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-   -   Zeiss ZM lens wobble issues (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97703)

FrozenInTime 11-12-2010 08:23

Zeiss ZM lens wobble issues
 
Just how common is Zeiss wobble ?

I had hoped that things had improved with the newer lenses, but after just one week with a 35mm C-Biogon, I noticed that it had wobble between the lens mount and focus ring.

The lens is going back for exchange.

The poll is : check which lenses have/have had mechanical reliability issues.
( sorry no room for a 15mm button in the pole - but at $4600 I hope it's been okay)

FrozenInTime 11-12-2010 08:58

A while ago I had a 21mm f/2.8 and a 50mm f/2 : I sold them both, but the 21mm f/2.8 was looser than I cared for.
There are a few threads on RFF mentioning issues with the 50mm f/2, 35mm f/2 and 25mm f/2.8.

My 18mm f/4 is rock solid after two years and improved my confidence in Zeiss lenses no end.
When I started thinking about compact travel lenses, I had hoped the build and design quality was improving as new lenses were introduced.

The 35 f/2.8 was a disappointment.
The 85mm f/4 is looking okay so far.

semilog 11-12-2010 09:17

My 35/2.8 is tight as a drum. Rock-solid.

leicashot 11-12-2010 09:21

I've seen plenty of Leica lenses with this issues, as well as plenty of other manufacturers so lets not forget that this is not exactly a 'Zeiss only' issue, but an issue the OP is bringing up 'about' Zeiss on this occasion.

John Lawrence 11-12-2010 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by leicashot (Post 1467557)
I've seen plenty of Leica lenses with this issues, as well as plenty of other manufacturers so lets not forget that this is not exactly a 'Zeiss only' issue, but an issue the OP is bringing up 'about' Zeiss on this occasion.

I've never seen (or had) a Leica lens with this issue in all the years I've been using, buying and selling Leica lenses.

That's not to say it doesn't exist, but your comment that "plenty of Leica lenses" have this issue does surprise me.

John

Chriscrawfordphoto 11-12-2010 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Lawrence (Post 1467580)
I've never seen (or had) a Leica lens with this issue in all the years I've been using, buying and selling Leica lenses.

That's not to say it doesn't exist, but your comment that "plenty of Leica lenses" have this issue does surprise me.

John

When I first got into Leica and was buying my very first body and lens, I ordered a 50mm tabbed summicron, used, and it looked perfect...bot a mark on it, but the barrel wobbled. I sent it back. So, I have seen one Leica lens do it. I also saw a Konica 90mm M-Hexanon do it also.

John Lawrence 11-12-2010 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chriscrawfordphoto (Post 1467581)
When I first got into Leica and was buying my very first body and lens, I ordered a 50mm tabbed summicron, used, and it looked perfect...bot a mark on it, but the barrel wobbled. I sent it back. So, I have seen one Leica lens do it. I also saw a Konica 90mm M-Hexanon do it also.

Like I said Chris, I'm surprised and have never seen it any of the lenses I've owned, used, bought or sold.

Do you have any other Leica lenses and do any of them exhibit 'wobble'?

John

kbg32 11-12-2010 10:26

I have 3 ZM lenses, the 18, 21/4.5, and the 25/2.8. All are stellar lenses, but my 25 has a really bad case of the wobbles, and "squeels" when you focus it. It definitely needs attention. The lubricant has all but dried out. My other ZM lenses are fine. I haven't had this issue at all with my CV or Leitz lenses and some of the latter are over 30 years old.

Olsen 11-12-2010 10:31

I have had two ZM lenses: 50 mm 2,0 and 25 mm 2,8. The 50 mm 2,0 did wobble, but I could not see any bad effects on files or prints. Quite on the contrary. Sharpness and contrast was high and very even over the surface. In this respect; far better than my Leica Noctilux - which is neither sharp with rather low contrast and with hefty distortion. The latter cost 5 times as much as the ZM.

I regret that I sold these lenses. First, because they produced excellent results with my M8. Second; because I destroyed much of my reputation on the small 2.hand market of M-lenses here in Norway. I was not aware of the wobble before after I had sold it and got a lot of pepper because of it.

My Canon 28-70 mm 2,8L did also wobble. I gave it away to my nephew. He repaired it. I then bought a 24-28 mm 2,8L 2.hand. It wobbled too! I had it repaired for 20 $ at the Canon here in Oslo. These heavy Canon zooms are very prone to wobbling, I was told at the Canon service center. It is an easy and cheap thing to fix. The hassle for many of us here in Europe is that customs might demand that we pay VAT one more time, claiming it is a new product, and all that. So, it is not only a matter of sending it to the factory to have them repaired.

Chriscrawfordphoto 11-12-2010 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Lawrence (Post 1467582)
Like I said Chris, I'm surprised and have never seen it any of the lenses I've owned, used, bought or sold.

Do you have any other Leica lenses and do any of them exhibit 'wobble'?

John

I do have one Leica lens and have owned a couple more that I sold. None o them wobbled.

sanmich 11-12-2010 10:45

I wonder how much of these wobble issues are simply an optical retaining nut getting a bit loose, and could be solved with just a spanner wrench?
I had such an issue on a summicron-c 40mm back from a fresh CLA...

ferider 11-12-2010 10:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanmich (Post 1467599)
I wonder how much of these wobble issues are simply an optical retaining nut getting a bit loose, and could be solved with just a spanner wrench?
I had such an issue on a summicron-c 40mm back from a fresh CLA...

That's the thing: there is wobble and wobble.

(a) retaining ring is loose - very easy fix, and I consider this quite normal when the lens travels with you a bit. I had that with a 40 Summicron-C and a 35/2.5 Color Skopar. Usually optics are not affected at all. At least one case of a wobbling ZM 25/2.8 on RFF was fixable like this.

(b) optical cylinder start separating. I had that with a 50/1.5 Nokton, and it can happen also at least to the 35/1.7 Ultron, 35/1.2 Nokton, 50/2 Planar and 35/2 Biogon. To fix, you have to take off the front element to reach internal screws that need tightening and nail polish. Not so pleasant, and possible change of optical collimation.

(c) glued lens elements that start falling apart. That's the worst since not easily fixable yourself. The 35/2 v4 (Bokeh King) is known for this. Why glue was used instead of retaining rings is a miracle to me.

Roland.

Olsen 11-12-2010 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanmich (Post 1467599)
I wonder how much of these wobble issues are simply an optical retaining nut getting a bit loose, and could be solved with just a spanner wrench?
I had such an issue on a summicron-c 40mm back from a fresh CLA...

On the Canon lenses they changed a plastic ring which tightened the construction. I have heard that it is something similar that is being done with the ZM lenses. It is a cheap fix.

briz 11-12-2010 10:58

Bought an 28 2.8 on the bay and sent it back. My 50 2 and 25 2.8 have no problems.

MCTuomey 11-12-2010 11:03

25/2.8 - solid
28/2.8 - solid
35/2.8 - solid
35/2 - slight play in focus ring, repaired well by zeiss
50/1.5 - solid
50/2 - tight focus ring, repaired well by zeiss

leitz 35/2 v4 - needed tightening twice in ~ 2 yrs, aperture ring still too loose for my taste

coelacanth 11-12-2010 11:09

Only ZM I have is 35/2.8. And that lens is super solid with no wobble, no nothin'.

kdemas 11-12-2010 11:25

I have had my 25/2.8 get the wobble twice, both times it was the retaining ring/nut. Easy fix but annoying.

Why do I put up with it? The lens is superb from a performance perspective.

robbeiflex 11-12-2010 11:28

My 50mm Planar is rock solid. :)

jplomley 11-12-2010 11:33

I currently have six Leica lenses and they all perfect. Mechanically, no faults whatsoever. These lenses are built to outlast me.

Vickko 11-12-2010 11:49

I have had a few Leica R lenses with wobble. But never Leica M's with wobble.

Costo Kim 11-12-2010 12:49

I'm using zm planar with significant wobble for a few years
I've bought it second hand in this state and no deterioration noticed
and I cannot see any troubles with sharpness wide open and/or stopped down

dyao 11-12-2010 17:07

my 35/2 has no wobble but it has slight play in the focus ring.

Colin G. 11-12-2010 19:20

can someone explain the wobble in simple terms? my 50/2 planar's focus ring has some play, is that the wobble?

FrozenInTime 11-12-2010 19:48

In my case I can pull in and out on the focus mount of the lens and there is movement between the lens mount and the focus ring.
So I can wobble the lens front from side to side, and everything moves except the part of the lens screwed to the M-mount bayonet.
There is enough movement to be seen by eye and to make a clacking noise.

mathomas 11-12-2010 19:58

My 25mm and 35mm Biogons are solid.

My 50mm Planar has just a tiny bit of focus ring play.

My 50mm Sonnar was just great until I banged it against a piece of furniture, then the optical unit became obviously wobbly and rattled when shaken. I took some test photos, and they looked pretty good, but I sent it in for service anyway. $245 later, it's solid as a rock again (as it should be!).


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