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-   -   Quick reminder: Tetenal C41 is dead simple (http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88447)

martin s 04-10-2010 01:43

Quick reminder: Tetenal C41 is dead simple
 
I know it's mentioned occasionally, but some people need a little push. It's really, really easy. As easy as black and white, but somehow a little more straight forward - I'd actually consider C41 black and white film, too. I worked for me the first time I tried it.

With the 1l kit from Tetenal (about 20 Dollars) you can officially develop up to fifteen 35mm films, but according to Petronius you can squeeze out about twice as many.

You buy the kit with 6 bottles and mix them according to the manual in 3 1L bottles, which - I find - is easier than dissolving powder in water. You end up with 3 liters of chemicals (Developer / Blix / Stabilizer).

Now the major difference compared to black and white, you'll have to heat the chemicals to 38C, which requires a precise thermometer. This is no problem at all, even without a Jobo. This video shows the process really well (no rinse after stab. though).

It's faster than black and white (about 12 minutes for the whole process) and you don't have to experiment a lot, the first roll came out perfectly for me.

It should be possible to get 30x 120 films out of 1L, that would put one film at about 50 (Euro-)cents.

martin

btgc 04-10-2010 01:55

Do you use different sets of jugs to avoid potential contamination? Another contact has written how simple it is.

Also, are not C41 chemicals more toxic compared to B&W or this is wrong assumption?

martin s 04-10-2010 02:09

I use three clean 1L Jobo bottles. I was told they are more toxic, but I don't see an issue with that. I simply don't dump them in the drain and take extra care not to get any chemicals on my skin, which is quite easy. No issues yet.

One common misconception I forgot to mention: the temperature doesn't have to be 38C for all three chemicals, only the developer should be at 38C. You warm up the others as well so they stay within a certain range (30-40C I think, nothing to worry about). And since you only develop for 3-4 minutes I wouldn't worry about the developer cooling down either (in a reasonably warm room).

martin

Borghesia 04-10-2010 02:52

I use(d) the excellent Amaloco K54 C1 developing set. This is a liquid 1 lt. set containing already 4 small bottles which can officially develop 6 films per little bottle + 1 lt. Blix.
This in my opinion was the easiest C41 kit, and cheap also.
It's a pity that Amaloco seized to exist.

If my last box K54 is done, I also have to choose the Tetenal kit.
Do you know if the 5 lt. box is easily to divide into smaller batches, so that the unused chemicals can stay on the shelf ? Or is it a hassle.
Tetenal C41 is a powder developer isn't it ?

BTW to keep you liquids at 38C look for a simple Jobo TBE tempering bath, this works for me.

martin s 04-10-2010 02:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borghesia (Post 1301650)
Do you know if the 5 lt. box is easily to divide into smaller batches, so that the unused chemicals can stay on the shelf ? Or is it a hassle.

I think it says in the manual that you can divide it into separate batches. Should be easy, it's liquid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borghesia (Post 1301650)
BTW to keep you liquids at 38C look for a simple Jobo TBE tempering bath, this works for me.

I do have a Jobo processor for developing color, but sadly not where I live right now.

martin

martin s 04-10-2010 03:01

3 Attachment(s)
That's the kit:



Now you mix the bottles as paired on the picture and use water to fill it up to a liter, ..



Now you fill up your sink with hot (!) water...



And you wait until the temperature of the developer is at 38C, usually you can squeeze in an episode of TED. For example the one about pollen.

martin s 04-10-2010 03:02

3 Attachment(s)
I use a digital thermometer, was about 15 Euros at our equivalent of Frys. Works well, I guess you're supposed to meter the temperature of your baking meat with it.



Temperature is up, now you drain the water and get going. Fill in the developer, 10 seconds of continuous agitation, every 30 seconds another 4 inversions. After 3.15 minutes you dump the developer back into the bottle, next the Blix. Same as with the developer, but 4 minutes. Once that's done, you wash the film. I use a hose for this...



Three minutes later you use the stabilizer (1 minute, 10 second agitation) and you're done. No washing after that, just hang up the film and let it dry.



Again, check out the Youtube video. Very easy to follow.

Cheers, Martin

zeroeseight 04-10-2010 03:08

I really want to do colour but the comments about more toxicity have put me off in the past. How important is ventilation? I currently do black and white in the bathroom with the window open, is that enough for safety?

martin s 04-10-2010 03:10

I ate a sandwich while developing, let's talk in a week or two.

martin

zeroeseight 04-10-2010 03:13

Was that with the window open?

Borghesia 04-10-2010 03:17

I think only the stabilizer is a bit toxic. When I pour that stuff in, I do that in the garden or at the sidewalk at my front door :-)

martin s 04-10-2010 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroeseight (Post 1301663)
Was that with the window open?

Yes, I do enjoy my meals with the window open. Especially on such a nice day. No seriously, I have no clue how toxic this stuff is. It doesn't smell nearly as bad as fixer, though, but I'll ask the next time I'm in the shop.

martin

sevo 04-10-2010 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeroeseight (Post 1301660)
I really want to do colour but the comments about more toxicity have put me off in the past. How important is ventilation? I currently do black and white in the bathroom with the window open, is that enough for safety?

Unless you should be a formaldehyde allergic, proceed like you'd do with black and white.

Most current colour chemistry is no more dangerous than black and white - i.e. perfectly harmless unless you drink it or take a bath in it. Strictly speaking, colour is more poisonous, as you theoretically could do either safely with some black and white chemicals. But as all photo chemicals might contain less harmless contaminants, you'll live longer if you treat b&w and colour chemistry alike.

There is a trace of formaldehyde in C41 rinse that it absent in black and white, but we're talking 0.5% here, which is below the threshold even according to the rather formaldehyde paranoid EU safe workplace regulations, unless you should happen to work all day in the final rinse room of a large scale lab.

Sevo

petronius 04-10-2010 04:45

I found it very necessary to give the films enough blix time, especially when using it for more than the recommended number of rolls.

Speaking about toxic substances: The toys we played with in the late 60s might have had more of them than the C41 kit. Im really messy in the lab and get skin contact with the chemicals quite often; up to this moment my behaviour is still ...ahem... normal.

By the way, great workshop photos, martin!

youngmrcurtis 04-10-2010 05:14

I have used tetenal chems, and they seemed to work quite well for me despite me being completely new to the process at the time. But I prefer the fuji kits, just because it has separate bleach and fix.

John Robertson 04-10-2010 05:42

I think the "authorities" have made people paranoid about "toxicity" I've processed my own films ,monochrome print and reversal and colour print and reversal for nearly 50 years without any such problems. Obviously you do not eat and drink whilst processing, but that is just plain comon sense and hygene. My cats have not developed a third eye or any thing B-))
I even used Cibachrome regularly, my cesspit has not suffered in any way.
Tetenal E6 is equally easy and excellent to use.


P.S. Martin S your processing set up mirrors mine almost exactly!! B-))

Juan Valdenebro 04-10-2010 05:51

The kit is great... I used it for cross processing slide film, and it's the best way to control results with extended development for more saturation and contrast, both of them well received for that look... A lot better than using labs, (a lot cheaper too...) because their way to do it is making film go slower through their machine, but there's no real consistency there... With tanks we do whatever we want, and we really know what was done... About temperature, depending on season, I control it with ice cubes or hot and cold water in a big bowl to place the tank: easy. Controlling temperature manually is very easy...

Cheers,

Juan

Jamie123 04-10-2010 06:06

I started doing bw a long time ago but haven't done it in years out of sheer laziness so I don't think I'll start with C-41 :)

johannielscom 04-10-2010 06:10

I got some funky colors from cross processing Kodak 5071 slide film last week, but the shop told me their lab had announced they would not cross anymore because of contamination of baths. Now that their volumes in C41 are dropping X-processing apparently is something they want to factor in.

So, this thread is bookmarked now, its arriving at the exact right time and I'm all up and ready to try this at home, looks easy as pie indeed.

OP: Thanks a bundle!

roboboy 04-10-2010 06:10

Great post, thanks for the photo-walk through Martin!

johannielscom 04-10-2010 06:13

Additional ignorant question: tanks needed for both B&W and C41, or is swapping okay?

seifadiaz 04-10-2010 06:13

Just wondering, do you need to use a separate developing tank for colour and b&w?

youngmrcurtis 04-10-2010 06:19

I use the same tank for both.

jtzordon 04-10-2010 06:38

How do you dispose of the chemicals afterward?

scottyb70 04-10-2010 06:41

I have both the c-41 kit and e-6 by unicolor. iIused the e-6 with successful results. The manufacturer is only 20mins from my house so I was able to talk to the owner myself. He said the most important part in keeping the temperature spot on is the developer.

You should follow their instructions because they have time and tested them. I used a patterson tank for the e-6 the developer was at 102 f before pouring into the tank. The other chemicals were in a hot water bath. My other chemicals were off about 3-4 degress and I didn't have a problem. It is really cool when you see e-6 transparencies developed.

martin s 04-10-2010 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtzordon (Post 1301717)
How do you dispose of the chemicals afterward?

Usually at the junk yard for a small fee.

I use the same bottles for everything.

Here's my first roll I developed with the Tetenal Kit. It's Fuji NPC 160 (ei 160), expired about half a decade ago. They do have a tint I 'corrected' in some (Lightrooms Auto-WB), Portra NC doesn't exhibit this though, it's definitely the film.











Cheers, martin

t.s.k. 04-10-2010 11:00

Thanks for the thread and short tutorial Martin.
I have to seriously consider this in the near future.

Wondering if anyone knows the shelf life of the the kit before and after mixing.
Are c-41 chemicals more/less prone to oxidation than d76?

petronius 04-10-2010 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by t.s.k. (Post 1301853)
Wondering if anyone knows the shelf life of the the kit before and after mixing.

I have some experience with long stored C-41 chemicals:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...t=63614&page=2

filmfan 04-10-2010 11:53

I find it very easy to get my C41 film developed at Target for $0.95 per roll, but I am going to try this out anyways. Thanks for the "push".

t.s.k. 04-10-2010 13:31

Ah, thank you petronius. The thread and your blog is most helpful.

MatthewThompson 04-10-2010 13:49

Anyone know a supplier in Canada? I've done a lot of searching for home C41/RA4 and it's got to be easier buying handguns.

martin s 04-10-2010 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by t.s.k. (Post 1301853)
Thanks for the thread and short tutorial Martin.
I have to seriously consider this in the near future.

No problem, don't use my description as a tutorial though. I wrote it from memory and there are a few more things to be considered (increase time if more than 4 rolls, add 30 seconds for push process, ... ).

Quote:

Originally Posted by petronius (Post 1301887)
I have some experience with long stored C-41 chemicals:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/foru...t=63614&page=2

Petronius it was because of your thread that I tried it in the first place, so thanks for starting it. After the first roll of NPC I bought a box of Portra, by the way, I'll be shooting medium format color for a while now.

martin

bobby_novatron 04-13-2010 22:54

MatthewThompson, re: supplier in Canada

I live in western Canada, and ordered from B&H in NYC. It was $69 USD, and with the strong Canadian dollar, things worked out about the same. Shipping was $30, so I bought a bunch of film to make the shipping costs more reasonable. Point is: it's no big deal to get the Tetenal kit in Canada. UPS straight to my door, with a modest customs/tax fee.

As a C-41 newbie, I wanted to mention that today was my first batch of home-developed colour film. I was really impressed with how easy it was. If it wasn't for the picky temperature monitoring, I'd say it's almost easier than doing B&W.

A couple observations (and granted, these are only my opinion):

#1. The chemicals for C41 are nastier than B&W. Just a subjective feeling. I've developed hundreds of B&W rolls through the years with Kodak and Ilford chems, etc., but never had such a reaction to these fluids. The smell in my laundry room was so harsh I found myself holding my breath and coughing, despite having a fan blowing and the windows open. The smell lingered for hours afterswards, as well.

#2. I think it's important to dispose of these C41 chemicals properly once they're exhausted. This isn't like pouring B&W developer down the sink when you're done. The Tetenal kit plainly states that the chemicals are toxic and possibly carcinogenic.

Then again, I breathed in diesel fumes on the street today and ate a charbroiled hamburger at dinner time. :)

Mike Richards 05-10-2010 09:16

Tetenal C41 at 86F
 
2 Attachment(s)
Based mainly upon this thread, I got a Tetenal kit and just used it for the first time. My aim was to establish a procedure similar to my traditional B&W processing. I noted in the instructions that Tetenal provided an alternate processing method for 86 degrees Fahrenheit, so decided to try that on the first roll. The method calls for 8 minutes CD and 6 minutes blix. I like the longer times (less susceptible to minor timing errors) as well as the lower temperature (easier to get to and maintain). I'll post a scan of the instructions. I use stainless steel reels, so the method was as follows:

Heated beakers with plain water, CD, blix, and stabilizer in a dishpan with hot tap water to 88F. Poured in the water and inverted 15 times slowly to warm up the tank and film. Then proceeded with the CD and blix -- each with 5 initial inversions and 3 inversions every 30 seconds. For the rinse, I used warm tap water for fill/invert/discard 5 times, then fill/invert n times/discard, where n = 2, 5, 10, 20, 20. This took about 5 minutes. Then stabilizer for 15 inversions. Then 1 wipe with a squeegee and dry.

I was pleasantly surprised with the results; sample attached. I was even more surprised when I found out that I had screwed up the development time. I didn't have my reading glasses with me when I did the work, and misread the development time. So I only developed for 6 minutes. I noticed it should have been 8 minutes later when I read the instruction sheet with my reading glasses on.

My sincere thanks to Martin and the others who have contributed to this thread. Hope this helps anyone interested in C41 processing.
Attachment 78739 Attachment 78740

dazedgonebye 05-10-2010 09:30

Ok,
Going to have to try this. 35mm is cheap and easy to get developed, but 120 requires a drive.
Anyone have Ektar examples to show?

dazedgonebye 05-10-2010 09:59

Anyone know where to find the liquid 1 liter kit?

martin s 05-10-2010 10:11

I'm glad more and more are trying it. I'm through with my first 1l Kit, I didn't exhaust the chemicals but decided to stop using them at roll 20 (rollfilm) and 5 rolls of 35mm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazedgonebye (Post 1323134)
Ok,
Going to have to try this. 35mm is cheap and easy to get developed, but 120 requires a drive.
Anyone have Ektar examples to show?

I have some Ektar but didn't shoot any yet. I can supply some examples in probably two or three weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazedgonebye (Post 1323151)
Anyone know where to find the liquid 1 liter kit?

In Germany Foto Impexx sells the Liquid Tetenal Kit. Probably not worth the shipping costs though.

martin

Gradskater 05-10-2010 10:12

ektar
 
This is ektar in the unicolor 1L C-41 kit. I got about 30 good rolls from my last batch (rated for 15). The chemicals are kept in airtight containers. Very simple, easy as black and white like everyone is saying. I wear latex gloves and work near an open window.

I was tired of the local developers scratching my film, so I decided to do it myself.


j_fletcher 05-10-2010 10:15

Martin, great thread, thanks for sharing! I'm going to buy a kit and give it a go. Excellent colours in your results by the way. Now where did i stash that colour film...

j_fletcher 05-10-2010 10:20

Would anyone want this thread as a sticky? I thing the how-to picture guide looks really useful. (Just a thought.)


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