OT: Bronica S2A kit for sale

[wlewisiii]

I stopped into my FLCS today to get some NPH for the weekend and saw that they have a Bronica kit for sale:
S2A
Nikkor 75/2.8
Nikkor 50/3.5
Nikkor 135/3.5 - only works at 3.5
Zenza 5x Viewfinder
2 6x6 backs
Polaroid back
Closeup bellows
Mamiya aluminum case

$350.

I only looked through the glass of the case so no real idea on condition though no obvious problems. If interested call the store, Star Photo, at (608) 257-3535 8:30 - 6:00, Monday through Saturday. I'd suggest asking for Mike as he used to have his own photo studio.

No connections, etc.

William

[Byuphoto]

Man, what a bad time to be broke

[back alley]

that seems...reasonable!

if i only had 350.

[wlewisiii]

Tell me about it... But I figured someone here might need a good MF SLR and give it a good home.

William

[CZeni]

The S2A is notorious for having a delicate film advance - brass gears transmitting a lot of torque and prone to jamming. Having said that the Nikkor lenses are really nice - I'd like to buy that 50mm lens out of that kit. I have the 75mm and it is sweet...great out-of-focus effects.

[jlw]

It's the S2 that had the delicate film advance. The S2A was redesigned, with nitrided gear teeth for better hardness, and a redesigned locking mechanism that engaged on three teeth rather than a single tooth. I'm not saying King Kong couldn't strip it, you understand, but it's much, much less likely to be a problem area on the S2A. I used mine pretty roughly for a number of years and never had any problems with it at all.

And yes, the lenses were very nice. I had all three of the ones in this outfit. In many ways the nicest was the 135 -- great for headshots and full-length portraiture.

Before everyone goes trooping off to buy old Bronicas, though, make sure you know what you're getting into. A Bronica S shutter doesn't exactly release, or even fire -- "detonate" or "erupt" is more like it. The thing was plenty hefty, so it didn't jump around in your hand, but you, and everyone else in the room, definitely knew when it went off.

You'd hardly expect otherwise, considering all the stuff that went on when you pressed the release. The old Bronicas had an extra-long reflex mirror, which was nice because you didn't get mirror cutoff with teles, and it returned instantly after each exposure, a feature the Hasselblad 500C didn't have.

But to get those two features, while still allowing the use of wide-angle lenses without mirror lockup, the thing had one of the looniest firing cycles ever designed into a reflex camera. The mirror panel was suspended at its four corners by little rollers that ran in curved tracks cut in the sides of the mirror box. When you pressed the release, you energized a spring-loaded roller -- like a window-shade roller -- that ran transversely across the bottom of the camera. This roller rolled up a cloth tape, the other end of which was glued to the back of the mirror panel, so the rolling action pulled the rear upper edge of the mirror downward.

This caused the mirror to lie down flat, shiny side up, on the bottom of the mirror box, its front edge sliding neatly forward on its tracks to avoid whacking the back end of any wide-angle lens that might be poking in. Of course, you couldn't leavve that shiny mirror exposed where stray light would bounce off it -- so a thin, spring-loaded metal baffle, normally held vertically against the back of the camera by the back edge of the mirror, hinged down on top of it.

Meanwhile, to stop light from pouring in through the exposed focusing screen and fogging the film, a fabric blind on another roller -- normally rolled up against the upper front edge of the mirror box -- would unroll to cover it, pulled by strings that ran around pulleys and attached to the upper rear edge of the mirror.

Finally, after all that hullabaloo, plus the diaphragm stopping down, the conventional cloth focal-plane shutter would do its thing. Once it had fired, the window-shade roller was unlocked, allowing another spring to pull the mirror back up to the viewing position and reversing all the other stuff.

This doesn't have anything to do with rangefinder cameras -- except maybe to make you appreciate their simplicity and quietness -- but it's so ingenious and bizarre that I just had to try to describe it. If you ever get to see an S2-series Bronica in the flesh, remove the focusing mount (built in, but removable via a huge outer bayonet) and watch it fire a few times for yourself.

What's really amazing about all this spring/string/roller/pulley stuff is that it all actually worked quite well, aside from the prolonged din while it was firing, and on the S2A it was usually rather dependable as well!

[CZeni]

Originally Posted by jlw

It's the S2 that had the delicate film advance. The S2A was redesigned, with nitrided gear teeth for better hardness, and a redesigned locking mechanism that engaged on three teeth rather than a single tooth. I'm not saying King Kong couldn't strip it, you understand, but it's much, much less likely to be a problem area on the S2A. I used mine pretty roughly for a number of years and never had any problems with it at all.

And yes, the lenses were very nice. I had all three of the ones in this outfit. In many ways the nicest was the 135 -- great for headshots and full-length portraiture.

Before everyone goes trooping off to buy old Bronicas, though, make sure you know what you're getting into. A Bronica S shutter doesn't exactly release, or even fire -- "detonate" or "erupt" is more like it. The thing was plenty hefty, so it didn't jump around in your hand, but you, and everyone else in the room, definitely knew when it went off.

>huge snippage<

Thanks for the clarification - and yes, detonate is not far off. With all that stuff happening it's not a surprise...but the surprise is not that it worked but that it worked as well as it did. I use a Pentax 67 which has a reputation for noise and vibration - the Bronica is smoother (no giant shutter going ker-SCHWACK) but the Pentax is quieter.

We have a couple of local repair guys that won't touch S-series cameras due to the complexity...I assume that there are specialists out there to repair them?

And one other thing about them - they LOOK cool...very retro looking nowadays

Cheers!

[bmattock]

I think that's totally cool, thank you! I have two C bodies and I had no idea. Yes, they are LOUD going off. I got the C bodies because I had read that they had no problem with film flatness, as they are essentially S2A bodies without the removable backs (removable inserts, though). All other parts interchange. I have the Nikkor 75mm lenses, but Komura 50, 135, 150, and 200 lenses. I've got a lot or all of the accessories, too - chimney magnifier, prism (worthless - very dark), extra magazines, L-bracket handle, all that. Even bought a $300 rolling suitcase for the entire kit. Tried to sell it on eBoy awhile back - could not even get an offer of $150 for the lot, including the still-new suitcase. I decided that if that's all they're worth on the market now, I'll keep 'em and shoot them until I hang them on a shelf somewhere. I realize prices on MF SLR stuff is dropping, but yikes.

So sad - as I'd love to have all-Nikon glass, but I'm so broke I can't even pay attention.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[rover]

Now, if jlw's doesn't have you interested...... that is a great post.

Maybe we should send William on a more detailed recon for us.

The 50mm lens for my Hassy should be here tomorrow. There is something really appealing to me about holding a MF SLR. It is like a magic box, after the 5 paragraph long firing cycle () you really get a feeling that you did just make a great photograph.

[bmattock]

The Bronica S series were also somewhat unique in having a dual lens mount. An internal bayonet mount for the more common lenses, and an outer 57mm threaded mount for other lenses. The focusing helical mount itself was removable via yet another bayonet.

What that means is that these Bronicas are ideal for lens hackers, which is well-documented over at http://medfmt.8k.com/bronhacker.html and http://medfmt.8k.com/bronhb.html .

That's initially why I bought mine - but I never got around to making any lenses for it.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[CZeni]

By the way - SOLD to me

[bmattock]

Originally Posted by CZeni

By the way - SOLD to me

Well isn't that just the coolest thing! Congrats, I suspect you got a great deal! Let us know how it all works out, eh?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

[CZeni]

Originally Posted by bmattock

Well isn't that just the coolest thing! Congrats, I suspect you got a great deal! Let us know how it all works out, eh?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Well, the goodies showed up today - the kit is used, but not abused. The most important part is that the glass on all the lenses is very clean - really nice. The 135 is as described - the aperture is borked. But the rest of the stuff looks and works good...I'm pleased.

The film advance feels rather different than my S2 - the last bit of crank turning is a bit abrupt...not sure if this is 100% normal or not...

[wlewisiii]

So I heard - when I stopped in there today to get some film (Fuji CZ800) and mentioned they might get a call. Mike goes "so it was you that posted it" and held up a sales reciept Glad it's going to someone who can use and appreciate it. It had been sitting there, forlorn, for a long time.

William

[rover]

Good going.

You should get a commission William.

[jlw]

What was wrong with the 135's aperture again?

I've got a leftover 135/3.5 Nikkor with a missing diaphragm linkage and ONE missing blade, but all other blades intact and all glass intact... if that would provide you with enough spare parts to repair yours, you're welcome to it for the cost of postage. PM me if interested.

If I recall correctly from back when I owned an S2A, an S2, and an S all at the same time, they all had somewhat different feel through the crank, so I think the advance on yours probably is normal. It may be due to the improved locking mechanism on the S2A.

[ranger]

Too bad I missed out on this one....Just picked up an S2A on the 'bay' for 200, comes with a Nikkor 75 2.8 I've never used a MF camera so, looking forward to those 2 1/4 negs. Now all I have to do is figure out how to scan them!! (just bought a Nikon coolpix) will a cheapy flatbed scanner work? any ideas? thanks. Rob.

[CZeni]

Originally Posted by ranger

Too bad I missed out on this one....Just picked up an S2A on the 'bay' for 200, comes with a Nikkor 75 2.8 I've never used a MF camera so, looking forward to those 2 1/4 negs. Now all I have to do is figure out how to scan them!! (just bought a Nikon coolpix) will a cheapy flatbed scanner work? any ideas? thanks. Rob.

You'll be pleased with that lens...very nice out-of-focus backgrounds but sharp up front. Hit Bob M's web page on Bronicas http://medfmt.8k.com/bronica.html - more than you'll want to know

CZ
NC

[Brian Sweeney]

The Epson 3170 and other higher-end flatbed scanners have a varrier for 2 1/4 negatives. They are fairly cheap these days.