostar designs, such as those found in Rollei 35S/SE, the Contax T, G and SLR series. There are also double-Gauss derivitives (e.g. ZM 85mm)

[varjag]

Originally Posted by Mazurka

Except the 1950s Japanese clones and the Jupiters, nothing looks like classic Sonnars.

For more than 40 years, Zeiss Sonnars do not have cemented triplets -- hallmark of the "classic Sonnar". Advances in glass types and coatings have made such triplets unnecessary. The ZM C-Sonnar is made solely for nostagic reasons.

The vast majority of modern Sonnars have Ernostar designs, such as those found in Rollei 35S/SE, the Contax T, G and SLR series. There are also double-Gauss derivitives (e.g. ZM 85mm)

Well, ZM C-Sonnar looks like classic Sonnar enough to me. I am aware about the air element, but it still maintains configuration of generalized triplet. The 28mm Sonnar above looks much closer to double Gauss.