Opening Pandora's 4x5 box

venchka · 07-13-2007

YIKES! What have I done? Two weeks ago it was the "free" Canonet QL17. After the Re-Hab, my "free" camera wasn't so free.

This week it was the "Too good to pass up" Speed Graphic with 2 lenses. Now I find myself searching for:

1. A changing bag/tent.
2. Dark cloth.
3. 4x5 daylight developing system.
4. I suppose some film would be good.

Any suggestions?

Where does it all end???????????????

venchka · 07-13-2007

I forgot:

How does one use a strobe with one of these Kodak shutters with (X) sync.? There are two posts sticking out of the side of the shutter. I assume that is for a flash sync. cord? Where does one find a cord with the two post connector on one end and a modern plug for a Sunpak flash on the other end?

Jason Sprenger · 07-13-2007

For a sync cord, go to www.ParamountCords.com. The tip that you want is there #13 bipost. The other can be their Sunpak but be careful with Sunpak 383's. I've filed the end of the Paramount Sunpak tip to safely slip in and out of my 383. I think their dedicated Sunpak tip is meant for things like the Sunpak 544 which actually a little different from the one used with the 383.

For a flash, I made a simple bracket that replaces the flash gun bracket over the range finder. It's not much more than a piece of 1" wide metal folded over into an "L" shape with an accessory shoe on top. I did this since I didn't want to drill a hole into the top of my Graphic. (Mine is pretty cherry.)

For daylight development, I use an HP Combi tank. It can develop 6 sheets at a time. If you use this one, go with developers and dilutions with longer development times, it helps even out development. Shorter development times work better when 4 sheets are developed at a time but requires a bit of practice. Tray or rack development would be easier to get good results but with some patience the Combi tank can do the job.

For a changing bag, I use Calumet's Changing room. http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/RM1000/ It costs a fraction of the Harrison tents and seems to work for me so far. For half the price, you can get a generic changing bag, but if you go this way, get the biggest one you can. I used one with a small box inside of it to make a tent until I got the Changing Room.

For a dark cloth, I use my fleece jacket with the bottom portion over the camera and the collar over the back of my head. For a loupe, I use the Toyo, it's not expensive and it works well.

For film, I like Tri-X 320, HP4+ and Provia 100F. I'm also trying Portra 400NC color negative but haven't got any of it developed yet. I use the 320/400 speed film when I might go hand held as better results occur when the lens is stopped down to f8 or further since today's flash units have trouble matching the power of the old bulbs.

Of course, it goes on and on. I scan with an older Canon 2400 but the Epson 4990 or 700/750 series are tempting these days.

Then there's lenses but you can go along way with the 127/135/150/162 that is if it's in good shape.

And of course, you'll need a good meter. I'd love a Sekonic 758 that can do it all, but my old Gossen Luna Pro F does enough. A Gossen Digi-Flash might be a compact alternative that does incident, reflective and flash metering.

Have fun with your Graphic.

venchka · 07-13-2007

Thanks Jason. I'll follow your flash cord lead. I have a 383 Super and a big handle mount Sunpak model # forgotten. I'll try to do my best WeeGee Homage.

The HP Combi-Plan does seem to be the best compromise between functionality and price. The Jobo System is way too expensive for now.

Texas. July. Fleece jacket? I don't think so.

Perhaps I can talk my daughter into making something.

As luck would have it, I scored a changing bag, Grafmatic film holder and a box of HP5+ this morning. Things are looking up.

I found the Speed Graphic in the process of buying a Minolta Auto Meter IV with spot attachment from the same person. I reckon I'm set.

I do think that the Ektar 127mm and the convertible Voigtlander Collinear Series II 200mm/300mm lenses will keep me busy and happy for some time. I feel like I'm in good company. Ansel Adams used Ektars and Collinears once upon a time.

What a long strange trip it will be.

colyn · 07-13-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by venchka

Texas. July. Fleece jacket? I don't think so.

It's 78 degrees here in Cowtown. Should be triple digit heat..

Trius · 07-13-2007

"But it's a wet heat..."

Wayne, bribe your daughter into making a dark cloth. I had my Mom make one, with weights in the corners. One side is black, the other white (cotton fabric, not synthetic aka "static cling") ... I saw a dark cloth the other day with a medium brown/tan side instead of white. The claim is that it is less contrasty so when you get under the cloth, your eyes don't have as much adjustment after having had a bright white expanse. Seems logical, but who knows. There's also Blackjacket which sort of interests me.

As for Daylight tanks, I haven't used the Combiplan but if I needed daylight tank I'd try it. I once used the Yankee 4x5 tank and it sucked. I ended up using it in complete darkness ... so that sort of defeated the purpose, eh?

As for film, I'd also recommend Tri-X. With a big neg, you don't really need slower film. But if you want to venture into a medium speed film, FP4+ would be a good choice since APX100 in sheet is gone and impossible to find any cold-stored stock. I was looking at some FP4+ 4x5 negs the other night. Scrumptious. In either case, Rodinal, HC-110 or D76 would be fine. I'd go with Rodinal, but could live happily with HC-110 or D76. For HC-110 I'd use dil. H so that my times were sufficiently long.

For chrome I used to use Ektachrome and liked it, but that was years ago on older emulsions.

One more thing ... spot meter. Now that you can do Zone work more efficiently than with roll film ... Be Ansel, or be square.

BrianPhotog · 07-13-2007

I have a crown graphic. For loading my filmholders and developing I just wait until night and do it in a dark, window-less room in my apartment.

no fogging so far

I'm tray developing until I can afford a 4x5 daylight tank. I shoot primarily ERA100 and HP5+ and develop in Rodinal.

sculpin · 07-13-2007

For the simplest and cleanest processing results. I use a dishpan with a gallon of developer. The developer maintains a stable temperature with the large volume of solution. The fil can float as you shuffle the film during the developing time.
Nitrogen burst system for agitation leaves flow patterns, aka bromide drag where the gas goes thru the holes in the metal hangers.
Similar results when processing with 4 way film hangers.
Good luck.

murrayatuptown · 07-13-2007

sounds like a nice set of lenses

wlewisiii · 07-13-2007

With a speed, you should have a built in hood covering the ground glass. I've never found the need for a dark cloth with my speed or crown. Now on my Calumet, that's a different game but all I use there is a black bath towel.

The 127/4.7 Ektar is a marvellous lens. Don't worry about using flash with it - you'll find it much more fun to play with available light.

Be carefull, though... when you see that first 4x5 neg come out of the soup it's really like losing your virginity again. LF really is that different from the miniature formats

William

Trius · 07-14-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlewisiii

Be carefull, though... when you see that first 4x5 neg come out of the soup it's really like losing your virginity again.
William

Amen, brother! "4x5, DO me!!!" (sorry if young eyes are viewing this... thank God I haven't worked with 8x10 or 11x14; my heart couldn't take it.)

I don't know how to get gritty grain on a 4x5 neg other than push processing. Kodak recording film is no more (it had BIG grain) ... is there any other high speed 4X5 film left? Nothing from Kodak, Ilford or Fuji.

sepiareverb · 07-14-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trius

... thank God I haven't worked with 8x10 or 11x14; my heart couldn't take it.)...

It's not my heart but my knees and back with the 810 & 1114- damn heavy stuff. One 1114 film holder weighs almost as much as an M7!

oftheherd · 07-14-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trius

...

I don't know how to get gritty grain on a 4x5 neg other than push processing. Kodak recording film is no more (it had BIG grain) ... is there any other high speed 4X5 film left? Nothing from Kodak, Ilford or Fuji.

I don't either, but I seem to recall that 6400 gives grain. And a change in developers will do it according to what I have read long long ago. I wish I could remember what it was. D-19 ring any bells?

dagabel · 07-13-2007

For film, I like the Arista EDU Ultra - only about $.30 per sheet so it's good while I'm learning. My wife helped me sew my own dark cloth out of two pieces of fabric - white on the outside and black on the inside. Right now I only change my holders at night in the laundry room, but my next project is going to be a do-it-myself changing tent. Someone posted pics of theirs over on the LF forum a few months ago:

http://www.largeformatphotography.in...highlight=tent

Have fun!
Duane

venchka · 07-14-2007

The idea of wandering around town after dark with a flash equipped Speed Graphic appeals to my sense of nostalgia. A modern day WeeGee. I often feel like I was born too late. When I wake up some mornings, I feel like I was born too early.

On the other hand, wandering around Houston after dark scares the Hell out of me.

Thanks for all of the film+developer suggestions. I have a 100 sheet box of HP5+ headed my way. The gentleman who sold me the film suggested Ilford's liquid developers or some flavor of pyro staining developers. My experience to date with 4x5 film consisted of Tri-X in D-76. I could do that too. Rodinal is also in my plans.

In looking at some of my 8x10s from 6x7 negatives (Tri-X, D-76, 1:1), there is NO grain. None. Nada. Zero. I'm assuming there would be even less from 4x5 negatives. Suppose I want grain in a 4x5 negative? How do you get that gritty, 35mm Tri-X pushed to the max, DDD in Korea or Viet Nam, grainy look from 4x5? Or should I fuhgetaboutit and get that look with Bigfoot & 50mm Nikkor & Tri-X & Rodinal?

Back to reality. If I buy the HP Combi-Plan and take out the sheet film holders, is there room in there for some 35mm or 120 reels?

Someday down the line I might like to invest in a really nice modern lens. The good news: I just looked at KEH and all of their 210mm lenses are less expensive than any lens I have purchased recently for Bigfoot & Bubba.

Keep the encouragement coming!

oftheherd · 07-14-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by venchka

...

The gentleman who sold me the film suggested Ilford's liquid developers or some flavor of pyro staining developers. My experience to date with 4x5 film consisted of Tri-X in D-76. I could do that too. Rodinal is also in my plans.

...

There are books on pyro. Be sure they tell you how to use it without getting the funny taste in your mouth. Seriously. Just from sticking your hands in it from what I have read. Apparently quite good but somewhat toxic.

Then you want to look for Azo paper for contact prints (well, usually for 8x10 and above).

You my friend are on a slippery slope.

venchka · 07-14-2007

Somewhere around here at RFF I read that folks liked 120 Bergger film, "but it's kinda grainy." I also read a review that said the Bergger film had a linear response curve similar to Kodak Super XX. Whatever that means. Sounded cool to me. That might be a place to start.

Jason Sprenger · 07-14-2007

Looking at it, the HP Combi Plan tank probably wouldn't work well with reels.

As to grain, I wouldn't expect it to be much of a concern until you get above 16"x20" enlargements even if you pushed the film a bit.

venchka · 07-14-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Sprenger

Looking at it, the HP Combi Plan tank probably wouldn't work well with reels.

As to grain, I wouldn't expect it to be much of a concern until you get above 16"x20" enlargements even if you pushed the film a bit.

...and I want it now!

Thanks for the info on the Combi-Plan. I have tanks for 135/120. I was just wondering if maybe I could toss the reels in the larger tank.

I'll do a bit of experimentation one of these years and see if I can force some grain to appear in the 4x5 negatives.

venchka · 07-14-2007

I just spoke to the seller again. He found the brackets for the flash and a sync. cord. I'll pick them up soon.

This camera & lens was purchased new in 1953. I'm the second owner. That is WAY cool.

So I guess the 7x17 camera of my dreams would be quite a handful? No wonder one user only has 2 film holders.

sepiareverb · 07-14-2007

Wayne- 717 is definitely one format I'd love to play around with too. Before the Canham I had a Wisner 810 that had interchangable rear standards- my thought when I got it was upping the format size at some point. But my hands were not happy with the knobs on the Wisner, too hard to grip (arthritis), so I traded it for the Canham, which has levers instead of knobs. Much easier on the hands, if a bit less robust of a camera.

LF is great fun, albeit M U C H S L O W E R than 35. The Grafic is certainly among the fastest 45 (thus the SPEED in the name), so you'll seque into it soon enough. Tray development isn't so hard, and the light from a Gralab timer isn't enough to fog if you keep it across the room or gobo'ed. And think about the polaroid 55 film- beautiful negs, though about grainless, the fastest way to get your fix for a 1620 print.